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Report: AHL Hamilton Bulldogs moving to Laval (QC) for 2013-2014
I bet the Laval Bulldogs will fare a lot better than the Marlies experiment. The Montreal area is a market with only 2 hockey teams (Montreal Canadiens and Boisbriand Armada of the QMJHL) and 2 other major sports franchises (Impact of the MLS and Alouettes of the CFL).
Perhaps a team located in Laval (Quebec's second biggest city) in a brand new arena that's not too big will build a good fanbase, especially since it's affiliated with the Habs.
From the Canadiens perspective, it makes perfect sense to get their farm team closer to home. From Laval's point of view, they've been trying to develop a downtown area for the last few years to lose their reputation of being only a dormitory suburb with huge shopping centers; which they partially succeeded in building the Centropolis area, which has trendy bars, restaurants and entertainments that you would not be able to find outside downtown Montreal a few years ago. The North shore of Montreal has been expanding very fast and the businesses follow.
In my mind, a team in Laval is far enough from Montreal not to be completely overshadowed by the Habs (think Montreal Junior or, to a lesser extent, the Marlies) for their corporate ticket base and will bring a younger crowd that can't afford overpriced Habs tickets.
The arena that will be built for PRO HOCKEY in Laval will be built using Federal money and 0% of private cash!
Why is there no controvercy about that?!! Where are the jerks and hypocrites in Montreal crying that it's unfair like they did when we wanted to do that here in Québec City and it was refused to us?
Once again, the Montreal region gets everything they want on the back of all the Canadian taxpayers. But when we want anything whatsoever in the Regions or in Québec City the bourgeois hypocrites in the Métropole put us in our place.
The arena that will be built for PRO HOCKEY in Laval will be built using Federal money and 0% of private cash!
Why is there no controvercy about that?!! Where are the jerks and hypocrites in Montreal crying that it's unfair like they did when we wanted to do that here in Québec City and it was refused to us?
Once again, the Montreal region gets everything they want on the back of all the Canadian taxpayers. But when we want anything whatsoever in the Regions or in Québec City the bourgeois hypocrites in the Métropole put us in our place.
But but but they needed that building for the OSM!!
The arena that will be built for PRO HOCKEY in Laval will be built using Federal money and 0% of private cash!
Why is there no controvercy about that?!! Where are the jerks and hypocrites in Montreal crying that it's unfair like they did when we wanted to do that here in Québec City and it was refused to us?
Once again, the Montreal region gets everything they want on the back of all the Canadian taxpayers. But when we want anything whatsoever in the Regions or in Québec City the bourgeois hypocrites in the Métropole put us in our place.
Ahhh cue the good old inferiority complex
A few points:
1- The existing arena in Laval is completely unusable and is in ruins (10 times worst than the Colisee)
2- The plan was not to build the new arena to bring in a pro franchise. However, you can argue that they hoped a QMJHL team would relocate in Laval.
3- The arena won't cost 400M$
4- Living in Quebec but coming from Montreal, the people in Quebec City need to realize one thing: Montrealers don't care about what happens in Quebec. The people that were against the construction of a new Colisee are the same who complain every time the government invests in sports, same thing happened when the Expos wanted a new stadium and when the gvt decided to replace the Stade Olympic's roof. If the new arena in Laval was costing the gvt. 400M$ to build, you could be sure as hell everyone would ask the same questions. Furthermore, the city of Laval is seen in a VERY bad light by most Montrealers, especially with the corrupt mayor that they have had for the last 20 years.
Most medias in Quebec City convey the idea that Montrealers do everything in their power to get all the gvt money and leave the other regions dying. And that's simply not true. It's not because all the province's medias are located in Montreal that people in Montreal always complain like the news outlets do. The medias are always there to point out the negatives, whether it's happening in Mtl, Qc or Saguenay. The only difference is that when they talk about Quebec, everybody in Qc listens.
You need to realize that the same media pressure blocked the construction of a new Casino, a new Cirque du Soleil permanent show and countless other things by giving too much attention to the few people that were against those project and not showing the benefits that those projects could bring to Quebec's society. Positive news don't sell, so they're always trying to find controversies about everything the gvt ever does.
Sorry for that long post but I always get really riled up when I hear that from people in Quebec and when the medias give an obscene amount of attention to a few people that are against everything. That's one of the main reasons, coupled with the fact that our politicians are spineless and always break under media pressure, that the province is never getting anything done.
But but but they needed that building for the OSM!!
I hear ya, I hear ya
That's because the medias always sides with the artists that somehow thinks everything that involves sports is not worthy of getting any funds while those POOR artists always need MORE AND MORE subventions to keep surviving.
I don't care that they built the OSM a concert hall. Honestly, it's a good thing for the society to promote music. But I too get really angry when they say that building the OSM hall is somehow more important than building a baseball stadium, an arena or other non-cultural related venues.
I bet the Laval Bulldogs will fare a lot better than the Marlies experiment. The Montreal area is a market with only 2 hockey teams (Montreal Canadiens and Boisbriand Armada of the QMJHL) and 2 other major sports franchises (Impact of the MLS and Alouettes of the CFL).
Perhaps a team located in Laval (Quebec's second biggest city) in a brand new arena that's not too big will build a good fanbase, especially since it's affiliated with the Habs.
From the Canadiens perspective, it makes perfect sense to get their farm team closer to home. From Laval's point of view, they've been trying to develop a downtown area for the last few years to lose their reputation of being only a dormitory suburb with huge shopping centers; which they partially succeeded in building the Centropolis area, which has trendy bars, restaurants and entertainments that you would not be able to find outside downtown Montreal a few years ago. The North shore of Montreal has been expanding very fast and the businesses follow.
In my mind, a team in Laval is far enough from Montreal not to be completely overshadowed by the Habs (think Montreal Junior or, to a lesser extent, the Marlies) for their corporate ticket base and will bring a younger crowd that can't afford overpriced Habs tickets.
To be fair, Toronto getting a team for attendance was the LAST of their concerns-they were more interested in less travel to the NHL club and the other perks for employees and mangement travelling between farm and parent club. As was mentioned in the earlier in the thread, for all other aspects EXCEPT attendance, the "experiment" has paid dividends for Toronto, and the idea that a couple players chose Toronto because of that location situation-I am sure it will do the same for Montreal PLUS having another place for fans to attend hockey-I actually would fully expect sold out or near sell out for an AHL team in Laval
1- The existing arena in Laval is completely unusable and is in ruins (10 times worst than the Colisee)
2- The plan was not to build the new arena to bring in a pro franchise. However, you can argue that they hoped a QMJHL team would relocate in Laval.
3- The arena won't cost 400M$
I've seen 120M$ And considering the tendency of the price of projects around Montréal to baloon, You can be sure it's going to be more than that,
Quote:
4- Living in Quebec but coming from Montreal, the people in Quebec City need to realize one thing: Montrealers don't care about what happens in Quebec. The people that were against the construction of a new Colisee are the same who complain every time the government invests in sports, same thing happened when the Expos wanted a new stadium and when the gvt decided to replace the Stade Olympic's roof. If the new arena in Laval was costing the gvt. 400M$ to build, you could be sure as hell everyone would ask the same questions. Furthermore, the city of Laval is seen in a VERY bad light by most Montrealers, especially with the corrupt mayor that they have had for the last 20 years.
From the top of my head:
New roof for the Olympic Stadium: 300M$
OSM's Concert hall: 266M$
Échangeur Turcot 2,5G$
Quote:
Most medias in Quebec City convey the idea that Montrealers do everything in their power to get all the gvt money and leave the other regions dying. And that's simply not true. It's not because all the province's medias are located in Montreal that people in Montreal always complain like the news outlets do. The medias are always there to point out the negatives, whether it's happening in Mtl, Qc or Saguenay. The only difference is that when they talk about Quebec, everybody in Qc listens.
You need to realize that the same media pressure blocked the construction of a new Casino, a new Cirque du Soleil permanent show and countless other things by giving too much attention to the few people that were against those project and not showing the benefits that those projects could bring to Quebec's society. Positive news don't sell, so they're always trying to find controversies about everything the gvt ever does.
Sorry for that long post but I always get really riled up when I hear that from people in Quebec and when the medias give an obscene amount of attention to a few people that are against everything. That's one of the main reasons, coupled with the fact that our politicians are spineless and always break under media pressure, that the province is never getting anything done.
Montreal has the politicians it voted for. Montreal can only blame itself.
The issue with Hamilton is its near Toronto and Buffalo i would like to see them to have a Nhl team but i don't think the Dogs moving means there is a nhl team on the way.
Clearly it has zero to do with the NHL. You don't need to plan on moving a team 2 years in advance. The Jets got a team, relocated the minor league team, changed minor league affliates, Vancouver change minor league affliates, all within a few months.
I've seen 120M$ And considering the tendency of the price of projects around Montréal to baloon, You can be sure it's going to be more than that,
From the top of my head:
New roof for the Olympic Stadium: 300M$
OSM's Concert hall: 266M$ Échangeur Turcot 2,5G$
Come on now, the Montreal area holds 50% of Quebec residents, of course some of their infrastructure project costs will look outrageous. I'm sure the Charest/Robert-Bourassa interchange (and coming up, "la tête des ponts") will cost less than that but those works also serve less people.
Besides one could straw man this all the way down to Ste-Cécile-de-Lévrard or some other hamlet that has never seen a single Federal dime. Quebec City wouldn't look too good.
tl;dr -- you'll need a more serious analysis than a couple cherrypicked projects to show the Montreal region gets more than its fair share or federal/provincial money.
Ok I promise that it's the last time I fuel that debate, as I realize it's off-topic to compare the new arena in Laval to the one in Quebec City in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawa666
I've seen 120M$ And considering the tendency of the price of projects around Montréal to baloon, You can be sure it's going to be more than that,
You could say that about every project made throughout Quebec, so it's a moot point (look at what's happening for the new ice rink in Ste-Foy or the Autoroute 440)
Quote:
From the top of my head:
New roof for the Olympic Stadium: 300M$
OSM's Concert hall: 266M$
Échangeur Turcot 2,5G$
From the top of my head :
New Colisee: 350M$
Echangeur Robert-Bourassa: 360M$
The whole exchanger on north of Pierre-Laporte bridge starting next year: Evaluated at 1G$
Gaetan-Boucher Ice rink: 68M$
However, if we don't want to be biased, we shouldn't use any public facilities or infrastructures such as hospitals and roads to compare to the OSM hall, Laval arena or the Colisee. Those are inevitable expenses as we need to maintain roads and social services at all time. When the roads/bridges in Qc City will be as bad as those in Montreal (hopefully that day never comes ) they'll invest just as much.
Also, the whole Olympic Stadium roof project got as much flak than the project of the new Colisee if not even more. A majority of people in Montreal are against that project and they were forced to restart the whole process, which they are doing now if I'm not mistaking.
What I'm trying to say is: there's no Montreal bias when it comes to investment and people in Montreal are not on a crusade against spending public money in Qc and the regions... some people are simply against spending public money in anything that isn't roads or healthcare
Furthermore, the Laval/North Shore region has suffered from SEVERE underspending in the last 2 decades compared to size of the population living there. The arena is one of the first major infrastructural projects made in the region in the last 20 years. We're not talking about downtown Montreal here.
Quote:
Montreal has the politicians it voted for. Montreal can only blame itself.
The whole political system in Quebec is rotten. Don't tell me that there's a visionary leader in the bunch that we have at l'Assemblee Nationale (and arguably in all of Canada). They're all deciding according to popularity polls and media pressure breaks all of them. So blaming Montreal for the lack of political leadership in this province is rather dishonest. The real thing to blame is the general apathy of the public towards politics.
Look, I'm simply saying that we should stop comparing everything that is done in a city compared to another simply for the sake of whining that one side gets more. Those who are against building the arena in Laval should be against building the new ice rink in Ste-Foy. Doing otherwise would be biased. However, I still haven't seen the big bad Montreal population getting on the ice rink's case or on the new arena in Drummondville.
I love Quebec because everything is in better state compared to Montreal. If one day Quebec's infrastructure becomes as bad as Montreal, I have no doubt that the government will invest massively to fix it like they are doing in Montreal right now.
Let's stop fighting and try to make things better instead
To be fair, Toronto getting a team for attendance was the LAST of their concerns-they were more interested in less travel to the NHL club and the other perks for employees and mangement travelling between farm and parent club. As was mentioned in the earlier in the thread, for all other aspects EXCEPT attendance, the "experiment" has paid dividends for Toronto, and the idea that a couple players chose Toronto because of that location situation-I am sure it will do the same for Montreal PLUS having another place for fans to attend hockey-I actually would fully expect sold out or near sell out for an AHL team in Laval
I know, I was only talking about the Marlies attendance.
From what I've read, the rest of the project has been a great success for the TML organization.
To be fair, Toronto getting a team for attendance was the LAST of their concerns-they were more interested in less travel to the NHL club and the other perks for employees and mangement travelling between farm and parent club. As was mentioned in the earlier in the thread, for all other aspects EXCEPT attendance, the "experiment" has paid dividends for Toronto, and the idea that a couple players chose Toronto because of that location situation-I am sure it will do the same for Montreal PLUS having another place for fans to attend hockey-I actually would fully expect sold out or near sell out for an AHL team in Laval
Only partly true.
The pros outweigh the cons by a long shot. That said, MLSE had every intent on making money on the team when they moved it, as supposed to losing $5-6 million per year they are now (over half of the losses are the result of Jeff Finger's contract). The team had budgeted for sell-out crowds. I guess they just overestimated the demand for minor pro league hockey in a major market like Toronto.
Just to clarify, according to CHCH, Michael Andlauer is guarenteeing that the Bulldogs will be still in be Hamilton beyond the end of the lease agreement (I suspect a new lease agreement is already in place, but hasn't been announced yet), however he doesn't know if the Montreal Canadians will be the affliate. The parent club has made no indication one way or another if they plan to renew (unsurprising since most of the plans are usually made at the end of season, not a year and a half in advance.)
So Hamilton is stuck with AHL for the forseeable future, but there may be a new colour scheme...
Shouldn't the thread title be changed to reflect the story's EXTREMELY unconfirmed status?
My Barbers' brother in-laws 2nd cousins husbands nephew works at the Plum Crazy Saloon down on Garnet?. He claims AHL President Dave Andrews & the Islanders Charles Wang were in there, drinking heavily, ogling San Diego. Asked to leave when they came to blows, apparently arguing about copyrights, logo's, the "Gulls"?.
Why I never believe ownership further than I can throw them. I had to deal with this just starting about a year ago with the WHL team I followed and went to about 30 games or so last year.
Laval will find a way to build their arena like Quebec city did, with no federal money and that's good. It's less expensive as well, not a 400 millions dollars one.
If TVA says that it will happen... it will happen, they never make mistake.
However Andlauer, the owner, is in "denying mode" at the moment. He might be saying that to keep the customers in his arena...
If a mod wants to change the title feel free to do it.
Don't confuse the franchise with the affliation, which is apparent what TVA seems to be doing. Andlauer is saying the FRANCHISE is staying where it is, he also said that he doesn't know about the AFFLIATION. Montreal may well put it's affliation in Laval (or somewhere nearby (not that's worked in the past)), but the Bulldogs will stay where they are with a possible new affliation...
