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Mason Raymond - An Asset to be Moved at the Deadline?

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Old
01-26-2012, 04:48 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Apologies, I skimmed the thread and saw a reaction to what I assumed was a Moen/Raymond proposal.

None of what you have suggested here is off base, and actually falls in line with my point. Raymond could/should only be moved if A) We get a significant piece back, and B) We are able to reinforce the depth of our top 9 via other moves.
Ya, we've had this discussion before I think, and fundamentally agree.

As I mentioned above if we could add to Raymond and score Niskanen + Tangradi out of Pittsburgh I'd be interested in what those extra piece(s) would entail.

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01-26-2012, 04:49 PM
  #102
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Rumors of Brendan Morrow being available. Raymond would be nice to start going the other way..

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01-26-2012, 04:52 PM
  #103
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Morrow would put this team over the top. Trading with Dallas wouldn't be a stretch either, but its a pipe dream.

Still need D help though.

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01-26-2012, 04:58 PM
  #104
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Moen should only be considered as an upgrade for the 4th line. He's a 20 point player who has scored 2 goals in his last 32 playoff games. He's gritty and good defensively, but generally a weak offensive threat (Corsi numbers have generally been pretty dismal, although partly due to his defensive assignments).

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01-26-2012, 05:06 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Morrow would put this team over the top. Trading with Dallas wouldn't be a stretch either, but its a pipe dream.

Still need D help though.
The only way they do that deal is if they get an established playeer along with him, or one of the top prospects.

But I agree Morrow adds so much. What would be left for the Defense needed Asset wise?

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01-26-2012, 05:07 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
Rumors of Brendan Morrow being available. Raymond would be nice to start going the other way..
That's a piece that has some potential, IMO. I would definitely want the Canucks to entertain a deal that saw them acquiring Morrow for Raymond + other parts. Morrow is built for the playoffs, although he has had some durability issues in the past. Would bring a really nice element of grit to the team.

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01-26-2012, 05:08 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
The only way they do that deal is if they get an established playeer along with him, or one of the top prospects.

But I agree Morrow adds so much. What would be left for the Defense needed Asset wise?
Probably not much which doesn't really work for us.

If we could get both Morrow and a D man out of Dallas we'd be sitting so pretty its not even funny.

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01-26-2012, 05:08 PM
  #108
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Well, Dallas' main needs are at centre ice (after Ribiero they don't have much) so since we aren't trading Hodgson I'd think we'd try to build a package around Schroeder.

Dallas fan seemed to think 'near nhl ready prospect' + 1st rounder; so how would people feel about Schroeder + 1st 2012 for Morrow?

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01-26-2012, 05:13 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Well, Dallas' main needs are at centre ice (after Ribiero they don't have much) so since we aren't trading Hodgson I'd think we'd try to build a package around Schroeder.

Dallas fan seemed to think 'near nhl ready prospect' + 1st rounder; so how would people feel about Schroeder + 1st 2012 for Morrow?
If we also throw them May Ray and pry a D men out of them Raymond could fill in at center for the rest of the year till they find someone viable.

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01-26-2012, 05:15 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Well, Dallas' main needs are at centre ice (after Ribiero they don't have much) so since we aren't trading Hodgson I'd think we'd try to build a package around Schroeder.

Dallas fan seemed to think 'near nhl ready prospect' + 1st rounder; so how would people feel about Schroeder + 1st 2012 for Morrow?
Where the hell is Morrow going to play? Are we trading Raymond in this case or bumping Hansen down to the 4th line (which is an utter waste). Are we demoting Higgins or Booth, both who have good chemistry with Kesler or are we putting a 4M dollar player on the third line?

We don't need to add anymore offensive players unless we're shipping one off. Putting HoneyBadger on the fourth is bad asset management.

Not to mention that I doubt Dallas will work with Vancouver, given their new owner's history with the Canucks.

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01-26-2012, 05:18 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Where the hell is Morrow going to play? Are we trading Raymond in this case or bumping Hansen down to the 4th line (which is an utter waste). Are we demoting Higgins or Booth, both who have good chemistry with Kesler or are we putting a 4M dollar player on the third line?

We don't need to add anymore offensive players unless we're shipping one off. Putting HoneyBadger on the fourth is bad asset management.

Not to mention that I doubt Dallas will work with Vancouver, given their new owner's history with the Canucks.
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Booth
Morrow - Hodgson - Hansen
Lapierre - Malhotra - Weise

Bieksa - Hamhuis
Edler - Tanev/Salo
(Dallas D) - Tanev/Salo
Rome

Morrow can switch up with Higgins/Booth when AV shakes things up as Hodgson/Booth have played decent together.

Morrow + Dallas D man

For

Raymond, Ballard, Schroeds and 1st.

Maybe change the first to a 2nd and 3rd or something.

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01-26-2012, 05:19 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Where the hell is Morrow going to play? Are we trading Raymond in this case or bumping Hansen down to the 4th line (which is an utter waste). Are we demoting Higgins or Booth, both who have good chemistry with Kesler or are we putting a 4M dollar player on the third line?

We don't need to add anymore offensive players unless we're shipping one off. Putting HoneyBadger on the fourth is bad asset management.

Not to mention that I doubt Dallas will work with Vancouver, given their new owner's history with the Canucks.
Owners don't usually make the deals, GM's do. I highly doubt Gagliardi undermines Nieuwendyk ability to get the best deal (if it happens to be from us) because of some personal vendetta.

And why would Hansen have to be bumped anywhere? Morrow can play 3rd line in Raymond's spot, or he can go up to the 2nd line if someone gets injured or slumps.

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01-26-2012, 05:19 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Where the hell is Morrow going to play? Are we trading Raymond in this case or bumping Hansen down to the 4th line (which is an utter waste). Are we demoting Higgins or Booth, both who have good chemistry with Kesler or are we putting a 4M dollar player on the third line?

We don't need to add anymore offensive players unless we're shipping one off. Putting HoneyBadger on the fourth is bad asset management.

Not to mention that I doubt Dallas will work with Vancouver, given their new owner's history with the Canucks.
Morrow is better than Higgins and Hansen, if you get him he plays with Kesler.

Allowing the HHH line to get some chemistry and its a much better 3rd line.

2nd unit PP Morrow-Hodgson-Booth....


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01-26-2012, 05:20 PM
  #114
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If he can play well from now until the deadline, we could get someone pretty good for him.

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01-26-2012, 05:20 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I would not want to trade Raymond for an equivalent d-man. Are you going to replace him with a winger who's just as good? If so, what's the point? If not, we lose that huge advantage of having 3 scoring lines which are great defensively and have great chemistry.

Putting a gritty, less talented guy next to Hansen and Hodgson isn't going to help them, IMO.

The defensive end is a bit of an issue whenever Salo gets injured, but I'm comfortable with

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Salo
Ballard - Tanev

when it's healthy, and IMO, the dynamic of this forward group with Raymond could easily make up for its deficiencies once everything really starts to click.

I have to agree with the first part of this. Having Raymond is not only the piece that pushes us over the edge in having that 3rd legitimate scoring line, but he's also good value, and provides top-6 insurance in the event of an injury or slumps. That's reason enough to keep him around this year.

I disagree with being even remotely comfortable with the defence 'as is' though. We badly need to sort that situation out, but i don't like the idea of moving Raymond to patch that hole, as it just creates another, as we'd have to find ourselves an offensively talented fringe top-6 winger to replace him.

If a deal comes along that's too good to turn down for a talented bonafide top-4 RHS young d-man, and Raymond is the only piece that will get it done, then so be it i guess. But that's a lot of 'tweaking' to do by the time Gillis goes out and deals the assets to get a 2nd/3rd line tweener to replace Raymond. And IMO a guy like Moen would be a significant downgrade on what we have with Raymond. MTL fans are speculating a 2nd rounder + to get a guy like that...

In the summer however, depending on how things shake out, i'd be plenty comfortable moving Raymond, at the draft, or whenever, as i think there's a lot more flexibility there in bringing in a replacement without giving up significant assets. But as a deadline move, i just don't like it unless Gillis pulls a rabbit out of the hat and swaps Raymond for a very good young d-man and finds another 'diamond in the rough' Higgins-type pickup on the cheap.

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01-26-2012, 05:20 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Where the hell is Morrow going to play? Are we trading Raymond in this case or bumping Hansen down to the 4th line (which is an utter waste). Are we demoting Higgins or Booth, both who have good chemistry with Kesler or are we putting a 4M dollar player on the third line?

We don't need to add anymore offensive players unless we're shipping one off. Putting HoneyBadger on the fourth is bad asset management.

Not to mention that I doubt Dallas will work with Vancouver, given their new owner's history with the Canucks.
Obviously, Raymond is either moved in the deal or else he's moved in a separate deal to score us a young RS defenseman with similar value (I'll continue to use Blum as an example though he's really just a place holder). Don't worry...your beloved Hansen will not end up on the fourth line.

And wait, you were suggesting we get Anthony Stewart earlier in this thread, but don't want Brendan Morrow?

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01-26-2012, 05:22 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Booth
Morrow - Hodgson - Hansen
Lapierre - Malhotra - Weise

Bieksa - Hamhuis
Edler - Tanev/Salo
(Dallas D) - Tanev/Salo
Rome

Morrow + Dallas D man

For

Raymond, Ballard, Schroeds and 1st.

Maybe change the first to a 2nd and 3rd or something.
I know that Morrow is a UFA at the end of it so we get cap relief, but that's a lot of money for the main piece being a rental. Not to mention a 4M dollar player on the third line isn't great asset management, especially when you could get two decent depth players at that price.

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01-26-2012, 05:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
I know that Morrow is a UFA at the end of it so we get cap relief, but that's a lot of money for the main piece being a rental. Not to mention a 4M dollar player on the third line isn't great asset management, especially when you could get two decent depth players at that price.
Actually Morrow has 1 more year after this one.

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01-26-2012, 05:25 PM
  #119
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^ He could end up being the new Higgins or Lapierre, who just love being here.

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01-26-2012, 05:25 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Obviously, Raymond is either moved in the deal or else he's moved in a separate deal to score us a young RS defenseman with similar value (I'll continue to use Blum as an example though he's really just a place holder). Don't worry...your beloved Hansen will not end up on the fourth line.

And wait, you were suggesting we get Anthony Stewart earlier in this thread, but don't want Brendan Morrow?
I don't like Morrow's salary at all, even as a rental for the third line.

And it was Anthony Stewart+, and it was mentioned over the off season that Gillis had wanted Stewart in Vancouver. These are the type of moves that Gillis makes, he acquires players that he's had his eye on for awhile. And I didn't necessarily say that I wanted Stewart 100%, but a player like him. I don't think Raymond needs to be moved really unless it's another RFA (Niskanen or similar). Raymond, Schroeder, Ballard and a 1st for a rental who will likely walk (seeing as he'll be one of the more high profile UFAs) and a bottom pairing defenseman isn't a good deal.

Edit: I just noticed Morrow has one more year. But I'm still not sold on it, to be honest. I wouldn't be livid about it, I just don't think it's a cap management.

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01-26-2012, 05:28 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Where the hell is Morrow going to play? Are we trading Raymond in this case or bumping Hansen down to the 4th line (which is an utter waste). Are we demoting Higgins or Booth, both who have good chemistry with Kesler or are we putting a 4M dollar player on the third line?

We don't need to add anymore offensive players unless we're shipping one off. Putting HoneyBadger on the fourth is bad asset management.

Not to mention that I doubt Dallas will work with Vancouver, given their new owner's history with the Canucks.
The Canucks need help on the blueline moreso than up front, but if the team can add another Top 9 forward without trading Raymond, I'm all for bumping Hansen to the 4th line.

There's nothing wrong with moving Hansen down as long as the replacement player is better than Hansen. Even a small upgrade would pay huge dividends as Hansen is a considerable upgrade on Weise on the 4th line.

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01-26-2012, 05:29 PM
  #122
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I think I'd have been more down for Morrow had we not acquired Booth. We're going to have a logjam of Top 6 guys and there's only 60 minutes to be played a game.

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01-26-2012, 05:34 PM
  #123
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I don't like Morrow's salary at all, even as a rental for the third line.

And it was Anthony Stewart+, and it was mentioned over the off season that Gillis had wanted Stewart in Vancouver. These are the type of moves that Gillis makes, he acquires players that he's had his eye on for awhile. And I didn't necessarily say that I wanted Stewart 100%, but a player like him. I don't think Raymond needs to be moved really unless it's another RFA (Niskanen or similar). Raymond, Schroeder, Ballard and a 1st for a rental who will likely walk (seeing as he'll be one of the more high profile UFAs) and a bottom pairing defenseman isn't a good deal.

Edit: I just noticed Morrow has one more year. But I'm still not sold on it, to be honest. I wouldn't be livid about it, I just don't think it's a cap management.
Hodgson has the same or pretty much the same points with Booth and Higgins so bumpning one of them down isn't that big a deal imo.

If we could manage it with out moving Raymond, I doubt it, moving Hansen to the 4th line wouldn't be the end of the world. He'd give them the ability to be played more often and would give us one of the best 4th lines in the league. You just run the risk of Hansen not finding chemistry there like he's had with Coho.

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01-26-2012, 05:35 PM
  #124
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If we swapped Raymond for Morrow, Higgins would surely go down to the third line. That second line would be very imposing physically.

Morrow has 22 points in 41 games this year, so in terms of offence, Raymond and Morrow are a wash. I do like Morrow's leadership and grit. I don't know if we want to take on his salary for another season though, considering he is on the decline.

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01-26-2012, 05:37 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Raymond, Schroeder, Ballard and a 1stfor a rental who will likely walk (seeing as he'll be one of the more high profile UFAs) and a bottom pairing defenseman isn't a good deal.

Edit: I just noticed Morrow has one more year. But I'm still not sold on it, to be honest. I wouldn't be livid about it, I just don't think it's a cap management.
There is no way this package is even considered regardless of return. You may see one or two of those pieces (including the 1st), but there isn't a player out there outside of possibly Weber who could justify that sort of return.

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