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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread II

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Old
01-25-2012, 05:19 PM
  #76
Leafs Forever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
To Leafs Forever
#51, #78
To EagleBelfour
#57 #72

Leafs Forevers OTC. Sorry for the delay.
Confirmed.

-----

Well there are some other tempting players on the board, but I want to build a certain way this year at the price of some larger steals.

With that, after losing out on Nighbor, I wanted the next big thing; and since Nighbor was so popular, and he had been rising, and all the great work done on him last draft, I felt I had to trade up and secure him.

The Toronto St. Pats are pleased to select: Frank Boucher, C

Frank Boucher is an incredible playmaker, and Sturminator made compelling cases on his placement in relation to his famous linemate (Bill Cook) and other C's (Schmidt/Yzerman/Trottier/Sakic tier). I'll try to bring these up/expand upon them where I can later.

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01-25-2012, 05:22 PM
  #77
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Boucher, this pick is really difficult to make a decision on, I might look into dealing this pick, message me if you are interested.

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01-25-2012, 05:28 PM
  #78
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I've harboured a list of three while waiting to see what EB did, and Boucher was definitely one of the three. Good pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You must have really hated the guys available now to make a trade like this.
The difference between 72 and 78 may be strangely severe...

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Old
01-25-2012, 06:27 PM
  #79
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With our 52nd overall pick the fireworks are very pleased to select defenseman :

Al MacInnis






We feel MacInnis is the last defenseman in the Pilote,Cleghorn,Seibert,Horton, Stevens and Pronger tier. His all around game often gets overshandowed by his "Worlds hardest shot" (Which I knew I compared to XXXXX two years ago).


I look forward to compiling a bio on MacInnis, here is a quick bio in the meantime:



-12X ASG participant
-1988-89 Conn Smythe Winner
-1998-99 Norris Winner
-2nd in Norris voting (Behind a prime Ray Bourque)1990,1991
-Norris voting finishes: Al MacInnis (86-87 to 02-03): 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th, 8th

-4 Time First Team All star
-3 Time 2nd Team All Star
***Played in arguably the best era of defenseman

-3X top 10 in Assists
-2nd all time in PP Goals on ice

Led two seperate Teams that made the Stanley Cup finals in points (Cup in 1988-89)

-160 career playoff points in 177 career playoff games

2X Olympic team member at age 34 and 38 (Best on best teams)


MacInnis played 21 seasons in the NHL without a minus season. Failed comeback as a 40 year old where he played 3 games and was a -1 *only minus season*



Hart voting:

Chris Chelios - 5th(1989), 7th(1993), 10th(1996)
Al MacInnis - 8th(1991), 10th(1999), 6th(2003)
Scott Stevens - 9th(1992), 7th(1994)
Chris Pronger - 1st(2000)



Quote:
When you think of Al MacInnis you think of his booming slap shot. His overall effective game which ranked him as one of the most complete defenders of any era is totally overlooked by his 100 mile an hour blast from the point that puts the fear of god into goalies and anyone standing in the way.
-Greatesthockeylegends

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01-25-2012, 06:30 PM
  #80
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Yep good pick mark. MacInnis is defintely an average #1 here. Had he dropped a few more spots I probably would have tried to trade up for him just on value alone (and the idea that putting him on the point of a PP with Harvey would have been....something lol.)

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Old
01-25-2012, 06:34 PM
  #81
TheDevilMadeMe
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This is about where MacInnis should go IMO. He could go a bit earlier but not much.

Great power play weapon for sure.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I think he probably was the BDA


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 01-25-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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Old
01-25-2012, 06:50 PM
  #82
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Thanks guys, i'm not going to lie the recent top 60 defenseman project in the HOH board was very useful and an awesome read. I'm not going to claim that al is better then Pronger,Stevens,Seibert etc... but he is in the same tier as them as well.


I found a very interesting thread http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1038279 regarding when Pronger and MacInnis played together on the Blues.

A lot of die hard Blues fans were comparing MacInnis defensive game to how Lidstrom plays.

A couple small points from the above thread:

Quote:
Chopper wasn't going to outpunish forwards, his defensive play was much like Lidstrom, he was just smart positionally and was more likely to interupt a cross-ice pass or work a defenceman into the corner for his supporting backchecking forwards to handle
Quote:
MacInnis was known as "Chopper" for his hard stick checks. I thought he was very good defensively, using his skating ability to get back into the defensive zone and using his stick to get the puck back. He may have been an offensive defenseman, but he is far from a XXXX or Coffey. He was a rock on the blue line.

Take these for what they're worth, but these are from the Blues forum from Blues fans.


Last edited by markrander87: 01-25-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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Old
01-25-2012, 06:52 PM
  #83
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Just a friendly note on the OP , nik jr 146th pick should be in red.

guess I forgot to change it when I could edit it in the last thread.

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01-25-2012, 06:52 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
This is about where MacInnis should go IMO. He could go a bit earlier but not much.

Great power play weapon for sure.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I think he probably was the BDA
Despite already have a defenseman, I would have thought about grabbing MacInnis at 54.

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Old
01-25-2012, 06:54 PM
  #85
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MacInnis was the guy I was speaking of when Pronger was picked.

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01-25-2012, 06:57 PM
  #86
Jafar
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I remember some years ago the great MacInnis-Pronger pairing.

Anybody remembers who was considered the best between the two at the time? It was MacInnis no?

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01-25-2012, 07:01 PM
  #87
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
I remember some years ago the great MacInnis-Pronger pairing.

Anybody remembers who was considered the best between the two at the time? It was MacInnis no?
They were only paired together on the PP. Pronger was generally considered better by that point, I think.

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Old
01-25-2012, 07:06 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
They were only paired together on the PP. Pronger was generally considered better by that point, I think.
hmmm I have some shady memories of MacInnis being considered the best , but maybe that's just me remembering that MacInnis was a bigger name than Pronger at the time even though I was fully aware of who they were.I admit I didnt saw them play a lot , them being out west.

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01-25-2012, 07:06 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
I remember some years ago the great MacInnis-Pronger pairing.

Anybody remembers who was considered the best between the two at the time? It was MacInnis no?
Memory is foggy, but I want to say it was Jamie Rivers...

MacInnis in the earlier years there for sure, but I think Pronger was logging more minutes by the end of the 1990's. For me, it would have been a tough call to choose between them back then.

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01-25-2012, 07:25 PM
  #90
markrander87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
They were only paired together on the PP. Pronger was generally considered better by that point, I think.
It's very close. I'm not sure if you have checked out this(http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1038279) thread yet, but it is very interesting regarding the two.


When comparing the two it is tough to ignore that MacInnis has over twice as many All star game appearances and almost twice as many 1st and 2nd All star team votes.


At least for me i'd much rather prefer Consistency then a slightly more up and down game like Prongers.


Again I am not stating MacInnis>>>Pronger, but given the above and style of play I prefer MacInnis....


*Awaits Overpass*


Last edited by markrander87: 01-25-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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Old
01-25-2012, 07:34 PM
  #91
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Just a friendly note on the OP , nik jr 146th pick should be in red.

guess I forgot to change it when I could edit it in the last thread.
Looks like you made my pick at 147 red instead, so those two need to be switched

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Old
01-25-2012, 07:42 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
hmmm I have some shady memories of MacInnis being considered the best , but maybe that's just me remembering that MacInnis was a bigger name than Pronger at the time even though I was fully aware of who they were.I admit I didnt saw them play a lot , them being out west.
Macinnis was better than Pronger when they first were teammates in St.Louis. But Al was in his twilight while Pronger was young and just emerging around 97-2000.

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01-25-2012, 07:43 PM
  #93
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
It's very close. I'm not sure if you have checked out this(http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1038279) thread yet, but it is very interesting regarding the two.


When comparing the two it is tough to ignore that MacInnis has over twice as many All star game appearances and almost twice as many 1st and 2nd All star team votes.


At least for me i'd much rather prefer Consistency then a slightly more up and down game like Prongers.


Again I am not stating MacInnis>>>Pronger, but given the above and style of play I prefer MacInnis....


*Awaits Overpass*
Resume wise there isn't a better value pick (using 70's model) than Macinnis at 52.

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01-25-2012, 07:49 PM
  #94
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There were two defenceman on the board, I was sure you'd take one of them Mark, and I am damn glad it wasn't the one I wanted.

The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select 53rd overall, from Newmarket Ontario, Dit Clapper, D/RW

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01-25-2012, 07:59 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Macinnis was better than Pronger when they first were teammates in St.Louis. But Al was in his twilight while Pronger was young and just emerging around 97-2000.
MacInnis was the Norris winner in 99 and a 1st team all star in 2003.. that is some twilight!

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Old
01-25-2012, 08:20 PM
  #96
Nalyd Psycho
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While working on a Clapper bio I found this gem on Maurice Richard:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Coleman: Top 10 Hockey Players of All-Time, 1979
The most thrilling performer of his particular era and he could be described as the latter-day Morenz. No one ever matched his ferocious assaults on the opposition net or his ability to score goals while being hogtied by desperate defencemen. His defensive ability has been unjustly ignore by hockey historians. The left wingers who played against him seldom scored goals.
Source

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01-25-2012, 08:24 PM
  #97
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
While working on a Clapper bio I found this gem on Maurice Richard:

Source
Pretty sure that was in my bio of him last year. He was used as checker for the last 1-2 of the 5 Cups in a row.

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01-25-2012, 08:25 PM
  #98
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Pretty sure that was in my bio of him last year. He was used as checker for Montreal's 1-2 of the 5 Cups in a row.
Quite possibly. But people still refer to him as one dimensional.

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01-25-2012, 08:30 PM
  #99
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quite possibly. But people still refer to him as one dimensional.
I mean, he's certainly not above average defensively in an all-time sense.

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Old
01-25-2012, 08:31 PM
  #100
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
While working on a Clapper bio I found this gem on Maurice Richard:

Source
Some pretty nice things to say about Morenz in there too. In an article that also mentions Bobby Orr, Coleman says of Morenz: "no one has ever matched his skating ability." He also names Morenz the best player of all time.

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