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Who holds the Referees Accountable??

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:19 AM
  #126
Icelevel
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Collins View Post
I'm not saying they didn't call a pretty bad game last night, but refs face this kind of criticism from every losing teams fans. Hell, the abuse that 14-year old refs get from hockey parents at midget games is disgusting, so it's not like it's solely an NHL thing.

It's easy to sit here saying "they should have called this, THAT was a blatant penalty!" but things happen pretty fast on the ice, and they don't get the privilege of replays. I'm sure every fan base feels the team they cheer for has been targeted by the refs, look at the whining by Mike Gillis last playoffs and how pathetic it looked if you weren't a Canucks fan.

There are occasions where bad reffing DOES change the outcome of a game - last night was not one of those occasions. Poor defensive play decided it.
the senators played an amazing game last night and should have one. did they lose because of the officiating? NO.
Did it have an affect on the game? OF COURSE IT DID.
Would they have won if the game was called differently? VERY POSSIBLY

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:44 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by SensGal View Post
My only beef is that the SAME ref has seemingly been reffing all of Sens games. Are there no other refs???
You think refs are assigned on a day to day basis? Those things are probably drawn up at the same time as the regular season schedule in July/August or whatever.

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:48 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Countdown0 View Post
And yet, the league still hasn't even acknowledged MacLean's statement that Karlsson was called a diver. That referee basically admitted a bias against Karlsson when he said that, and the league should take action. The job of the officials is to be impartial. O'Rourke failed to to this, and so he failed in his job. And yet, he is still allowed to officiate games involving the Sens. I call ********.

ALSO!!!!!!!!! If the refs have a problem with MacLean telling the media that O'Rourke called Karlsson a diver, then they should call a fair game. If O'Rourke called a fair game, it wouldn't have happened. It was his fault. He just doesn't like it that MacLean has the balls to tell it like it is rather than bend over and take it.

A lot of nonsense here. A diver is a cheat who is trying to get calls by faking. Divers make referees look bad, they will definitely NOT be partial towards them. You can bet your ass the referees in this league have a list of all the worst divers in this game and are gunning for them.

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:56 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
A lot of nonsense here. A diver is a cheat who is trying to get calls by faking. Divers make referees look bad, they will definitely NOT be partial towards them. You can bet your ass the referees in this league have a list of all the worst divers in this game and are gunning for them.
Not sure how Karlsson has a reputation of being a diver?

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Old
02-01-2012, 12:03 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Countdown0 View Post
I'm not sure if you're seriously this gutless and willing to let the refs get away with ****ing this team over time after time or just picking a fight here...

Okay, first of all you're right, penalties aren't the measure of a dirty team. On the other hand, suspensions are the measure of dirty players. Clean players don't get suspended, because they don't need to be. Ottawa has had no players suspended this season, and yet we have the second highest number of penalty minutes in the NHL. This means that Ottawa has a very clean team, and yet keeps being forced to kill penalties. Could be coincidence. But the funny this is, most of the time coincidence doesn't happen over and over again. Yet the Sens being hammered by the referees DOES keep happening.

Also, I wasn't making an arguement with the second bolded part. But I was right, because while you tried to argue, you (like the NHL) failed to sweep under the rug the ******** calls, which makes the bolded statement true. You're still wrong, no matter how much your flail around to deconstruct my argument.

Your next point. I'm going to bring up the players anyway. Why should the refs get to keep their **** ups behind closed doors, but not the players. The players are the ones who play the game. The players ARE the game. But the league doesn't try to protect them and the information about their discipline. And yet, the league still hasn't even acknowledged MacLean's statement that Karlsson was called a diver. That referee basically admitted a bias against Karlsson when he said that, and the league should take action. The job of the officials is to be impartial. O'Rourke failed to to this, and so he failed in his job. And yet, he is still allowed to officiate games involving the Sens. I call ********.

Also, it is not impossible to be completely impartial, as legitimate mistakes are not part os being biased. But when you don't call any penalties for an entire game, when you see a trip happen right in front of you and do nothing, when you watch a player get boarded and keep skating by, THAT is part of being biased. I am well within my rights to tell them to man up and let it go, because they aren't manning up and letting it go, which is my entire problem with the officials. I want unbiased officiating, and you seem content with the ******** we're getting. A man doesn't stand by and just take it when he sees ******** like the refs screwing the Sens going down, so you, like the refs, need to man up.

And saying that the refs don't get the bonus if they **** up isn't good enough. You are preventing them from getting more money, but thats not what should be happening. What should happen, is money should be TAKEN from them for this kind of crap. And my fifth paragraph was in no way a worst case scenario, and it was perfectly valid. The refs ARE being allowed to get away with some forms of bias but not others, yet they shouldn't be allowed to get away with any. Its not paranoid, its a statement. If they were biased against a player because of race or religion, they would get their pink slip. But they are allowed to be biased because of what team a guy plays for? Are you really so alright with this being the status quo that you will DEFEND the refs when someone says something about it? Do us all a favor. Don't say anything more on this subject until you get your brain checked. Thanks.
__________________________________________________ _

ALSO!!!!!!!!! If the refs have a problem with MacLean telling the media that O'Rourke called Karlsson a diver, then they should call a fair game. If O'Rourke called a fair game, it wouldn't have happened. It was his fault. He just doesn't like it that MacLean has the balls to tell it like it is rather than bend over and take it.
Ohhh personal jab, nice opening. I'm starting to sound like a broken record but... if you read the thread you'd realize I'm attempting to show other sides to this incident and defend referees as a whole from the wild accusations being thrown around in this thread.
What do suspensions have to do with penalties? You're right no senators have been suspended this season, that doesn't mean that they haven't been tripping, hooking, roughing the opposition, or get caught with too many men on the ice. Let's return to my Boston comparison shall we? I'll throw in Winnipeg and Toronto for free too.
Boston - Minor Penalties Assessed: 194 - Powerplay Opportunities: 170 - ~1.14 Pen/PP
Ottawa - Minor Penalties Assessed: 228 - Powerplay Opportunities: 179 - ~ 1.27 Pen/PP
Winnipeg - Minor Penalties Assessed: 214 - Powerplay Opportunities: 161 - ~ 1.33 Pen/PP
Toronto - Minor Penalties Assessed: 188 - Powerplay Opportunities: 179 - ~ 1.05 Pen/PP
Is there a difference? Yes. Is it a tragically unbalanced one? I wouldn't say so. Not surprising given the young, physical team Ottawa has. Ottawa isn't alone on the bad side of this ratio.

Haha seriously? You sure presented it like one. In the middle of a post that was essentially your argument. Odd that you'd bring up facts as a pure statement but if you say so... The NHL is not "sweeping it under the rug". They're treating this incident just like they do when every other fan base and team *****es about the reffing. Just because it isn't out for the public to see doesn't mean it's ignored.

The league doesn't hide players discipline because, by nature of the suspensions, it can't be done. They wouldn't be able to hide suspensions, so they don't, the players are well aware of this when joining the league and as I said, most likely have clauses in their contracts pertaining to the public display of discipline handed down by the league. People will take notice when a player is absent from a lineup for 5 games for no reason. Not a referee. Furthermore referees jobs are to keep track of the players and their reputations. Nobody has a problem with the fact that guys like Marchand, Burrows, Konopka, Avery, etc. won't get the benefit of the doubt when a call is made against them. Same goes for guys who tend to dive, if the officials as a whole feel
that Karlsson tends to go down easy he's going to have a harder time drawing calls.

Are you serious? You seriously think it is possible for anyone to be completely impartial? Everything, from your history to the way somebody looks, affects your decisions, consciously or subconsciously. For someone this *****y and pissed off about something that in no way affects them, no, you can't tell anyone to man up. Now back to my original post you attacked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskimo View Post
While I agree the officiating has been bad we need some objectivity in this thread. You can't infer why or how the poor games are happening. You especially cannot take those inferences and pass them off as fact, be it in your thinking or in your argument. Reffing has been bad, we'll have to wait and see what happens. Saying the refs all got together and decided to bend the Senators over? That's a little ridiculous...
Where do I say I'm fine with the reffing? A man may not get pushed around, put a man also knows when to SHUT THE **** UP AND FOCUS ON OVERCOMING THE ADVERSITY AND WORK PAST IT RATHER THAN ***** AND WHINE. Which is exactly what I expect Ottawa to do, I don't know them, but they seem like those sorts of guys, and they seem like that kind of team.

In what way was your last paragraph not paranoid or overblown? Bringing race and religion into a conversation of bias over a player's history and tendencies IS NOT valid. Am I pleased with this status quo? No. Am I pleased with one that causes someone to lose their hard earned pay or, worse still, their job because somebody whined and complained enough about their performance? Hell no.

And hey, I'm sure taking personal jabs at me works much better than opening yourself up to more than just your view of the situation.

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Old
02-01-2012, 12:06 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
A lot of nonsense here. A diver is a cheat who is trying to get calls by faking. Divers make referees look bad, they will definitely NOT be partial towards them. You can bet your ass the referees in this league have a list of all the worst divers in this game and are gunning for them.
Wut?

So what you are saying is that Karlsson is a diving cheat who is trying to get calls by faking?

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Old
02-01-2012, 12:20 PM
  #132
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There are very apparent and serious problems with refereeing in the NHL and Gary Bettman and company must accept that there is more than fan partisanship at play here. Whether there are technical issues, improper structure, inadequate training, lack of supervision, a few bad apples or any other excuse they wish to make it does not absolve the NHL head office from the responsibility to make sure that games are arbitrated fairly and as accurately as possible. Ignoring the issue will only make matters worse and won't take it away.

There is no room in a professional sport for petty ref bias and no excuse for allowing it to continue. The NHL is 100% at fault and must act quickly and decisively to bring back media and fan trust in the process. The integrity of the sport is at genuine risk if they allow the issues to deteriorate any further.

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Side commentary:
Some people are of the opinion that any publicity is good publicity. The NHL brass could deceive themselves into thinking that all this talk about the referees is a good thing since it keeps the media and fans talking about the sport.

When the game's integrity is at stake I believe it would be very shortsighted if the NHL management fell into the trap of thinking it won't affect fan loyalty to the sport. Alienating the fan base is a dangerous thing when there is so much competition for the entertainment dollar.

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Old
02-01-2012, 12:25 PM
  #133
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As most of you here i watch probably 98% of the Sens games. I rarely miss a game. Probably because i am 38 and dont go out anymore except for my beer league games...
Anyhow i am 100% positive that anything borderline we are getting called, no matter what ref. And anything borderline going the other way we arent getting the call. If you watch the games you can see this. Theres no question. This has been going on for a number of years now, I honestly believe it started with the Schaefer flag waving from the bench. If im not mistaken i've also heard that the Sens were the winniest team in the league? Maybe not this season but a few years ago.

This isnt just guessing at what the problem is, its fact. Watch the games, its quite evident.

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Old
02-01-2012, 12:45 PM
  #134
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I was going to post that WWE reffing = NHL reffing.

Then I realized that if a WWE ref allowed their own personal bias to interfere with a match, they'd be fired immediately.



So, as far as oversight WWE > NHL.

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Old
02-01-2012, 12:51 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
I agree, Maclean should never have said publicly that O'Rourke called Karlsson a diver. He should have known that would stir up a hornet's nest in Ottawa & piss off every official. He should have apologized afterwards to O'Rourke & maybe this stuff stops. Any further ref bashing in the media isn't going to change this but will cost them in fines & could make it worse maybe even in the playoffs where it really counts. The refs have been terrible but I'm not sure bashing them in the media more will make it any better.
Apologize for a "professional" referee's opinion? Did Paul Maclean interview the ref on his opinions on EK as a player? I thought he simply asked why they didn't call a blatent penalty on one play in which the ref responded he didnt call the penalty because he had EK labeled as a diver and thus he wouldnt be getting any calls from him....is this not what happened?

So in this case the messenger is to blame?

Im tired of all the secrets in this league, i thank PMac for passing on the info and certainly take his word over some random ref

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02-01-2012, 12:57 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
You think refs are assigned on a day to day basis? Those things are probably drawn up at the same time as the regular season schedule in July/August or whatever.
I recall Pierre saying the schedule was drawn up month-to-month.

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02-01-2012, 12:58 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
Wut?

So what you are saying is that Karlsson is a diving cheat who is trying to get calls by faking?
I'm not, this O'rourke character seems to think so though.

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Old
02-01-2012, 01:21 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
You think refs are assigned on a day to day basis? Those things are probably drawn up at the same time as the regular season schedule in July/August or whatever.
Either way they should be switched. Or he should sit a couple of games. Its not like there are no available refs there. Why should someone keep getting their "shifts" when they **** up so much. It is just silly.

I get assigned "patients" but if I screw up, I get pulled off. If I make a stupid comment I get ****** patients for a while.

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02-01-2012, 01:58 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by sanityplease View Post
I was going to post that WWE reffing = NHL reffing.

Then I realized that if a WWE ref allowed their own personal bias to interfere with a match, they'd be fired immediately.



So, as far as oversight WWE > NHL.
WWE refs are part of the show. It's a clown act. They are not referees in the classic understanding of the job. In most matches they are there to incite fans by pretending to be blind and oblivious to the obvious shenanigans of the bad guy. In other cases they are there for comedic relief or draw fan applause when the favored wrestler turns the tables on them. They are actors who play their role perfectly.

When NHL referees blatantly act in such as way as to draw accurate comparisons to WWE refs then there is a really severe problem in the NHL. When I want to watch clowns perform I go to the circus.

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02-01-2012, 03:59 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by SensGal View Post
Either way they should be switched. Or he should sit a couple of games. Its not like there are no available refs there. Why should someone keep getting their "shifts" when they **** up so much. It is just silly.

I get assigned "patients" but if I screw up, I get pulled off. If I make a stupid comment I get ****** patients for a while.
They've switched the ref assignments in the past for one reason or another. I would think if the team had formally complained about a given ref being biased, the league might switch things up until an investigation could be completed, but they can't really sit him without proving misconduct, you have to assume innocence until proven guilty.

That said, I doubt the team would complain formally unless they had some real solid evidence, as it would open up a whole new level of bad feelings from the brotherhood of refs.

The league probably should have been proactive, given the media coverage, and switched it up as to reduce the potential optics of biased officiating from members of the same crew that worked the night of the original incident, but then again, they likely didn't expect four games worth the perception of Sens getting shafted by the officials.

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Old
02-01-2012, 04:02 PM
  #141
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Refs are scrutinized by the NHL quite closely. There is often a ref supervisor in the building watching them, making notes (probably to check replays later), etc. And they're ranked accordingly for playoff assignments.

I'm sure behind the scenes, Murray has complained about this guy. Maybe the NHL will look at the game tapes?

I hope O'Roark misses the playoffs this year. Then Sens fans can taunt him next year in vengeance.

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02-01-2012, 04:14 PM
  #142
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Looks like we can add the Team1200 radio media to those who will not hold the NHL responsible for the biased referees

Case in point:
Listening to the welty crotches on the Team1200 an hour ago and Galley, York and Lloyd all say in so many words that the refs are screwing the Sens with calls and non calls. However far from being incensed at the refs and the NHL for corrupting the games and demanding an investigation they are excusing the refs as being human and blaming the victims ie.. Stache and the players. They said Neil is a diver and that's why he didn't get the call when Kelly interfered with him and knocked him down etc... Instead of being furious at the NHL for allowing games to be decided by the referees they essentially are blaming the team.

Isn't it strange that by their own accounting of events they conclude that misbehavior by NHL referees should result in the Sens having to change their approach to dealing with the refs instead of the NHL forcing the refs to do their job honestly or face immediate firing. My opinion of these guys has dropped a ton. It would serve them right if they were treated as persona non grata by the Sens. Something is very wrong and it wouldn't be a stretch to think that the ownership structure, network affiliations and NHL broadcasts contracts have much to do with their position.

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02-01-2012, 04:30 PM
  #143
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I heard that interview and I was rather bewildered by the admission that the refs will band together as a fraternity and screw a team. Refs don't get no love but they are expected to be professional. Even a hint of personal bias, as is now seen with O'Rourke and Peel, demands a full investigation and it has to be presented to the fans of Ottawa. As of now, I feel like the league does have it in for Ottawa. Makes for one pissed off fan-base.

Bettman, deal with this issue.

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02-01-2012, 04:33 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upgrayedd View Post
Apologize for a "professional" referee's opinion? Did Paul Maclean interview the ref on his opinions on EK as a player? I thought he simply asked why they didn't call a blatent penalty on one play in which the ref responded he didnt call the penalty because he had EK labeled as a diver and thus he wouldnt be getting any calls from him....is this not what happened?

So in this case the messenger is to blame?

Im tired of all the secrets in this league, i thank PMac for passing on the info and certainly take his word over some random ref
Apologize for saying it to the media after the game. Maybe, just maybe, it might have prevented some of these calls against us but at the same time maybe there is no bias & they are doing the best they can & it's just resulting in calls against us. Honestly, I don't know what is going on but I do agree it's been brutal against us. It may or may not have been because of Maclean telling the media what O'Rourke said, we may never know.

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02-01-2012, 04:35 PM
  #145
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Well if the media's not going to hold them accountable, I can draw up the seat assignments for white and black placards to spell "O'Rourke the Dork" in the grandstands next home game.

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02-01-2012, 04:47 PM
  #146
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I think the level this issue has festered to amongst Ottawa fans has now become a sickness.

Refs are held very accountable. There is a lot of money on the line for these jobs and a lot of refs competing for them. As im sure was stated, refs get regular DVD's of the big plays, the things they are focusing on, mistakes made, interpretations needed, etc. And if they want the playoff bonuses, they will please their bosses who want impartiality.

And im sure they've heard from Melnyk and Murray.

One thing we fans i think can all agree on is fans do not have impartiality. By definition. We will think every judgement call should go in our favour otherwise we will think there is bias. The very way we frame our perceptions and expectations highlights the biased lens through which we then perceive further bias.

At least 7 out of 10 times when fans complain about a call, after closer examination, the ref was right

It is to be expected that refs are going to miss several calls a game just because of the speed and difficulty in making calls sometimes. Except every one of those is perceived as ref bias, if the allowance for the possibility that the call was just missed is even considered.

As with judges, there has to not just be fairness, but the perception of fairness. Many of you are accusing the league and refs of bias and unprofessionalism. But in fact, it is the appearance of it you are pointing out successfully, not the fact. Facts here are in short supply.



However, if you are going to accuse me of defending the refs, let me put it this way. if you really think one of the refs that the league considers a good ref, is biased against the Sens, then that is a pretty serious charge. It affects the integrity of the game. And i think you have an obligation to put up or shut up; to right this wrong.

If you are so sure you are right, then every fan should buy a ticket to the next game he refs at, buy a large drink, throw it at the ref as he skates by, and be willing to accept being thrown out of the game and possibly fined. If hundreds, thousands, or even just 10's of fans make this statement, and this better be a very well considered statement, not the typical "we know its not a penalty but we are going to boo the ref anyway to deceitfully try and gain advantage", type of thing, then you will successfully get this issue addressed and this otherwise completely unacceptable action can then be considered acceptable protest.

If you are not willing to make that sacrifice to defend the integrity of the sport we take seriously, or arent sure enough of your position to take that action, then i wish you'd all learn to just shut up and learn to live with the reality that is NHL reffing. And it just seems unfair because you want everything your way.

Otherwise you're a clown for watching it and putting up with it.


Since this sport was created in the 1900's, fans have felt refs have been biased against them. You wont find one season, by one team, in any one year of the NHL's existence, where every teams fans didnt think the refs were biased against them. You will however, find many examples of one game where both teams fans thought the refs were biased against them.

But since the historical beginnings of hockey, fans have had the perception of bias against them by the refs. Every game. Every Year. Every decade. it never changes. Surely at some point you must think, maybe we should stop worrying about things beyond our control lest we become


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02-01-2012, 04:57 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Apologize for saying it to the media after the game. Maybe, just maybe, it might have prevented some of these calls against us but at the same time maybe there is no bias & they are doing the best they can & it's just resulting in calls against us. Honestly, I don't know what is going on but I do agree it's been brutal against us. It may or may not have been because of Maclean telling the media what O'Rourke said, we may never know.
Well said for sure, like most issues like this a la heatley i suppose we are left to speculate forever. In the end i tend to believe it's probably a tame explanation in most cases although we all like to roll the imagination once and awhile!

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02-01-2012, 05:28 PM
  #148
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I tend to think along the lines of how the players and coach seem to. Tough calls, good calls, blown calls, whatever. The power to win and lose the games is not in the hands of the refs. It's in the hands of the players and coaches on our team. Ref this, ref that, ref conspiracy, give it a rest. WE CONTROL WHETHER WE WIN OR LOSE BY OUR PLAY ON THE ICE. Man up and quit moaning...

We took penalties, and they were penalties, and our PK wasn't great. That cost us two goals. Nobody should be waiting for the refs to award us an advantage so we can maybe tie the game or go ahead. The players and coaches know this, they play to win the games 5 on 5, and don't look for extra advantages to win. We lost that game due to our own play, and a softy from centre. Could a few PP chances have helped? Sure, maybe, but I don't cheer for a team that relies on those opportunities to win games.

Listen to the coaches and players talk, they don't lay blame, and it's not because the league will come down on them, it's because it's the cowards way of thinking, the loser's way of thinking. "Woe is me" doesn't win games and it doesn't win championships.

It reminds me of that Olympic women's hockey game years ago against the U.S. where the yank refs called like 10 straight penalties against our women. They just elevated their game an won regardless, that was all class, and that's the focus our team needs to continue to have. As soon as you believe that anyone else holds the power to stand between you and victory, you're lost. This defeated attitude is at the bottom of all of this ref complaining.

Players and coaches don't make excuses and assign blame for lost games, they look at themselves for what they did and didn't do. So why in the world are there so many of you here moaning?

Listen, I was angry when I watched the last game, and I swore just like MacLean on the bench. But when the game was over I knew that the game was lost due to poor PK'ing, a fluky goal, and some undisciplined play. Those things are things that can be worked on, and sometimes they just happen and you move on. Complaining does nothing but make you come across as a whiny baby.

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02-01-2012, 05:50 PM
  #149
Flamingo
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I don't buy this that's-the-way-the-ball-bounces tripe. Announcers and fans of the other teams commented on the same observation for three straight games after the initial O'Rourke labeling of E.K. as a diver, and MacLean's public complaint.

Could it just be confirmation bias? Maybe. I'm not convinced.

P.S. I'm not saying the players should be defeatist and wallow in their frustration. I sure can, though. And the Canadian Women's team did show the right way for a team to respond. But that doesn't change the fact that a penalty is a disadvantage.

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02-01-2012, 07:23 PM
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Tundraman
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If you believe that the coaches and players are providing honest answers today about the referees then you don't understand who wields the power in the NHL.

The Owner, GM, coach and players will be fined if they speak out publicly. They also know that what has happened is just the tip of the iceberg if they say anything else.

Gary Galley already stated on the air that a ref told him that Neil is a diver and that he already told Neil about it. He said that's why Neil doesn't get calls. If Galley wants to retract his comment so be it but pull out today's show tapes. Remember the Ovechkin pitchfork on Neil. Who got the penalty? That's also why he didn't get the call against Kelly in Boston. Add to that what was reported to have been said by O'rourke about Karlsson. Has Karlsson been awarded a call when he's been tripped, boarded, elbowed into the glass etc.. No Nada not a one! Yet he taps Seguin's skate boot on the side and gets called for tripping. That's 2 Sens players we now know from so called credible witnesses who say the refs have biases against. They might choose another word than bias like unsure, suspicious, doubtful, disbelief, unconvinced etc... to describe the refs meaning but the end result is pretty clear. You'd better have no pulse before I call a penalty because you two Sens players are fakers.

SNET showed a few of the none calls in the last game and if they were called the same both ways you might have an argument but they weren't. Galley said that when Alfie was tripped along the boards and lost the puck he accidentally stepped on the defenders stick. Sorry but the guy was reaching out in Alfie's feet and he fell when he stepped on the stick. In my book and in every other case that's called tripping. Late in the game Foligno taps a guy on the side of his upper calf along the boards and they called that a trip. He didn't hook his feet or leg or push his skate it was the kind of tap you see hundreds of times during a game so why was that tripping because the guy lost his edge while turning? Like someone posted before with the numerous attempts to injure successfully or otherwise has Shanana disciplined one opposing player yet for their actions? NO!

Lets not pretend the emperor has clothes on. Only one Sun reporter said it plain without excuses. Everyone else on radio and Tv that I've heard speak on the subject agrees to some extent in their own words that the refs are tainting their calls but in their comments they mostly blame the victims instead of the NHL.

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