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Thomas Hickey, a bust?

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Old
02-01-2012, 03:08 PM
  #226
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Why are Kings fans defending the Hickey pick? They should be furious.

Wouldn't it have been wonderful to draft Voracek instead and used HIM to get Richards instead of Schenn? Or have drafted Couture and not even needed to acquire Richards?

Wasting a top 5 pick is an absolute tragedy. Terrible asset management by Lombardi and the fact that most Kings fans can't see that speaks volumes about them (and not in a good way).
You or me need a pair of glasses.

This whole topic was already utterly frustrating to read and its getting worse and worse. Now we have come to the point that most Kings fans are defending the Hickey pick.

I dont see that many to be honest, you ?

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02-01-2012, 03:11 PM
  #227
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Personally, I agree that Hickey could still carve out a career as a third-pairing type, I just think it's kind of interesting that a few people (actually, mainly one person) are actually trying to justify where he was drafted.

Any time you don't get a good player (top 6 forward, great third liner or top 4 d-man) with a top 5 pick, the organization should be lambasted for it. There is no way to really justify it, especially in Hickey's case considering that most did not have him as a top 5 pick.

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02-02-2012, 09:10 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Why are Kings fans defending the Hickey pick? They should be furious.

Wouldn't it have been wonderful to draft Voracek instead and used HIM to get Richards instead of Schenn? Or have drafted Couture and not even needed to acquire Richards?

Wasting a top 5 pick is an absolute tragedy. Terrible asset management by Lombardi and the fact that most Kings fans can't see that speaks volumes about them (and not in a good way).
On one hand I am furious about the pick. Anytime a team steers clear of the safe pick (in this case Alzner) and goes off the board a bit, and then proceeds to not pan out as a pick to the level expected, it is a prime target for backlash. I do agree they should have got a better player for that pick.

On the other hand, I'm glad we have a scouting department and a GM who are willing to go off the board and take a risk. That's the only way you get great players unless you are drafting in the top five all the time. Teams that are generally above average teams on a regular basis due it through the draft and do it by being willing to go off the wall with their picks if they really feel the need to do so. DL has shown he'll do that if he believes in it. So far, it's mixed results, but overall LA has drafted well under DL IMO.

It's also silly to say we should have drafted Voracek, Couture, etc. Couture was rated almost the same as Hickey was at the time of the draft. Couture 19th and Hickey 26th on CSB rankings. To be upset DL took a reach on Hickey but then say he should have did the same reach on Couture is just wrong. Why not say he should have went to number 34 (Kevin Shattenkirk), 102 (P.K. SUbban) or 107 (Jamie Benn)?

Back to Hickey, I'll wait until he really is a bust or an NHLer before starting to make my overall judgement on him. Right now he is clearly a disappointment though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
Here is a nice video of his skating abilities and he looks way more physical mature.

Whoever that was he was skating against in the puck race, he sure reeled him in in a hurry. If he didn't bobble the puck at the end he likely would have passed him.

I missed the relay race (thanks for posting it) but I did watch the shot on goal there. I was laughing. Glad he tried the move, but clearly not his forte.

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02-02-2012, 12:24 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
On one hand I am furious about the pick. Anytime a team steers clear of the safe pick (in this case Alzner) and goes off the board a bit, and then proceeds to not pan out as a pick to the level expected, it is a prime target for backlash. I do agree they should have got a better player for that pick.

On the other hand, I'm glad we have a scouting department and a GM who are willing to go off the board and take a risk. That's the only way you get great players unless you are drafting in the top five all the time. Teams that are generally above average teams on a regular basis due it through the draft and do it by being willing to go off the wall with their picks if they really feel the need to do so. DL has shown he'll do that if he believes in it. So far, it's mixed results, but overall LA has drafted well under DL IMO.

It's also silly to say we should have drafted Voracek, Couture, etc. Couture was rated almost the same as Hickey was at the time of the draft. Couture 19th and Hickey 26th on CSB rankings. To be upset DL took a reach on Hickey but then say he should have did the same reach on Couture is just wrong. Why not say he should have went to number 34 (Kevin Shattenkirk), 102 (P.K. SUbban) or 107 (Jamie Benn)?

Back to Hickey, I'll wait until he really is a bust or an NHLer before starting to make my overall judgement on him. Right now he is clearly a disappointment though.



Whoever that was he was skating against in the puck race, he sure reeled him in in a hurry. If he didn't bobble the puck at the end he likely would have passed him.

I missed the relay race (thanks for posting it) but I did watch the shot on goal there. I was laughing. Glad he tried the move, but clearly not his forte.
Couture was a consensus top 5 pick going into the season but got mono in his draft year...he was playing very well by the end of the year though. I remember posting before the draft that LA should draft either Couture or Voracek. oh what could have been...

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:15 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Couture was a consensus top 5 pick going into the season but got mono in his draft year...he was playing very well by the end of the year though. I remember posting before the draft that LA should draft either Couture or Voracek. oh what could have been...
Maybe he was. Esposito was also a consensus top 5 pick. If I recall he was a consensus top 2 pick going into the season. It can go either way but to use 20/20 hindsight and say what could have been is unfair. GM's deal with what they know at the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

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04-16-2012, 07:51 PM
  #231
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Just to clarify two things here, I do think the "bust" label is relative. In some cases, it means what one of the earliest posters said, that a guy is a long shot to play in a single NHL game outside of some odd emergency situation. In this case, I think it's a broader definition than that.

The other thing is if you look at the Manchester roster, who else was going to make the All-Star team? They have a couple of undersized forwards leading them in scoring that were outclassed by other forwards, their goalies were in a platoon again and didn't post the numbers they did last year.

Top 20 is on its way, he didn't drop off the map or anything.

Watching him down the stretch, I will say that he is a very solid AHL'er. Has definitely been a stabilizing element of a turbulent situation this year. I doubt we'll see too much more though, tough draw with Norfolk.

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04-17-2012, 03:35 AM
  #232
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really surprised this kid isn't in the nhl yet

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04-17-2012, 03:44 AM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Maybe he was. Esposito was also a consensus top 5 pick. If I recall he was a consensus top 2 pick going into the season. It can go either way but to use 20/20 hindsight and say what could have been is unfair. GM's deal with what they know at the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSN
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7066

Here's TSN's top 15 pre-draft:
1 Patrick Kane, RW Chicago Blackhawks
2 James Van Riemsdyk, LW Philadelphia Flyers
3 Kyle Turris, C Phoenix Coyotes
4 Karl Alzner, D Washington Capitals
5 Alex Cherepanov, RW New York Rangers
6 Jakub Voracek, R Columbus Blue Jackets
7 Sam Gagner, C Edmonton Oilers
8 Angelo Esposito, C Pittsburgh Penguins
9 Brandon Sutter, C Carolina Hurricanes
10 Keaton Ellerby, D Florida Panthers
11 Ryan McDonagh, D Montreal Canadiens
12 Kevin Shattenkirk, D Colorado Avalanche
13 Thomas Hickey, D Los Angeles Kings
14 Nick Petrecki, D San Jose Sharks
15 Mikael Backlund, C Calgary Flames
Based on the list and who was left, the Kings should have taken Alzner.

I like to compare team drafting records to TSN's list because its a published pre-draft list of basically the consensus scouting community rankings (if such a thing exists). Generally I find the TSN list does pretty well but not always better (note: Couture was 19th on TSN's list and Angelo Esposito was 8th). Most of the major droppers haven't accomplished much - save for Perron.

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04-17-2012, 08:20 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He said it at the draft and it's been talked about for years. BOS, LA and 1 other team felt he was a top 5 pick. It was probably STL because Jarmo Kekalainen loved the Hickey pick, commenting about it during the Blues 07 behind the scenes draft special...


No he didn't.

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04-17-2012, 09:18 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Based on the list and who was left, the Kings should have taken Alzner.

I like to compare team drafting records to TSN's list because its a published pre-draft list of basically the consensus scouting community rankings (if such a thing exists). Generally I find the TSN list does pretty well but not always better (note: Couture was 19th on TSN's list and Angelo Esposito was 8th). Most of the major droppers haven't accomplished much - save for Perron.
Yes, based on who was left on TSN's list, Alzner was the better pick over Hickey. That said, I'd rather have McDonagh over any of the D-men left on that list you posted.

The Kings, and all other teams, don't use TSN's list. They look at it for sure, but they make their own lists and go with them. While I'd like to have seen the Hickey pick pan out better than it has thus far (still not calling him a bust though), I'm glad that the Kings have a GM and a scouting staff willing to go against the norm and draft players they believe in.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I'd rather they tried and failed (as long as they don't fail repeatedly) than not try at all.

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04-17-2012, 09:21 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Knoll View Post
Just to clarify two things here, I do think the "bust" label is relative. In some cases, it means what one of the earliest posters said, that a guy is a long shot to play in a single NHL game outside of some odd emergency situation. In this case, I think it's a broader definition than that.

The other thing is if you look at the Manchester roster, who else was going to make the All-Star team? They have a couple of undersized forwards leading them in scoring that were outclassed by other forwards, their goalies were in a platoon again and didn't post the numbers they did last year.

Top 20 is on its way, he didn't drop off the map or anything.

Watching him down the stretch, I will say that he is a very solid AHL'er. Has definitely been a stabilizing element of a turbulent situation this year. I doubt we'll see too much more though, tough draw with Norfolk.
Frankly to me, this is just your way for defending yourself for calling him a bust in that article you wrote. Based on the feedback you've gained from Kings fans here and on the LA board, we don't agree with you. It's fine for you to have your own opinion, but I do find it odd/sad that you feel the need to revive a thread that's 3+ months old just to repeat why you feel he's a bust.

Find another dead horse to kick.

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04-17-2012, 10:43 AM
  #237
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Kings fan here.

Calling Hickey anything other than "bust" is befuddling to me. He was a 100% waste of a top-four pick. There isn't any argument left. Get over it.

And then get ready for this exact same conversation two years from now, except replace "Hickey" with "Forbort".

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04-17-2012, 10:51 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post
And then get ready for this exact same conversation two years from now, except replace "Hickey" with "Forbort".
I don't know much how Forbort's career has gone post draft but I do remember it wasn't a stretch picking him where they did.

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04-17-2012, 10:54 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post
Kings fan here.

Calling Hickey anything other than "bust" is befuddling to me. He was a 100% waste of a top-four pick. There isn't any argument left. Get over it.

And then get ready for this exact same conversation two years from now, except replace "Hickey" with "Forbort".
Any 1st round draft choice who hasn't played a single NHL game within 5 years of being drafted is pretty much a consensus bust.

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04-17-2012, 11:04 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Yes, based on who was left on TSN's list, Alzner was the better pick over Hickey. That said, I'd rather have McDonagh over any of the D-men left on that list you posted.

The Kings, and all other teams, don't use TSN's list. They look at it for sure, but they make their own lists and go with them. While I'd like to have seen the Hickey pick pan out better than it has thus far (still not calling him a bust though), I'm glad that the Kings have a GM and a scouting staff willing to go against the norm and draft players they believe in.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I'd rather they tried and failed (as long as they don't fail repeatedly) than not try at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post
Kings fan here.

Calling Hickey anything other than "bust" is befuddling to me. He was a 100% waste of a top-four pick. There isn't any argument left. Get over it.

And then get ready for this exact same conversation two years from now, except replace "Hickey" with "Forbort".
#4 overall is too high a pick to gamble on. they would have had Alzner playing for them now if they had stuck to the scouting reports and taken the BPA. this is one reason why teams seldom gamble that high these days. in my opinion only, when you hit mid first round, the draft order seems to change from scout to scout....you can probably gamble from this point on if you choose.

and i agree that Hickey is starting to look more like a bust than prospect.

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04-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #241
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Even if he does make the Chel he's a 3rd pairing defender at best. That's embarrassing for the Kings

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04-17-2012, 11:30 AM
  #242
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Not all first round picks work out. The Kings have done a good job overall at drafting good NHL players. If Hickey is a bust, (there is still time to be a success albeit not much) then so be it.

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04-17-2012, 11:32 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Guardian452 View Post
Any 1st round draft choice who hasn't played a single NHL game within 5 years of being drafted is pretty much a consensus bust.
Yeah, agree. I think Kings fans are clutching at straws. Sometimes bad picks are made, it's no science.

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04-17-2012, 02:08 PM
  #244
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Is he done is the Kings' organization? I would like to see the Isles take a run at him for a pick and prospect.

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04-17-2012, 02:41 PM
  #245
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Hickey hasn't a good pick. I think that's clear.

He's an example of drafting for need in a year that was suppose to be one of the worst in modern hockey history. 2007 was nothing short of terrible. So Kings decide they're going for a puck moving d-man and don't really care about rankings. Hell... when Karl Alzner is the best d-man in a year you're not in a great situation when you want to draft someone on the blueline.

Thing about Hickey is that he could likely be in the NHL on another team. Kings draft heavy on puck moving d-men for the years. Drew Doughty, Vyacheslav Voynov, and from 2007 Alec Martinez, are all guys who play a similar game to Hickey but better. Guy gets beat in training camp (often due to talent but also luck when it comes to injuries) and then never gets his shot.

Sure... I'd rather have Jakub Voracek sitting on my top-9 then Hickey don't in the AHL but hey it's drafting. Not like 2007 turned out bad for the Kings. Picked up 4 players that made the NHL and 3 of them look like their going to have reasonable careers (Simmonds, Martinez, and maybe now King). Not bad all things considered. We ended up getting what we wanted just took a few more years.

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04-17-2012, 09:23 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Frankly to me, this is just your way for defending yourself for calling him a bust in that article you wrote. Based on the feedback you've gained from Kings fans here and on the LA board, we don't agree with you. It's fine for you to have your own opinion, but I do find it odd/sad that you feel the need to revive a thread that's 3+ months old just to repeat why you feel he's a bust.

Find another dead horse to kick.
hickey is a bust relative to his draft position.

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04-17-2012, 09:55 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
you mean Mitchell and Scuderi. none of those 4 listed defesenmen are even close to being as good defensively as Willie and Scuds. An Doughty and Johnson are both better offensively than those 4. So no, they don't sniff our top 4. Maybe not even ahead of Voynov
I hope you are joking.

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04-17-2012, 10:20 PM
  #248
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well kadri busted as well so might as well hickey too?

No I think he can still be a good top 4 productive defense but he hasn't progressed for sure as much would have wanted.

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04-17-2012, 10:22 PM
  #249
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well kadri busted as well so might as well hickey too?

No I think he can still be a good top 4 productive defense but he hasn't progressed for sure as much would have wanted.
Thats putting it lightly. Even as a junior I thought Hickey was terrible. I don't see him as an NHL player and consider him a bust.

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04-18-2012, 09:01 AM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post
Kings fan here.

Calling Hickey anything other than "bust" is befuddling to me. He was a 100% waste of a top-four pick. There isn't any argument left. Get over it.

And then get ready for this exact same conversation two years from now, except replace "Hickey" with "Forbort".
Forbort wasn't a top four pick. He also has two years left at college so unless he leaves early, there won't be a debate then. The debate will start whenever he signs with LA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
#4 overall is too high a pick to gamble on. they would have had Alzner playing for them now if they had stuck to the scouting reports and taken the BPA. this is one reason why teams seldom gamble that high these days. in my opinion only, when you hit mid first round, the draft order seems to change from scout to scout....you can probably gamble from this point on if you choose.

and i agree that Hickey is starting to look more like a bust than prospect.
I agree it is high to gamble at #4, but it's not without president. Blake Wheeler at 5 was a big gamble, but right now looks like a solid pick for that draft year (not for the Coyotes mind you, but in general).

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