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2011 off-season: Fielder to Detroit 9/214 ROFL! Jays sign (P) F. Cordero 1 yr 4.5M

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01-31-2012, 11:36 AM
  #726
topched
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotianhab View Post
I could see Carreno out pitching Litsch for the long reliever spot in the pen. I think Litsch still has 1 more year with options as well. If Carreno doesn't make the team I think he starts in AAA. He'll be one of the first guys called up when injuries hit imo.
I just don't see how Perez isn't going to be in that spot.

He did enough last year to earn an extended look, and for the most part was solid.

I see him being in that last spot for 3 reasons:

1) He's out of options while Litsch and JC can still start in AAA.

2) Thats the last and least used reliever spot, Carlos V will probably see most of the long work, don't know if I want JC withering in the 'pen.

3) Oliver is our only lefty right now, and he's more or less a LOOGY, so we're probably going to want at least one more lefty, and Perez is the only one out of the 3.

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01-31-2012, 11:37 AM
  #727
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True, look at J. Santana.

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01-31-2012, 11:38 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Well thats the blessing of having many options, hell, about the only pro position that is as fickle and unpredictable as pitching would be NHL tenders and the saddest part is, they all the most important part of the team.

Is there a position in any sport anywhere where the risk of injury is so high?

Maybe a couple of NFL positions, maybe.
Most likely pitcher, Pitching is an unnatural stress on the body that they werent designed to do. Every time you pitch at those velocities you are putting much more stress then any human was designed to throw.

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01-31-2012, 11:38 AM
  #729
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I think we're setting up nicely next year to introduce some of those guys into the bullpen.

Santos is locked in at closer, and he'll be an "experienced" one after a full season this year, if it goes as planned.

You'll be another year ahead with Jansen, who could likely take over Cordero's set up role, then you've got Oliver and Frasor at the end of their contracts.

Definitely an area where we could fuse some young talent in, whether its Carreno, Jenkins, even Litsch (if he gets optioned).

We could have a good mix of youth and experience next year.
Assuming he resigns, he's a FA after this season.

You're right though, there are good vets there to act as place holders for the kids and to act as mentors. It'll be funny to see Litsch as a vet for the young guns. (as I hope he stays in the pen)

Did Oliver get one year or one and an option? Or is that Cordero?

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01-31-2012, 11:40 AM
  #730
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AAA, we need rotation spots in AA for the guys coming up. besides whats the point of having him dominate there when he could learn more from the PCL adversity
Thats a good point.

Although I think the only 3 spots guaranteed in AA are Jenkins, Huch, McGuire.

They could send Wojo up but I'd like him to stay in Dunedin for another half season.

Who else?

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01-31-2012, 11:41 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Thats a good point.

Although I think the only 3 spots guaranteed in AA are Jenkins, Huch, McGuire.

They could send Wojo up but I'd like him to stay in Dunedin for another half season.

Who else?
Still too early for Syndergaard?

And I believe Oliver is signed with a club option for 2013

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01-31-2012, 11:41 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Scotianhab View Post
I could see Carreno out pitching Litsch for the long reliever spot in the pen. I think Litsch still has 1 more year with options as well. If Carreno doesn't make the team I think he starts in AAA. He'll be one of the first guys called up when injuries hit imo.
I think Carreno's too good to be the long man. Id rather him in high leverage situations.

And he won't make it. Perez will make it ahead of him and there's no guarantee of that as it'll be him and Litsch battling for the last spot. Perez could have the inside track though since he's out of options

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01-31-2012, 11:42 AM
  #733
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If the old man was still alive, the Jays probably spend on FA's.
NOW THAT! is a very thought provoking question.

I would have to say i doubt it, in the last 10 years we have been in the top 15 of spending, what, twice, and just barely for that matter and thats not saying much.

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01-31-2012, 11:44 AM
  #734
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Still too early for Syndergaard?

And I believe Oliver is signed with a club option for 2013
WAYYYYY too early for Syndergaard. He hasn't even pitched a full season yet.

He'll start in Lansing and could if he has a great year pull a Huch and make it to AA for the last handfull of starts.

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01-31-2012, 11:44 AM
  #735
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Don't understand the point I assume?

A city with lots of people doesn't mean your a big market, only when the large population supports the team emphatically are you a big market.
Thats not what 'large market' means at all.

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01-31-2012, 11:46 AM
  #736
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Thats a good point.

Although I think the only 3 spots guaranteed in AA are Jenkins, Huch, McGuire.

They could send Wojo up but I'd like him to stay in Dunedin for another half season.

Who else?
Wojciechowski and im not sure who else, probably some older guy from high A that had a good year last year, I just think Carreno is to old for AA and it wouldn't really help him as much as facing better competition would.

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01-31-2012, 11:48 AM
  #737
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Anybody think that the promotion of Pete Walker as BP coach is going to have an influence on those final choices for the 'pen given that he knows the guys at AA well?

Maybe he's a big JC fan?

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01-31-2012, 11:48 AM
  #738
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What the hardcore fans do not realize is that without the casual fans involvement this team will never get enough attendance at the ballpark to provide Rogers a reason to increase payroll. What rogers does not understand is fans will not show up with the mediocre team that is put on the field. You can only sell hope for so long before fans see thru that message. You can only tell a fan wait for the next wave of prospects they are the ones to lead this team back to the playoffs.

So how did Green Delgado, Russ Adams, Hill, Lind done so far bringing this team to the playoffs.
And how did big name free agent signings like Clemens, Canseco, Koskie, Burnett, Ryan and Thomas do? Its not like the Jays of the mid-late 2000's had $50 million payrolls. And frankly, no one came out to see them either.

The Jays will draw the casual fan back by winning, not by signing big name free agents. When the Jays signed Clemens, no one cared when they were 25 games behind the Yankees in August. When the Jays made all their moves in the offseason of '05, no one cared when they got swept out of New York in early August and were 8 games back of the wildcard. When the Jays signed Thomas, no one cared even when they were 5 games back of the wildcard at the start of September.

Five years ago, the Jays were "selling hope" with a major league roster that was just not good enough to compete at the Major League level and minimal re-inforcements coming from the minor leagues. Now, they are doing the same with a similar major league roster and a ton of re-inforcements from the minor leagues. I understand that the "casual fan" doesn't really appreciate that and they would be better served with us throwing money around, but frankly that is stupid. Hell I remember the casual Blackhawk fan (all three of them) complaining about the Hawks trading Robert Lang and his $4 mil cap hit before the '08-'09 season because some random young guy named Dave Bolland would have to step up and become a NHL centre. The amount of money you spend doesn't equal success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo
For those that want to cry about the Wells contract, PF comes in with a much stronger resume and plays a position that offers less wear and tear.

Once bit , twice shy.
Prince Fielder WAR, 2008-2011: 17.0
Vernon Wells WAR: 2003-2006: 16.8

Not that much stronger, and I'd say his weight problems offset the wear and tear (not to mention its excessively easier to find a 1B who can hit and not field compared to a CF that can do both).

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01-31-2012, 11:49 AM
  #739
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Well thats the blessing of having many options, hell, about the only pro position that is as fickle and unpredictable as pitching would be NHL tenders and the saddest part is, they all the most important part of the team.

Is there a position in any sport anywhere where the risk of injury is so high?

Maybe a couple of NFL positions, maybe.
Running Back average career is what? Few years?

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01-31-2012, 11:50 AM
  #740
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Most likely pitcher, Pitching is an unnatural stress on the body that they werent designed to do. Every time you pitch at those velocities you are putting much more stress then any human was designed to throw.
I'd have to agree , but i think there still might be room for debate there if you break it down to %s, how many players play that positon, how many get hurt.

On the whole there are less QBs on the DL but i hazard to guess that the % of QBs is higher on the DL.

Maybe we should raise the mound back up and help the pitchers a little, maybe they would be less likely to blow themselves up for the big contract.

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01-31-2012, 11:52 AM
  #741
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NOW THAT! is a very thought provoking question.

I would have to say i doubt it, in the last 10 years we have been in the top 15 of spending, what, twice, and just barely for that matter and thats not saying much.
He was the guy who was ready to give Wells 7/126, opened the wallet for Ryan and Burnett and really wanted a WS title. He's basically like Illitch. The guy was at every presser for the Jays at all times.

He would have liked the way the team is going now.

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01-31-2012, 12:10 PM
  #742
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I think Carreno's too good to be the long man. Id rather him in high leverage situations.

And he won't make it. Perez will make it ahead of him and there's no guarantee of that as it'll be him and Litsch battling for the last spot. Perez could have the inside track though since he's out of options
Didn't know Perez was out of options. Makes this situation all the more interesting. Perez impressed me last year, both in the pen and as a starter. The battle will be between Listch and Perez, however I'd prefer Perez just for the option of having another lefty. I suspect they're going to run with McGowen for the first few weeks to see how he handles a regular starter work load. If he falters, or gets injured, that's where Litsch can step in. I don't like players switching from pen to the rotation during the year and so I'd much rather prefer Perez in the pen permanently, with guys like Drabek/Litsch/McGowen holding down the #5 spot in the rotation.

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01-31-2012, 12:15 PM
  #743
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The more you hear AA and Farrel talk, the more it becomes obvious that Drew Hutchison has a VERY good chance to make this rotation out of spring training. AA has been gushing over him all offseason and did so again today on the fan and Farrel said many similar things last night.

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01-31-2012, 12:17 PM
  #744
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Didn't know Perez was out of options. Makes this situation all the more interesting. Perez impressed me last year, both in the pen and as a starter. The battle will be between Listch and Perez, however I'd prefer Perez just for the option of having another lefty. I suspect they're going to run with McGowen for the first few weeks to see how he handles a regular starter work load. If he falters, or gets injured, that's where Litsch can step in. I don't like players switching from pen to the rotation during the year and so I'd much rather prefer Perez in the pen permanently, with guys like Drabek/Litsch/McGowen holding down the #5 spot in the rotation.
Litsch is a afterthought at this point.

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01-31-2012, 12:20 PM
  #745
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Litsch is a afterthought at this point.
It does seem that way. Doesn't really have a place in the long term or even mid term plans for the team. I like him for his versatility, but other than that, there's nothing he has that guys like Perez/CV/Carreno don't, other than experience.

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01-31-2012, 12:32 PM
  #746
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It will be a interesting predictament if both Hutchison and Drabek have fantastic training camps and Cecil and McGowen dont.

I wonder if they would have the balls to start the year with a rotation of Romero - Morrow - Alvarez - Drabek - Hutchison

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01-31-2012, 12:36 PM
  #747
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It will be a interesting predictament if both Hutchison and Drabek have fantastic training camps and Cecil and McGowen dont.

I wonder if they would have the balls to start the year with a rotation of Romero - Morrow - Alvarez - Drabek - Hutchison
Yikes, potential galore. I don't know about for the full season, but the first couple of weeks would be awesome to watch. That is, before batters figure them out and force them to adapt. I fully expect Drabek to be in the rotation by the end of the year.

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01-31-2012, 12:38 PM
  #748
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Yikes, potential galore. I don't know about for the full season, but the first couple of weeks would be awesome to watch. That is, before batters figure them out and force them to adapt. I fully expect Drabek to be in the rotation by the end of the year.
Yep its risky but I would imagine in a perfect world thats what they would hope the rotation would be by midseason unless they have totally given up on Drabek which I highly doubt. If all our pitchers have good spring trainings then we are certainly going to have a good problem on our hands.

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01-31-2012, 12:40 PM
  #749
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I just keep ignoring his/the organizations points? HRMM was it not our top brass tonight boasting that we will have muti PO appearances during the life of PFs contract?

Do you not think that a power bat at such a young age like PF would bring us one step closer to this winning this you mentioned?

Or are we to only spend on such a rare chance , when someone can guaranty such a signing brings a championship and the vast financial rewards that go with it? sounds cheap to me.
Oh my god. You just did it again. Did you actually listen to AA's interview on PTS last week? He gives our logical reasons for his conduct and you just ignore them and come up with crazy theories.

Do you not understand signing PF costs alot of money? Do you not understand that if they spend on Fielder it limits their ability to spend elsewhere? Do you realize the Jays were 5th in the AL in runs scored last year? They were 4th (1 behind 3rd) in runs allowed. Your genius idea is to bring in more offence. You would sure make a great GM.

Of course, you have this magical theory that Rogers is keeping the payroll down. That all those Rogers executives have no idea about investing. The idea of putting money into something to get more money back is a foreign idea to them. We should listen to you because spending has sure made the Leafs make the playoffs.

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01-31-2012, 12:41 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Jaysfanatic View Post
He was the guy who was ready to give Wells 7/126, opened the wallet for Ryan and Burnett and really wanted a WS title. He's basically like Illitch. The guy was at every presser for the Jays at all times.

He would have liked the way the team is going now.
He might have even gone after PF.

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