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Old
01-26-2012, 12:41 PM
  #1
IV XIV XCI
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OT: Director of amateur scouting since 2001

Hi guys.

I'm trying to gather some information for a study and have had some challenges getting good info on my google searches. Hoping you can help.

I'm looking to find each teams director of amateur scouting since 2001.

From the Rangers site I've found this list but cant tell who the director of amateur scouting is:

Larry Bernard
Rich Brown
Brendon Clark
Daniel Dore
Ernie Gare
Tom Thompson

If you have info from 2001 onward that would be awesome.

Thanks

Good luck to the Rangers!

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01-26-2012, 12:58 PM
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wolfgaze
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All you need to know is that Tom Renney was responsible for the Hugh Jessiman selection.

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01-26-2012, 01:07 PM
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IV XIV XCI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
All you need to know is that Tom Renney was responsible for the Hugh Jessiman selection.
Lol, that doesn't bode so well for us in terms of his "foresight".... although Corey Potter has been pretty good for us this year (at times).

What do you think of your 1st rounders since 2001?

2001 - Daniel Blackburn (10)
2002 -
2003 - Hugh Jessiman (12)
2004 - Al Montoya (6)
- (from Cgy) Lauir Korpikoski (19)
2005 - (from Sjs) Mark Staal (12)
2006 - Bobby Sanguinetti (21)
2007 - Alexei Cherepanov (17)
2008 - Michael Del Zotto (20)
2009 - Chris Kreider (19)
2010 - Dylan Mcilrath (10)
2011 - J.T. Miller (15)

You guys are one of only 2 teams that selected more than one goalie in the first round since 2001. Can you guess the other team to do so?

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01-26-2012, 01:50 PM
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Thordic
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Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
You guys are one of only 2 teams that selected more than one goalie in the first round since 2001. Can you guess the other team to do so?
In all fairness, we didn't have a hell of a lot of choice.

Richter was starting to fall apart, so we drafted Blackburn to take his place. Blackburn was a legit goalie prospect, but then had his freak injury. Then we were staring at a bare cupboard, so we drafted Montoya as Lundqvist was still overseas and it was far too soon to predict the level he'd be playing at now. Also, we had two picks that year and picked up Korpikoski later in the round. That was a pretty bad draft so even in hindsight, Montoya wasn't a terrible pick (not that he worked out for us, but aside from a few exceptions, there wasn't any obvious choices that make Montoya look like a boneheaded pick).

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01-26-2012, 02:01 PM
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Renney's title was director of player personnel. He ran the Rangers scouting department from 2000-01-2002-03. Renney left scouting to be an assistant coach for Sather. Maloney had input on the selections.

The Rangers never replaced Renney for 2003-04. Maloney was the AGM and he would scout the amateur players along with Renney. Maloney ran the 2004 draft. He selected Montoya because Blackburn's career was over after he hurt his shoulder lifting weights.

Gordie Clark was elevated to Head Amateur scout from pro scout in 2005. Renney was named Rangers head coach in 2004 so they needed a replacement. Coaching didn't appear to be a long term plan for Renney. He helped out Slats in 03-04 and then replaced Slats before the trade deadline. Sather wanted Renney to be the head coach and allowed him to hire his own assistants which wasn't the norm for Sather. Renney did some scouting during the lockout.

Clark has run the amateur scouting department since 2005. Maloney had some input in the selections before he left for PHX in 2007. When Maloney left,Clark was elevated to Director of Player Personnel. Jim Hammett was named head amateur scout. He had that position for just 1 year before going to TB.

Jeff Gorton was elevated to assistant director of player personnel in 2008. He joined the NYR in 2007 as a pro scout. Gorton helped Clark run the scouting department.

Gorton was promoted to AGM last summer. Gorton retained his personnel duties. He negotiates all contracts. CBA stuff. Has input on trades. Clark still runs the scouting department.

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01-26-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
Lol, that doesn't bode so well for us in terms of his "foresight".... although Corey Potter has been pretty good for us this year (at times).

What do you think of your 1st rounders since 2001?

2001 - Daniel Blackburn (10)
2002 -
2003 - Hugh Jessiman (12)
2004 - Al Montoya (6)
- (from Cgy) Lauir Korpikoski (19)
2005 - (from Sjs) Mark Staal (12)
2006 - Bobby Sanguinetti (21)
2007 - Alexei Cherepanov (17)
2008 - Michael Del Zotto (20)
2009 - Chris Kreider (19)
2010 - Dylan Mcilrath (10)
2011 - J.T. Miller (15)

You guys are one of only 2 teams that selected more than one goalie in the first round since 2001. Can you guess the other team to do so?
The back half of that list is positively putrid. It should give pause to anyone that would like to wax poetic on the good job Sather has done the last few years. With so little return on 1st round picks the first half of the decade it is a minor miracle the Rangers are contenders for anything.

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Old
01-26-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miamipuck View Post
The back half of that list is positively putrid. It should give pause to anyone that would like to wax poetic on the good job Sather has done the last few years. With so little return on 1st round picks the first half of the decade it is a minor miracle the Rangers are contenders for anything.
As an outsider looking in (although I do happen to like the Rangers), I was wondering the same thing. "How are they so good right now"? Obviously your goaltending is outstanding but it seems like you guys are tight in all areas.

I suppose this is what happens when you have the allure of NYC (and $$$) to draw in big UFA's. Gaborik and Richards are nice pieces.

I long for the day when the Oilers playing at a level that appeals to free agents enough to compensate for the 300 Arctic days per year the city enjoys

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01-26-2012, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
Lol, that doesn't bode so well for us in terms of his "foresight".... although Corey Potter has been pretty good for us this year (at times).

What do you think of your 1st rounders since 2001?

2001 - Daniel Blackburn (10)
2002 -
2003 - Hugh Jessiman (12)
2004 - Al Montoya (6)
- (from Cgy) Lauir Korpikoski (19)
2005 - (from Sjs) Mark Staal (12)
2006 - Bobby Sanguinetti (21)
2007 - Alexei Cherepanov (17)
2008 - Michael Del Zotto (20)
2009 - Chris Kreider (19)
2010 - Dylan Mcilrath (10)
2011 - J.T. Miller (15)
Thank God the draft is more than one round. Over these years, I'll be the Rangers have as good as or better 2nd round drafts than any team in the league.

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01-26-2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Thank God the draft is more than one round. Over these years, I'll be the Rangers have as good as or better 2nd round drafts than any team in the league.
This. Hank was what, a 7th rounder? Hagelin a 6th. Stepan a 2nd. Cally, Dubi and others after the first as well. Heck, Girardi wasn't even drafted...and McDonagh was a freebie on the Gomez deal. So while it's true there have been a ton of misses with the first pick, the ones after that have worked out better. And the reality is we haven't had any top 3 picks anyway, so the odds of finding an elite talent with our customary mid 1st round selection wasn't great in the first place. That said, Parise over Jessiman or Giroux over Sanguinetti sure would have been nice. lol And how can you really have known what would unfold with the Cherepanov selection? I was thrilled with that pick.

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Old
01-26-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
As an outsider looking in (although I do happen to like the Rangers), I was wondering the same thing. "How are they so good right now"? Obviously your goaltending is outstanding but it seems like you guys are tight in all areas.

I suppose this is what happens when you have the allure of NYC (and $$$) to draw in big UFA's. Gaborik and Richards are nice pieces.

I long for the day when the Oilers playing at a level that appeals to free agents enough to compensate for the 300 Arctic days per year the city enjoys
I think it's idiotic to look at first round picks isolated from other rounds. Especially during a ten year period when one was killed and one was forced to retire, two kids who looked great BTW.

The draft in hockey is a lottery to a big extent and many also have no perspective of what a good draft is. There can be like ten players in this league who scores a PPG, bu if a tenth overall pick forward doesn't score a PPG he is a bust almost.

Of course any of those drafts where we got multiple players like Hank, Staal, Callahan, Dubi, Sauer, Stepan, MDZ, Hagelin and co are great drafts. If you are getting a player like that evey year that really contributes you are doing a good job.

Like five players like that in five years, like say from the age of 20-25, that's basically a backbone of a team.

Still people complain on our drafts, unbelievable.

I also think Clarke is doing a good job. But his players have basically not even started to make it yet save for MDZ and Stepan. The rest o our almost entirely homegrown team was drafted before him.

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01-26-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
As an outsider looking in (although I do happen to like the Rangers), I was wondering the same thing. "How are they so good right now"? Obviously your goaltending is outstanding but it seems like you guys are tight in all areas.

I suppose this is what happens when you have the allure of NYC (and $$$) to draw in big UFA's. Gaborik and Richards are nice pieces.
I long for the day when the Oilers playing at a level that appeals to free agents enough to compensate for the 300 Arctic days per year the city enjoys
Nope, only one player on the whole roster - Gaborik - might fit in this. Richards draw was Torts, up and coming youthful core and allure of an original 6 franchise (different from what you pointed out as allure of NYC).

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01-26-2012, 04:39 PM
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Speaking of drafting---Gretzky was never drafted by an NHL team--neither were Charlie Huddy or Randy Gregg. Some of the young guys off the 1980's Oilers dynasties were 1st rounders--Coffey, Lowe and Fuhr. Messier was a 3rd. Anderson and Kurri were both 4th rounders. Andy Moog a 7th.

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01-26-2012, 10:59 PM
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well I think that to a certain degree the current modus operandi for an NHL franchise is to tank, like pittsburgh and acquire a series of lottery picks and hopefully have a generational player or two fall into your lap. Hence the focus on first round picks.

I think NY has done a fairly decent job of drafting. Not an outstanding one, just an adequate one. The fact that NY is competing has a lot to do with the other moves that were made.

The Boyle trade

Gaborik and Richards not stinking like many former NY big time UFA signings

The Gomez deal

Someone in NY taking the call on Girardi

and finally I think a big improvement was when the team implemented the same system to be played at both the AHL and NHL levels so players already know the system when they arrive in NY.

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01-26-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
Lol, that doesn't bode so well for us in terms of his "foresight".... although Corey Potter has been pretty good for us this year (at times).

What do you think of your 1st rounders since 2001?

2001 - Daniel Blackburn (10)
2002 -
2003 - Hugh Jessiman (12)
2004 - Al Montoya (6)
- (from Cgy) Lauir Korpikoski (19)
2005 - (from Sjs) Mark Staal (12)
2006 - Bobby Sanguinetti (21)
2007 - Alexei Cherepanov (17)
2008 - Michael Del Zotto (20)
2009 - Chris Kreider (19)
2010 - Dylan Mcilrath (10)
2011 - J.T. Miller (15)

You guys are one of only 2 teams that selected more than one goalie in the first round since 2001. Can you guess the other team to do so?
Korpi is turning out to be a pretty darn good player on Phx who we gave away for nothing and no reason, when he was doing fine here.

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01-26-2012, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
well I think that to a certain degree the current modus operandi for an NHL franchise is to tank, like pittsburgh and acquire a series of lottery picks and hopefully have a generational player or two fall into your lap. Hence the focus on first round picks.

I think NY has done a fairly decent job of drafting. Not an outstanding one, just an adequate one. The fact that NY is competing has a lot to do with the other moves that were made.

The Boyle trade

Gaborik and Richards not stinking like many former NY big time UFA signings

The Gomez deal

Someone in NY taking the call on Girardi

and finally I think a big improvement was when the team implemented the same system to be played at both the AHL and NHL levels so players already know the system when they arrive in NY.
I think its to early to say Richards hasent stunk, honestly he could end up being the worst of all the signings because of the length of the contract. Gabby still has to perform in tough games for me to be happy.

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01-27-2012, 06:38 AM
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Under Clark/Gorton,the Rangers have concentrated on North American players and the Swedes. Kreider. McIlrath. Miller. Thomas. Bourque. Yogan. Fogarty. St.Croix. Traded for Erixon and Lindberg. Selected Fasth. They took Horak and Ceresnak because they wanted to play in the CHL. Pashnin was the last Russian player selected by the Rangers. After his wavering over the summer about coming to NA and Grachev asking for a change of scenery,the Rangers might not take another Russian for a while. They wanted to part of the Tarasenko and Kuznetsov soap opera with the KHL.

There is speculation about Tarasenko and Kuznetsov staying in the KHL

Quote:
The most ridiculous spending orgy ever at SKA this summer? May go for Tarasenko, Kuznetsov AND Semin, may land at least 2 #Caps #StLBlues
http://twitter.com/#!/SlavaMalamud/s...75088099655680

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01-27-2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
Lol, that doesn't bode so well for us in terms of his "foresight".... although Corey Potter has been pretty good for us this year (at times).

What do you think of your 1st rounders since 2001?

2001 - Daniel Blackburn (10) Could have been great.
2002 -
2003 - Hugh Jessiman (12) ugh.
2004 - Al Montoya (6) NHLer
- (from Cgy) Lauir Korpikoski (19) solid player.
2005 - (from Sjs) Mark Staal (12) All-Star
2006 - Bobby Sanguinetti (21)nope
2007 - Alexei Cherepanov (17) very likely to have been an all-star.
2008 - Michael Del Zotto (20) great so far
2009 - Chris Kreider (19)
2010 - Dylan Mcilrath (10)
2011 - J.T. Miller (15)

The rest are too early to tell, so of the 8 picks that were made, two had their careers ended, and 4 are in the NHL. Thats not too bad for always picking in the middle of the round.

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01-27-2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Renney's title was director of player personnel. He ran the Rangers scouting department from 2000-01-2002-03. Renney left scouting to be an assistant coach for Sather. Maloney had input on the selections.

The Rangers never replaced Renney for 2003-04. Maloney was the AGM and he would scout the amateur players along with Renney. Maloney ran the 2004 draft. He selected Montoya because Blackburn's career was over after he hurt his shoulder lifting weights.

Gordie Clark was elevated to Head Amateur scout from pro scout in 2005. Renney was named Rangers head coach in 2004 so they needed a replacement. Coaching didn't appear to be a long term plan for Renney. He helped out Slats in 03-04 and then replaced Slats before the trade deadline. Sather wanted Renney to be the head coach and allowed him to hire his own assistants which wasn't the norm for Sather. Renney did some scouting during the lockout.

Clark has run the amateur scouting department since 2005. Maloney had some input in the selections before he left for PHX in 2007. When Maloney left,Clark was elevated to Director of Player Personnel. Jim Hammett was named head amateur scout. He had that position for just 1 year before going to TB.

Jeff Gorton was elevated to assistant director of player personnel in 2008. He joined the NYR in 2007 as a pro scout. Gorton helped Clark run the scouting department.

Gorton was promoted to AGM last summer. Gorton retained his personnel duties. He negotiates all contracts. CBA stuff. Has input on trades. Clark still runs the scouting department.
Yeah Gorton is a bit of an unsung hero.

People wonder who will be the eventual successor to Sather for the GM position, and it will undoubtedly be Gorton.

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01-27-2012, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
Lol, that doesn't bode so well for us in terms of his "foresight".... although Corey Potter has been pretty good for us this year (at times).

What do you think of your 1st rounders since 2001?

2001 - Daniel Blackburn (10)
2002 -
2003 - Hugh Jessiman (12)
2004 - Al Montoya (6)
- (from Cgy) Lauir Korpikoski (19)
2005 - (from Sjs) Mark Staal (12)
2006 - Bobby Sanguinetti (21)
2007 - Alexei Cherepanov (17)
2008 - Michael Del Zotto (20)
2009 - Chris Kreider (19)
2010 - Dylan Mcilrath (10)
2011 - J.T. Miller (15)

You guys are one of only 2 teams that selected more than one goalie in the first round since 2001. Can you guess the other team to do so?
Don't like the McIllrath pick. Remember watching the draft thinking waht are they doing. They could have picked Brandon Gormley, named the top d at the World Juniors this year, but passed him by, and let Phoenix get him at 13th. From what I read, he (Gormley) wasn't expected be around after the top 7, so many teams figured there were some concerns, but he has showed otherwise, while MCIllrath has struggled. Phoneix said after drafting him that they didn't even interivew him thinking he was a top 5 pick. MacIllwrath was rated as a third rounder going into the draft. but considered to be a tough guy. Real poor pick! IMO.
An interesting bit of info. Gormley is from the same small town (200 people) as Brad Richards.

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01-27-2012, 08:04 AM
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Don't like the McIllrath pick. Remember watching the draft thinking waht are they doing. They could have picked Brandon Gormley, named the top d at the World Juniors this year, but passed him by, and let Phoenix get him at 13th. From what I read, he (Gormley) wasn't expected be around after the top 7, so many teams figured there were some concerns, but he has showed otherwise, while MCIllrath has struggled. Phoneix said after drafting him that they didn't even interivew him thinking he was a top 5 pick. MacIllwrath was rated as a third rounder going into the draft. but considered to be a tough guy. Real poor pick! IMO.
An interesting bit of info. Gormley is from the same small town (200 people) as Brad Richards.
Largely inaccurate information. Which scouting service that had McIlrath as a 3rd rounder? Redline, ISS, CS all him him mid to late 1st round. 5 maybe ten picks earlier than projected, yes. 3rd rounder...no!

Plus...You can't put a pricetag on peace of mind. The Rangers haven't had a guy like McIlrath in the system in over a decade. Thats a long time of show showers to the face and unimpeded power forwards wreaking havoc in your crease. Only in the past year or so did the defense collectively get tougher as a group. But...still none of them are of the same caliber as McIlrath in terms of toughness. Bickel is similar, maybe. McIlrath was voted by the players the toughest player in the WHL. I believe he also captains his team. He's got charachter, he's got moxy. Don't count him out before he gets his turn.

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01-27-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think it's idiotic to look at first round picks isolated from other rounds. Especially during a ten year period when one was killed and one was forced to retire, two kids who looked great BTW.

The draft in hockey is a lottery to a big extent and many also have no perspective of what a good draft is. There can be like ten players in this league who scores a PPG, bu if a tenth overall pick forward doesn't score a PPG he is a bust almost.

Of course any of those drafts where we got multiple players like Hank, Staal, Callahan, Dubi, Sauer, Stepan, MDZ, Hagelin and co are great drafts. If you are getting a player like that evey year that really contributes you are doing a good job.

Like five players like that in five years, like say from the age of 20-25, that's basically a backbone of a team.

Still people complain on our drafts, unbelievable.

I also think Clarke is doing a good job. But his players have basically not even started to make it yet save for MDZ and Stepan. The rest o our almost entirely homegrown team was drafted before him.
For the most part I agree with you Ola, but where I take issue is when you have a selection in the top 15 out of the best players available and you choke your chicken with that selection, well then you better make damn sure that your 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders are all steals.

When you have the ability to take one of the 15 best players you cannot mess that up as often as Sather had.

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01-27-2012, 10:39 AM
  #22
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The Korpikoski trade was one of the few dumb trades made by Sather post lockout. He would have fit in well with this team.

McIlrath was projected to go between #10-#15. He went 10th. He was here earlier this week. The Rangers brought him in since he has plenty of time off with his suspension.

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01-27-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Dodge View Post
Don't like the McIllrath pick. Remember watching the draft thinking waht are they doing. They could have picked Brandon Gormley, named the top d at the World Juniors this year, but passed him by, and let Phoenix get him at 13th. From what I read, he (Gormley) wasn't expected be around after the top 7, so many teams figured there were some concerns, but he has showed otherwise, while MCIllrath has struggled. Phoneix said after drafting him that they didn't even interivew him thinking he was a top 5 pick. MacIllwrath was rated as a third rounder going into the draft. but considered to be a tough guy. Real poor pick! IMO.
An interesting bit of info. Gormley is from the same small town (200 people) as Brad Richards.
Dallas drafted Oleksiak as their #1 in 2011 draft, McIlrath 2.0. I'm pretty sure this was because NYR drafted McIlrath in 2010; Dylan was ticketed to Dallas. Gormley is a good prospect but Dallas passed on him also to take Campbell. I'm happy with McIlrath we just have to let the process play out

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01-27-2012, 01:48 PM
  #24
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McIlrath was the Rangers Beukeboom selection. Given time he could a very valuable player--ala Lucic. Legitimate tough guys who can play top minutes are really rare these days.

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01-27-2012, 02:37 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think it's idiotic to look at first round picks isolated from other rounds. Especially during a ten year period when one was killed and one was forced to retire, two kids who looked great BTW.

The draft in hockey is a lottery to a big extent and many also have no perspective of what a good draft is. There can be like ten players in this league who scores a PPG, bu if a tenth overall pick forward doesn't score a PPG he is a bust almost.

Of course any of those drafts where we got multiple players like Hank, Staal, Callahan, Dubi, Sauer, Stepan, MDZ, Hagelin and co are great drafts. If you are getting a player like that evey year that really contributes you are doing a good job.

Like five players like that in five years, like say from the age of 20-25, that's basically a backbone of a team.

Still people complain on our drafts, unbelievable.

I also think Clarke is doing a good job. But his players have basically not even started to make it yet save for MDZ and Stepan. The rest o our almost entirely homegrown team was drafted before him.
Great post man.

The Rangers are going to sneak up and take a big wet bite out of this league. Three main reasons for that.

1) Drafting/Scouting. A lot of credit should go to Clark and Gorton as they are the stealth gems of this organization, but they have staffed up a solid scouting team. This allows the Rangers to cover all the bases: High Schools & Prep, Junior, NCAA, Europe, AHL, NHL. This is a big part of the reason players like Hagelin, Stralman, Bickel and Woywitka, Prust, Boyle have all contributed this season and previously.

2)Grooming prospects. If you were a prospect and Mark Messier and Adam Graves were standing in front of you, would you pay close attention to everything they said....?? Yes. Yes, I think you would. The University of Whales deserves a lot of credit as well.

3) Coaching and grooming at the NHL level. Not enough can be said about this. We ***** and moan about things like the PP, and rightly so. But Torts and Sully are doing a great job of showing these guys how to play the pro game and succeed.

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