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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread II

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Old
01-25-2012, 08:32 PM
  #101
Nalyd Psycho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I mean, he's certainly not above average defensively in an all-time sense.
Yeah, I'm not planning to use him in a defensive role. But one dimensional is an unfair criticism.

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01-25-2012, 08:36 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Yeah, I'm not planning to use him in a defensive role. But one dimensional is an unfair criticism.
I mean, in a way he is. He's definitely much better at scoring goals than he is at anything else.

The problem is when people then extrapolate that to mean he's terrible at everything else, which is not what the evidence shows

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01-25-2012, 08:38 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I mean, in a way he is. He's definitely much better at scoring goals than he is at anything else.

The problem is when people then extrapolate that to mean he's terrible at everything else, which is not what the evidence shows
He's one dimensional in so far as one dimension outshines the rest. But one dimensional almost never means that. It almost always means lacking in all but one dimension. Which is an unfair slight on Maurice Richard.

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01-25-2012, 08:38 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
What I don't understand is why some people think this of Red Kelly.

Red Kelly's defensive game is underrated as much as he is.
Nobody was talking about Red Kelly. And I think most of us realize he was excellent defensively - though probably not as good as Potvin.

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Old
01-25-2012, 08:40 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You must have really hated the guys available now to make a trade like this.
I wouldn't say that. 10 picks ago I thought: if Bill Cook is there, I'll take him. Now that he was gone prior to my selection, I didn't had time to research my selection. My life away from the computer didn't let me any time to prepare that selection. I didn't want the ATD to wait another 5 hours because of me, so I traded the pick.

The ATD is fun this year. No pressure, I am smooth as silk.


Last edited by vecens24: 01-25-2012 at 08:44 PM. Reason: trying to keep thread clean, let's keep stuff to a simple topic and not start a million random jump off points
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01-25-2012, 08:49 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I wouldn't say that. 10 picks ago I thought: if Bill Cook is there, I'll take him. Now that he was gone prior to my selection, I didn't had time to research my selection. My life away from the computer didn't let me any time to prepare that selection. I didn't want the ATD to wait another 5 hours because of me, so I traded the pick.

The ATD is fun this year. No pressure, I am smooth as silk.


EDIT: No disrespect to you Vecens, but it's a bit ridiculous that you delete the second part of my post. If we can't even discuss the selections made, why would I want to participate in the All-Time Draft?

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01-25-2012, 08:52 PM
  #107
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quite a run of defensemen we've just had , I think it is coming to an end soon.We could feel the stress of every GM wanting a decent n1 , which is why I picked Kelly over a bunch of great Montreal Canadiens at 18th.

we're entering a very interesting part of the draft between 50-100.

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01-25-2012, 08:53 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
EDIT: No disrespect to you Vecens, but it's a bit ridiculous that you delete the second part of my post. If we can't even discuss the selections made, why would I want to participate in the All-Time Draft?
vecens is concerned about the number of posts in the draft threads and having too many threads.

However, I don't think you need be too concerned vecens; posts will slow down as we get into the long-haul and the initial excitement wares off and people become less knowledgeable about other players, plus discussion will turn to other threads.

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01-25-2012, 08:53 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
EDIT: No disrespect to you Vecens, but it's a bit ridiculous that you delete the second part of my post. If we can't even discuss the selections made, why would I want to participate in the All-Time Draft?
Honestly because we've discussed Kelly vs. Potvin to death, and in turn Kelly's defense. There is a thread up on the HOH board, there has been at least 3 pages on the first thread discussing it, do we really need to discuss it more? Is anything more going to get accomplished by beating that dead horse any more than we possibly already have? If you want to continue talking about Kelly, who went about 30 thread pages ago, go to the HOH board and do it or do it in the Chat thread. This thread is a wreck as it is.

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Old
01-25-2012, 08:55 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Honestly because we've discussed Kelly vs. Potvin to death, and in turn Kelly's defense. There is a thread up on the HOH board, there has been at least 3 pages on the first thread discussing it, do we really need to discuss it more? Is anything more going to get accomplished by beating that dead horse any more than we possibly already have? If you want to continue talking about Kelly, who went about 30 thread pages ago, go to the HOH board and do it or do it in the Chat thread. This thread is a wreck as it is.
This is ridiculous , we haven't discussed Potvin vs Kelly to death at all , we didn't even get into the numbers.
We're discussing a round 1 player at round 2 , what's the big deal?

We're talking about two very strong n1 defensemen in the same division , which eaglebelfour is in also.I don't see how it warranted your intervention of all post.

Of course I'm not accusing you of anything and I'm 100% sure that wasn't your point , but deleting players discussion that got picked 1 round earlier could work in someone's favor in the future if he has the power to delete things.

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Old
01-25-2012, 08:59 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Honestly because we've discussed Kelly vs. Potvin to death, and in turn Kelly's defense. There is a thread up on the HOH board, there has been at least 3 pages on the first thread discussing it, do we really need to discuss it more? Is anything more going to get accomplished by beating that dead horse any more than we possibly already have? If you want to continue talking about Kelly, who went about 30 thread pages ago, go to the HOH board and do it or do it in the Chat thread. This thread is a wreck as it is.
... And? If we still want to discuss Kelly vs. Potvin (although I was only talking about Kelly), what's the big deal? I understand if I talk about my day at work, you can delete or move it, but if I talk about players selected in the ATD, even though we talked about it already, why can't I? Believe me, we won't have 100 threads, the discussion always vanish after the 100 picks or so.

My pleasure participating in the ATD is to talk about the selection. If this is not the main focus of what we're doing here, perhaps this is not my place. Never been a problem for the first 8 drafts I participated in though ...

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:03 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
This is ridiculous , we haven't discussed Potvin vs Kelly to death at all , we didn't even get into the numbers.
We're discussing a round 1 player at round 2 , what's the big deal?
Seriously? I give you posts 375-about halfway through the next page, 434-to the bottom of the page, a few random posts on the next page, post 501 down to about halfway through that page, all of page 23 through to the top of 24, and I really don't even feel like looking through the rest of them. We've discussed Kelly enough. Like I said I'm not stopping you from doing it, just not in this thread. It's a wreck enough as it is to keep bringing up draft picks you made 30 pages ago.

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:03 PM
  #113
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Not worth a bio note. But, I found that Dit Clapper filled in on defence when Eddie Shore was suspended.

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:04 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Seriously? I give you posts 375-about halfway through the next page, 434-to the bottom of the page, a few random posts on the next page, post 501 down to about halfway through that page, all of page 23 through to the top of 24, and I really don't even feel like looking through the rest of them. We've discussed Kelly enough. Like I said I'm not stopping you from doing it, just not in this thread. It's a wreck enough as it is to keep bringing up draft picks you made 30 pages ago.
That's the truth, you can only try and oversell your player so much, this thread is getting hard to keep up with, especially for people who want to read every post. New discussion is obviously encouraged, but it's almost irrelevant now.

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Seriously? I give you posts 375-about halfway through the next page, 434-to the bottom of the page, a few random posts on the next page, post 501 down to about halfway through that page, all of page 23 through to the top of 24, and I really don't even feel like looking through the rest of them. We've discussed Kelly enough. Like I said I'm not stopping you from doing it, just not in this thread. It's a wreck enough as it is to keep bringing up draft picks you made 30 pages ago.
Again, don't want to offend you, but I would like to hear the other moderators on the subject. It's my 9th draft, and it's the first time I hear such a complain. And believe, we drag some discussion on multiple 1000 posts thread before!

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:07 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
... And? If we still want to discuss Kelly vs. Potvin (although I was only talking about Kelly), what's the big deal? I understand if I talk about my day at work, you can delete or move it, but if I talk about players selected in the ATD, even though we talked about it already, why can't I? Believe me, we won't have 100 threads, the discussion always vanish after the 100 picks or so.

My pleasure participating in the ATD is to talk about the selection. If this is not the main focus of what we're doing here, perhaps this is not my place. Never been a problem for the first 8 drafts I participated in though ...
Seriously I have no problem with discussing selections EB. I'm all for it. But there is no reason to be bringing up someone totally randomly and minorly connecting him to something that he has no purpose in being in the discussion in order to try to sell your player (which is what I believe is happening in this scenario). That's where the line has to be drawn. I'm all for comparing picks, comparing players to players, but not whenever there has been over 100 posts as it is so far in this draft discussing said player. That's when we just have to move the discussion to another place. Start a new thread, take it to the chat thread. I'm totally good with that and you won't see me ever bother you if that's the case. But a line HAS to be drawn somewhere at least in this thread.

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01-25-2012, 09:09 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
That's the truth, you can only try and oversell your player so much, this thread is getting hard to keep up with, especially for people who want to read every post.
you scared of what we could find? Like that Kelly is just as good defensively than Potvin if we take out the canon? Just talking hypothetically , maybe this is not the case and Kelly is not as good.

I'm not overselling anything , I'm just pointing something that I think need to be corrected , a lot of people do think Kelly is below-average defensively , which is false , so I thought trying to bring the truth about players was the main goal of the ATD , I didn't know you had a clock on you with limited time to try to make your point.

Eaglebelfour stated that Kelly was definitely above-average defensively in the ATD , this is not something that was said often around here , so by deleting it you're not really saving the thread , you're just punishing my 1st player value.

If a line has to be drawn , a second part of a post shouldn't be where the line is , 1 single round later.It's not like we're in round 5 and I'm going all crazy with Kelly.This happened 3 days ago.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 01-25-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old
01-25-2012, 09:10 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
you scared of what we could find? Like that Kelly is just as good defensively than Potvin if we take out the canon? Just talking hypothetically , maybe this is not the case and Kelly is not as good.

I'm not overselling anything , I'm just pointing something that I think need to be corrected , a lot of people do think Kelly is below-average defensively , which is false , so I thought trying to bring the truth about players was the main goal of the ATD , I didn't know you had a clock on you with limited time to try to make your point.
I don't think he's below-average defensively either, I think he's definitely capable of being called at least average, but the comparisons with Potvin are a little bit far gone now. Players are great to learn about, but not when the subject has gone on too far.

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:14 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I don't think he's below-average defensively either, I think he's definitely capable of being called at least average, but the comparisons with Potvin are a little bit far gone now. Players are great to learn about, but not when the subject has gone on too far.
You see what I'm talking about people? Kelly is far from being over here , lots of things still need to be corrected.

How is Kelly average defensively? What proof or even quote do you have that say that Kelly was anything but elite defensively?

The subject has gone too far in your mind but as of right now you didn't brought anything that denies Kelly's elite defensive play when he was in the league.

What proves Potvin is better defensively than Kelly?
Or even suggests?
More physical? Fine , but better defensively? Bring your points and maybe I'll give it to you if it make sense.

I'm waiting just here.

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01-25-2012, 09:17 PM
  #120
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I like how a deleted post spawned another half a page on the same topic.

vecens, don't worry about it. We'll possibly hit 14 threads instead of 10 this time at most. There's no way it gets to 25 or anything, there's only so much interest in discussing the merits between Aki Berg and Taro Tsujimoto when it gets that deep into the draft.

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01-25-2012, 09:19 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
You see what I'm talking about people? Kelly is far from being over here , lots of things still need to be corrected.

How is Kelly average defensively? What proof or even quote do you have that say that Kelly was anything but elite defensively?

The subject has gone too far in your mind but as of right now you didn't brought anything that denies Kelly's elite defensive play when he was in the league.

What proves Potvin is better defensively than Kelly?
Or even suggests?

I'm waiting just here.
It's all relative. No source calls Kelly bad defensively, but are his praises as high-sung defensively as other defensemen in terms of quotes? (And yes, I glanced through the bio you posted).

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01-25-2012, 09:19 PM
  #122
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The information that has been uncovered doesn't reveal anything that was elite defensively does it? It's definitely intriguing for you (as his owner) but I think I speak for most people here in saying that everytime I visit this thread I don't want to always hear about Red Kelly, or else I'll get really sick of him and get disgustingly unbiased of him. There's people on the HoH forum who would be able to answer your questions rather than fill the drafting thread up.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just trying to view what's best for the discussion and the sake of what you can base your information of Kelly on.

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:22 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
I like how a deleted post spawned another half a page on the same topic.

vecens, don't worry about it. We'll possibly hit 14 threads instead of 10 this time at most. There's no way it gets to 25 or anything, there's only so much interest in discussing the merits between Aki Berg and Taro Tsujimoto when it gets that deep into the draft.
The irony is fascinating.

And you guys are doing such a great job of arguing the minor league selection, I think we're getting more and more into discussing the later rounds. They usually make the difference between a middle of the pack team or a division leader.

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01-25-2012, 09:25 PM
  #124
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Well, this wasn't the plan, but a bargain is a bargain...

I'm happy to be able to select the last of the Magnificent Seven: Martin Brodeur.

Please PM the next GM for me. I'm stuck on my phone right now.

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Old
01-25-2012, 09:27 PM
  #125
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Was super hard to pass on Brodeur. But I just couldn't visualize my team forming with him and Richard.

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