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Who holds the Referees Accountable??

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01-24-2012, 12:26 AM
  #1
jg729
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Who holds the Referees Accountable??

Serious question.

I've always wanted a performance metric/assessment for each referee at the end of the game. An independent panel judges the referees on:

- All calls made
- Possible calls missed
- How they handled player confrontations & other situations

This assessment is made public. At the end of the season tally up the score, and the reward the best refs.

This is a billion-dollar business, how do we know we don't have another Tom Donahue situation going on behind closed doors? What makes the Refs themselves so special?

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01-24-2012, 12:33 AM
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I don't think they are the reason for our loss. But I think they are the reason the score was so lopsided.

The reason we lost is because of our offense and our D. Our PP struggled, our PK struggled. We looked tired.

I still do think Refs need to be held accountable for **** shows like tonight.

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01-24-2012, 12:33 AM
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DylanSensFan
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How much does an NHL ref make?

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01-24-2012, 12:34 AM
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NHL seems deadset on handling things internally when it comes to officiating. I'm fairly certain that the process established involves the Head of Discipline and a panel, but beyond that I haven't any idea.

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01-24-2012, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
How much does an NHL ref make?
On avg. around 175-200k. That's BS!! Making the same as a doctor??

I would be ok with that salary if there is a public performance assessment for each referee. At the end of the year, fire the bottom 10% (or demote them to AHL).

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01-24-2012, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jg729 View Post
On avg. around 175-200k. That's BS!! Making the same as a doctor??

I would be ok with that salary if there is a public performance assessment for each referee. At the end of the year, fire the bottom 10% (or demote them to AHL).
To referee at the highest level of hockey, they ought to make that much. Whether O'Rourke deserves it is another question but unless there's good money in it, you have to know that no one would try to be a professional ref.

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01-24-2012, 12:41 AM
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jg729
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Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
How much does an NHL ref make?
I mean com'on. How hard is it to memorize 100 pages of rules (of which 90% you know already)? Then be able to skate up and down the ice during the game, and once in a while jump in between players?

I bet 75% of the posters on this board can do. 175k/year, B*ll****!!

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01-24-2012, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jg729 View Post

I bet 75% of the posters on this board can do. 175k/year, B*ll****!!
no. I doubt 90% of this board could officiate a high level of pee wee. You have no clue what you are talking about. NHL officials have one of the most difficult jobs in the world. Go to bed.

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01-24-2012, 12:52 AM
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ShotDownCrosby
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I am not saying they don't deserve that amount of money. But if you had a doctor **** up this much, they'd lose their license.

I just think there needs to be a form of accountability. Of course one mistake doesn't make you crappy, but the volume of mistakes tonight is uncalled for.

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01-24-2012, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
NHL officials have one of the most difficult jobs in the world. Go to bed.
Please elaborate. From what I saw tonight, those d-bags deserve to get paid 100-120k tops. Keep in mind they also get summers off.

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01-24-2012, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
NHL officials have one of the most difficult jobs in the world.
uhhhh....?

I could probably spend all night for the next 6 hours listing more difficult jobs...

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01-24-2012, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jg729 View Post
Please elaborate. From what I saw tonight, those d-bags deserve to get paid 100-120k tops. Keep in mind they also get summers off.
Go to a game and sit in the 100 level. The speed at which this game is played is so intense and nothing like on TV. Just to keep up with the play physically is a chore, then you have to have the mental capacity to process EVERYTHING happening in the game around you. Believe me, the game doesn't look the same from ice level. Everything happens in fractions of seconds and they don't have the tool of slow motion instant replay. There is no time to make real decision, they just react much like players.

If you've never been a ref, its difficult to understand.

I'm not making excuses for these guys tonight, they were awful. But an NHL official's job in ridiculously hard. Complaining that they make a few hundred thousand dollars when they are at the pinnacle of their profession makes little sense.

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01-24-2012, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jg729 View Post
On avg. around 175-200k. That's BS!! Making the same as a doctor??

I would be ok with that salary if there is a public performance assessment for each referee. At the end of the year, fire the bottom 10% (or demote them to AHL).
So, being English I don't know a Doctor's salary, but the likes of Shawn Thornton are on 3 TIMES AS MUCH AS A DOCTOR?!?!?!

And that's fine in your eyes... all sports face the same problem, players/coaches/managers/officials, they're all overpaid for what they do.

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01-24-2012, 06:21 AM
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Oh good, it's the weekly referees-aren't-held-accountable-and-I-know-this-because-they-don't-make-it-public thread.

If you think the referees are in no way held accountable for their errors, simply because they aren't tarred and feathered by the league, I don't know where to start with you.

And for those of you comparing an error by a referee to an error made by a doctor, I'm surprised you have enough intelligence to tie your shoes without drooling all over yourselves.

Seriously, stop crying.

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01-24-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Go to a game and sit in the 100 level. The speed at which this game is played is so intense and nothing like on TV. Just to keep up with the play physically is a chore, then you have to have the mental capacity to process EVERYTHING happening in the game around you. Believe me, the game doesn't look the same from ice level. Everything happens in fractions of seconds and they don't have the tool of slow motion instant replay. There is no time to make real decision, they just react much like players.

If you've never been a ref, its difficult to understand.

I'm not making excuses for these guys tonight, they were awful. But an NHL official's job in ridiculously hard. Complaining that they make a few hundred thousand dollars when they are at the pinnacle of their profession makes little sense.
No doubt, but there's 4 of them on the ice.....4

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01-24-2012, 08:33 AM
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Yes, the refs were brutal, but come on. It's not an easy job, by any stretch of the imagination. The speed of the game, at ice level is ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that teh refs don't have the benefit of instant replay. They have a split second to make a decision, and if they don't, the play has moved on and it's already too late because they have to stay in the moment. They can't stop and ponder for 3 or 4 seconds because the game moves so fast that they might miss something else.

Every NHL ref has to be incredibly fit in order to keep up with the flow of the game. These guys work out all the time, and often have to work through injuries because there isn't an easy way to replace them by calling someone up.

Also, NHL referees are responsible for booking their own flights, and they pay for them out of their own pocket. That's why they make so much money. I'm sure a lot of it is considered a busienss expense and they can claim it on tehir taxes, but that doens't take away from the fact that they are paying their own way.

Also, not to burst your bubbles, but NHL referees, at least the top ones, make $275K...if not more. I'm not going to make any comment on the value they provide for that salary, but it is what it is. Complaining on a message board isn't going to change it, nor will comparing them to doctors. They are completely different professions. If people paid big bucks to sit and watch surgeries live, I'm sure there would be some rockstar doctors making millions.

As for being held accountable, I'm sure it happens if someone really blows a call, or a game, and there is a review of all of the referees at the end of the season and the best are chosen to ref in the playoffs...with the best of the best advancing in each round. We can all be pretty sure that O'Rourke isn't going to get many playoff games, if any at all. He'll be with the loser refs getting an early tee-time.

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01-24-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upgrayedd View Post
No doubt, but there's 4 of them on the ice.....4
But only 2 are allowed to call minor penalties...other than delay of game and too many men on the ice.
A linesman isn't going to make a call on a slashing/tripping play.

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01-24-2012, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Harf View Post
But only 2 are allowed to call minor penalties...other than delay of game and too many men on the ice.
A linesman isn't going to make a call on a slashing/tripping play.
True but he or she can give their opinion to the official calling the penalties, watching a lot of hockey i tend to notice the Canadian teams get screwed a lot whether this can be backed up by numbers is another story, regardless SOME of the reffing this year has been extremely odd, ditto for the post game discipline

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01-24-2012, 08:54 AM
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01-24-2012, 09:01 AM
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Dean Vernon
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There is no doubt that NHL reffing overall is among the worst in pro sports world wide.

There is absolutely no consistency, there are obvious make up calls. Refs calling out players, telling players that what they did was a clean hit but they "were going to get them" (this is from this years 24/7), telling them before the game they are going to get them (Auger on Burrows).

I am not convinced that there is enough accountability. When millions of dollars are at stake, you have to be stricter when judging someone doing their job.

In English Soccer, if a ref made the equivalent **** call as the penalty shot call from last night. They would be stuck reffing the championship, which you could kind of compare to the AHL, for months until they earn a Premier League reffing job again. And to me this is how it should be.

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01-24-2012, 09:05 AM
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NHL ref's are hugely inconsistent, but you face the same problem everywhere...

I ref in GB, and not gonna lie, the service we get from the governing body is ****.

It's the same in the NHL. It's not gonna change

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01-24-2012, 09:11 AM
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Marvelous Manked
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As a referee myself, reading these posts just makes me laugh and cry at the same time.

Some of the senior officials always say "I'll ref a perfect game when the players play a perfect game".

There's no doubt that refs should face discipline (minor hockey refs certainly do). Also, refs should man up and realize that apologizing on an obvious blown call is important. Next time O Rourke refs Ottawa, he should be going over to MacLean and apologize.

But seriously, LOL at this double standard where refs have to be near-perfect and Jason Spezza can go 8 games in a row while playing like complete ****. Both are difficult jobs to get into, and it's okay that we expect the best, but you have to realize that everyone has off nights. Hell, people have MULTIPLE off nights.

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01-24-2012, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upgrayedd View Post
True but he or she can give their opinion to the official calling the penalties, watching a lot of hockey i tend to notice the Canadian teams get screwed a lot whether this can be backed up by numbers is another story, regardless SOME of the reffing this year has been extremely odd, ditto for the post game discipline
What do you mean by "give their opinion"?

When I'm lining a game, I can only "give my opinion" to the referee when I believe that a major penalty occurred. I can't go over (or at least there's no point) and say to the ref "you missed that trip over there".

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01-24-2012, 09:27 AM
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What do you mean by "give their opinion"?

When I'm lining a game, I can only "give my opinion" to the referee when I believe that a major penalty occurred. I can't go over (or at least there's no point) and say to the ref "you missed that trip over there".
Well this is true i believe it to be a flawed system all refs should be able to make the call if an infraction occurs, not that they should be looking for it at all times, however if they see something whilst watching the lines no reason they shouldn't be able to make the call, as for giving their opinion it's more for future calls down the line, i know i would rather hear of my fail's from a co-worker rather than a client, also a good ref in my opinion would value his linesman opinions greatly....i would love to see more ref communication!

Anyways im certainly not going to get worked up over it, sometimes calls go for you, sometimes they go against you, refs have a tough job and should be completely unbiased, so i like to believe!

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01-24-2012, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMonahan View Post
There's no doubt that refs should face discipline (minor hockey refs certainly do). Also, refs should man up and realize that apologizing on an obvious blown call is important. Next time O Rourke refs Ottawa, he should be going over to MacLean and apologize.
Going off topic here, but can you give some insight into what the disciplinary process is at the level you referee at?

I understand completely why the league doesn't publish discipline of officials, but I'm still curious about how the process works - and I'm sure the NHL's process doesn't differ greatly from the lower levels.

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