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Thomas Hickey, a bust?

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Old
01-29-2012, 09:22 PM
  #151
SFKingshomer
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He won't replace Mitchell or Scuderi, he will replace Martinez or Voynov or be traded. LA's only replacements for Mitchell and Scuderi are possibly Campbell or Muzzin unless they look outside the organization.

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01-29-2012, 09:32 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He won't replace Mitchell or Scuderi, he will replace Martinez or Voynov or be traded. LA's only replacements for Mitchell and Scuderi are possibly Campbell or Muzzin unless they look outside the organization.
He could Replace AMart as a 7, but Drewiskie is already next for that spot this year.

IF VV goes AMart will slide into his spot.

Hickey's chances are getting slim for that offensive role, Scuderi's and WM's spots could be filled by him if he becomes a more defensively rounded D which is what is sounds like is happening in Manch.

All in all, his chances are not that great. Lot can happen tho.

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01-29-2012, 09:43 PM
  #153
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I think Martinez will be traded and Drewiskie waived. Done posting in this thread though...

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01-29-2012, 09:58 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Andrew Knoll View Post
Mitchell missed significant time last year and Doughty missed a few games as well. This year, agreed, they have been healthy outside of Martinez early in the year.
Last year Hickey was still looking to be an elite offensive puckmover. It is only this year he seems to be getting better defensively. So last year they decided to go with a defensive option in Drewiske to replace Mitchell. Matt Greene also missed some time, and again defensive option in Drewiske. When DD missed, they decided to give Harrold some time, as he was the #7 and he was a puck mover.

This year with the Martinez injury they went with Voynov, which is fair enough, he is better than Hickey right now.

That being said, it is a little disappointing that Hickey has not gotten a recall, I am not trying to blindly defend the guy, everyday he seems to get closer to bust status, but I know that he is a great person, GREAT character player and I really hope he does become a player (I've met him once, and know 5-8 people that played with him when he was captain in Seattle and they just rave about the guy)

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Old
01-30-2012, 12:58 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Figured one of LA's biggest haters would come out sooner or later. Doughty is in another world and Voynov put in more time therefore has SENIORITY which is HUGE to DL. Injuries and depth are the only two reasons Hickey isn't an NHL regular and no LA won't be trading him for twinkle toes Hemsky.
Kings hater. That's rich. Considering they are my "B" team for the year. Too funny.

What makes you think the Oilers or any other team would give anything of value for Hickey? Dont you think that if Lombardi could use a piece that he has an abundance of, to address the lack of scoring depth in the top six, that he would do it?

Feel free to address the point I made about Hickey being the only top five draft pick dmen in the last five years to have not played a single game in the nhl. Never mind being a regular or even a first pairing guy like many of the other top five pick dmen have.

Lol that he is held back by the great Martinez and Drewiske.

Even Kings fans must be frustrated that a top five pick hasnt played a single game in five years.

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01-30-2012, 02:14 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Kings hater. That's rich. Considering they are my "B" team for the year. Too funny.

What makes you think the Oilers or any other team would give anything of value for Hickey? Dont you think that if Lombardi could use a piece that he has an abundance of, to address the lack of scoring depth in the top six, that he would do it?

Feel free to address the point I made about Hickey being the only top five draft pick dmen in the last five years to have not played a single game in the nhl. Never mind being a regular or even a first pairing guy like many of the other top five pick dmen have.

Lol that he is held back by the great Martinez and Drewiske.

Even Kings fans must be frustrated that a top five pick hasnt played a single game in five years.
Again. Why would they recall him to ride the pine with Martinez or Drewiskie? He has to beat out 3 stud puck movers who either did their due diligence in the minors (SENIORITY) two who didn't need AHL time because they were more developed. I could care less about your top 5 point. None of those others missed two seasons of their development or had to beat out Johnson, Doughty, or Voynov. Hickeys in his 2nd full season, Voynov spent more time in the minors as did the older Martinez, hence SENIORITY. I have no doubt Hickey will be an NHL defenseman and a damn good one at that. Management still thinks very highly of the kids potential which is why they refuse to rush him or trade him for scraps. I'm sick of this discussion because all I've done is repeat myself over and over but you as well as others are convinced a 22 year old, injury riddled defenseman who has to supplant 3 studs is a bust.

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01-30-2012, 03:08 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Again. Why would they recall him to ride the pine with Martinez or Drewiskie? He has to beat out 3 stud puck movers who either did their due diligence in the minors (SENIORITY) two who didn't need AHL time because they were more developed. I could care less about your top 5 point. None of those others missed two seasons of their development or had to beat out Johnson, Doughty, or Voynov. Hickeys in his 2nd full season, Voynov spent more time in the minors as did the older Martinez, hence SENIORITY. I have no doubt Hickey will be an NHL defenseman and a damn good one at that. Management still thinks very highly of the kids potential which is why they refuse to rush him or trade him for scraps. I'm sick of this discussion because all I've done is repeat myself over and over but you as well as others are convinced a 22 year old, injury riddled defenseman who has to supplant 3 studs is a bust.
I never said he was a bust. But the excuses from Kings homers are lame, and should be called out as such. Cody Hodgson has missed most or parts of two seasons with injuries as well, but he has been able to make the nhl, on a better team than the Kings I may add, and is producing well.

There is no such thing as seniority at the nhl level. Players careers get thrown in the bin on a regular basis because younger, stronger, faster players have supplanted them. The only thing that matters in the nhl is winning, and if a team thinks that a player will help them do that then they are in the lineup. Period.

If Hickey was actually better than Voynov, he would be playing in the nhl and Voynov would be in Manchester. Simple as that.

Besides, I thought you were "done" posting in this thread?

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01-30-2012, 08:58 AM
  #158
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Yea, Lombardi doesn't believe in paying your dues lol.

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01-30-2012, 09:12 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yea, Lombardi doesn't believe in paying your dues lol.
This isnt a construction job. They arent bus drivers waiting for the best routes. If you are good enough, you play. See Doughty, Drew.

If you arent, you ply your trade in the minors. Thomas Hickey isnt good enough.

And he only really missed one season due to injury, not two like you have tried to have us believe. It would seem to me that he has never really progressed since he was drafted. His numbers bear that out.

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01-30-2012, 12:11 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
I use Hfboards but dont pay any attention to their rankings. I base it off watching games and listening to other knowlegdable fans and scouts opinions
Agreed. As someone who used to help in those writeups (albeit several years ago now) the lack of informational data that goes into them is a bit alarming. Unless they've dramatically overhauled the process, I view those rankings with several grains of salt.

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Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
It would be interesting to hear how Marc Crawford and the other "staff" who were a part of that decision remember that decision. Whether it was a concensus pick. Could a scout that was very high on Hickey have convinced the group?
Crawford wasn't involved at all really. You leave the scouting to those who can see the player, so unless the Kings happened to be in another city on an off day when Hickey was playing, which is all very unlikely, Crawford had virtually no input in the decision.

That decision was made largely by Futa and the scouts. DL does hold power to pull rank so to speak, but he doesn't do that that I've ever heard of. Futa was also the one who explained the preference of Hickey over Alzner, not Lombardi.

In most scouting staffs, there is never a consensus pick. Even with guys like Taylor Hall, there's usually someone or a few someones supporting a Tyler Seguin. Even when they publicly say "we made a unanimous decision" they don't. It just doesn't look good to say the staff was divided on the player they got. Guaranteed there was some division regarding Hickey as well.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I wouldn't mind throwing LA a 3rd or 4th round pick for Hickey. Let him develop along with Erixon.
I wouldn't mind saying no to that offer. At this point I'd rather see the Hickey project out to its end, unless he was a toss in in a deal to land a top talent (Carter for example).

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01-30-2012, 12:16 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He won't replace Mitchell or Scuderi, he will replace Martinez or Voynov or be traded. LA's only replacements for Mitchell and Scuderi are possibly Campbell or Muzzin unless they look outside the organization.
Precisely, and "replacing" a No. 7 DMan seems unlikely given where he is in his career, replacing Voynov seems even less likely because he has performed well.

Mitchell, Greener and Scuds are all pretty important players for the team, one or more might become a cap casualty but I wouldn't just assume they are all moving on. Even f they do, as you said, Muzzin is a two-way guy in their system, if they want another player like that or a flat-out shutdown guy, they'll have to look in the FA market or to make a trade.

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01-30-2012, 01:17 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I never said he was a bust. But the excuses from Kings homers are lame, and should be called out as such. Cody Hodgson has missed most or parts of two seasons with injuries as well, but he has been able to make the nhl, on a better team than the Kings I may add, and is producing well.

There is no such thing as seniority at the nhl level. Players careers get thrown in the bin on a regular basis because younger, stronger, faster players have supplanted them. The only thing that matters in the nhl is winning, and if a team thinks that a player will help them do that then they are in the lineup. Period.

If Hickey was actually better than Voynov, he would be playing in the nhl and Voynov would be in Manchester. Simple as that.

Besides, I thought you were "done" posting in this thread?
You can't really compare the 12 forward spots to the 6 defensive spots. Hickey took steps back during his injury and it's unfortunate. He's taking steps forward now but, Voynov is better. Is Hickey a bust? Sure you can say that. Will he be a bust next year? Maybe, maybe not. He has all the talent to make it in the NHL just no real opportunity at this point.

Every prospect is a bust until they make a difference at the NHL level. Regardless, as of now he has definitely not met expectations. If that's your definition of a bust then yes, he is one. I personally think the idea of bust is a silly one.

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01-30-2012, 01:42 PM
  #163
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He will be fine. Lombardi and Futa expected him to take a few years to develop

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01-30-2012, 01:52 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He will be fine. Lombardi and Futa expected him to take a few years to develop
I highly doubt that.

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01-30-2012, 02:00 PM
  #165
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Fact:Thomas Hickey is the only top 5 pick from 1998-2010 drafts who has yet to play an Nhl game.

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01-30-2012, 02:04 PM
  #166
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I highly doubt that.
You obviously never heard him call Hickey a long term project and say Alzner was the better defenseman at the time but Hickey has greater potential. I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over.

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01-30-2012, 02:11 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
He will be fine. Lombardi and Futa expected him to take a few years to develop

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01-30-2012, 03:37 PM
  #168
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With your constant use of nothing but in your post, you are obviously trolling. I hope the moderators also judge you as doing such.

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01-30-2012, 03:45 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
You obviously never heard him call Hickey a long term project and say Alzner was the better defenseman at the time but Hickey has greater potential. I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over.
Just because he said that doesn't mean it means anything now. It's been 5 years. That's an awful lot of "long term potential", don't act like everything is going exactly as DL expected to in 2012 when he made that pick in 2007. Anyone that thinks that wasn't a missed pick looking back is nuts.

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01-30-2012, 04:11 PM
  #170
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With your constant use of nothing but in your post, you are obviously trolling. I hope the moderators also judge you as doing such.
Not at all. I just it humorous that a kid who hasnt played a game in the NHL can be defended to the lengths he is by some, when so many of his peers have. And then of course we have the humorous excuses for it, such as the mighty strength of the D compared to so many other d-corps & players.
All of which leads one to a

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01-30-2012, 04:14 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I highly doubt that.

Hickey was ahead of Teubert on our depth chart. GM's make mistakes all the time, they address need over BPA.


I'm not sure if DL expected him to be this long of a project but Hickey was definately the first pick of DL's "build with character and build from the net out" plan. DL's drafting can be extremely frustrating in the early rounds when he passes on talent for character but it's very sweet when he hits in the later rounds as well. Kings fans have come to accept the bad with the good. So yes the Hickey pick continues to frustrate and yes Hickey remains a longshot, but until he goes "back to Russia" or "to play in Sweden" or hits 24-25 yrs. without an NHL game I wont label him a bust.

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01-30-2012, 04:35 PM
  #172
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Not at all. I just it humorous that a kid who hasnt played a game in the NHL can be defended to the lengths he is by some, when so many of his peers have. And then of course we have the humorous excuses for it, such as the mighty strength of the D compared to so many other d-corps & players.
All of which leads one to a
And that opinion is fine and understandable. WHile I will defend Hickey, I will agree your point has merit.

But it has merit when represent as you did above, not with a string of

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01-30-2012, 04:37 PM
  #173
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When you have a top 5, or sometimes top 10 pick, you HAVE to go for BPA. When you are out of the top 10. Then you go for organizational needs.

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01-30-2012, 04:55 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by bral View Post
Hickey was ahead of Teubert on our depth chart. GM's make mistakes all the time, they address need over BPA.


I'm not sure if DL expected him to be this long of a project but Hickey was definately the first pick of DL's "build with character and build from the net out" plan. DL's drafting can be extremely frustrating in the early rounds when he passes on talent for character but it's very sweet when he hits in the later rounds as well. Kings fans have come to accept the bad with the good. So yes the Hickey pick continues to frustrate and yes Hickey remains a longshot, but until he goes "back to Russia" or "to play in Sweden" or hits 24-25 yrs. without an NHL game I wont label him a bust.
He's not a classic bust yet he can still carve out a decent bottom pairing D-man career. But getting a bottom pairing d-man at 4th overall is obviously a poor decision by an organization. I have trouble seeing that Lombardi passed on Alzner over character issues as well. Alzner captained a Canadian WJC team and is a girlfriends parents wet dream.

Kings fans can argue all they want but at the end of the day Lombardi and co took an unnecessary risk that hasn't paid off and is highly unlikely to.

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01-30-2012, 05:46 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
No they aren't.... do you even know who those defenseman are?
Alzner is a #1 Dman already, Shattenkirk is a top pairing dman, Mcdonagh is a top 4 young dman looking much better than his age.

Get off your Homer chair, those 3 are far superior to Mitchell and Scuderi.
Alzner is a number 1 dman ? lol what world are you living in ?

i know you're used to watching Mike Green play defense but don't let that cloud your judgement.

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