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Connauton's worth the wait for Canucks - Jim Jamieson

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Old
01-27-2012, 03:09 AM
  #51
serge2k
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
I reiterate my point. "Canucks fans on HF Boards in general don't really get defense men, especially where Kevin Bieksa is concerned."

I've argued this so much that I pretty much lost the will. I'm just going to say this and ignore everything else you say in response (sorry):

Bieksa is rad. He plays tough, hard minutes against tough competition and almost always comes out ahead. Advanced statistics and analytic support his radness.

I'm sure you disagree but I just don't care anymore.
Bieksa has a tendancy to have games where he makes incredibly stupid plays.

If your advanced stats don't show that then maybe you try paying a bit more attention to the game.

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01-27-2012, 04:47 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
I've argued this so much that I pretty much lost the will. I'll say this:

Bieksa is rad. He plays tough, hard minutes against tough competition and almost always comes out ahead. Advanced statistics and analytics support the argument that he is rad. The Canucks use advanced statistics and analytics to evaluate their players and that's how they assembled a rad team.

I'm sure you disagree, but I just don't care anymore. sorry if that sounds flippant, I just want to make it clear where I stand without getting into another argument about it.
I agree with everything but your use of the word "rad". You realize the 80s were 3 decades ago right?

I also think that casual kev has a richly deserved reputation for widely varying levels of play. The average bieksa is pretty good but the any given game bieksa can make you want to punch donkeys.

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01-27-2012, 07:07 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
I've argued this so much that I pretty much lost the will. I'll say this:

Bieksa is rad. He plays tough, hard minutes against tough competition and almost always comes out ahead. Advanced statistics and analytics support the argument that he is rad. The Canucks use advanced statistics and analytics to evaluate their players and that's how they assembled a rad team.

I'm sure you disagree, but I just don't care anymore. sorry if that sounds flippant, I just want to make it clear where I stand without getting into another argument about it.
talking to that guy is the biggest waste of time, don't do it

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Old
01-27-2012, 10:38 AM
  #54
PRNuck
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Originally Posted by mrbitterguy View Post
I agree with everything but your use of the word "rad". You realize the 80s were 3 decades ago right?

I also think that casual kev has a richly deserved reputation for widely varying levels of play. The average bieksa is pretty good but the any given game bieksa can make you want to punch donkeys.
Hah, that actually sums up Bieksa pretty well. He's not dependable, but he's totally radical. So he can't pivot both ways, he can do superman jump punches! Did you see that awesome sliding play where he broke up the pass? Who cares about the fact that his awesome sliding plays only accomplish something other than taking him out of position about 5% of the time. So what if he pinched and completely whiffed...actually you know what, his pinching never works out

I just wish he would settle the eff down and stop being so rad. I'm holding out hope that he brings it together in the playoffs again this year, he seemed to get much more serious about playing his position during last year's.

edit: Sorry this was OT, lost track of what thread I was in.


Last edited by PRNuck: 01-27-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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01-27-2012, 11:12 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mrbitterguy View Post
I agree with everything but your use of the word "rad". You realize the 80s were 3 decades ago right?

I also think that casual kev has a richly deserved reputation for widely varying levels of play. The average bieksa is pretty good but the any given game bieksa can make you want to punch donkeys.
The 80s can't be three decades ago, can it?

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Old
01-27-2012, 11:56 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kagee View Post
I bet he blasts by Tanev in development if he can keep progressing in strength/conditioning and defensive awareness.
I'll take that bet. I'll bet he doesn't.
Tanev has great awareness. Connauton doesn't. It's like comparing Hamhuis to Bieksa.

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01-27-2012, 03:06 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by B-rock View Post
I'll take that bet. I'll bet he doesn't.
Tanev has great awareness. Connauton doesn't. It's like comparing Hamhuis to Bieksa.
that's a really good comparison. kconn/tanev are like a younger kb4/hamhuis, except that i think kconn will have a better shot and higher offensive upside than bieksa.

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01-27-2012, 03:13 PM
  #58
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it's great he's getting some hype and by the sounds of things has taken good steps in his development, but I'm still not convinced he'll be a quality long-term NHLer.

Always considered him a boom/bust prospect, and given the Canucks history in developing prospects, the odds of a bust seem higher.

Always thought we had 3 solid prospects in our organization that are sure-fire NHLers - Hodgson, Tanev and Lack... past that, all are question marks as to whether they become NHLers, and Connauton is in that group.

Having said that, in a year or two we should start seeing signs of progression with our development system if Gillis has put as much focus on this as he says he has. I don't count Hodgson because he could have developed as well (or better) with any organization given his pedigree and skill-set. But if this organization really has put an emphasis on development as they claim to have, then in a few years we should start seeing some more rookies coming up - like Connauton, Sauve, Schroeder, Rodin, etc... until we see that however, I'm more inclined to go on history with this organization, and so far that has given me little faith in this development system.

I hope to be shocked with the great development we see in our system, but wouldn't be surprised if only the 3 sure-fires mentioned above were our only regular NHLers to come through in the next couple years.

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01-27-2012, 03:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Bieksa has a tendancy to have games where he makes incredibly stupid plays.

If your advanced stats don't show that then maybe you try paying a bit more attention to the game.
Who cares?? The point is he's all in all a very solid defensemen with several facets to this game. We can't expect each and every player to be perfect and I think that was billvanseattle's point.

The same goes for the Canucks prospects. I see so many people here labelling pretty much all prospects as "projects": "This guy will be a such and such type player at best". If these prospects aren't lighting the world on fire then their potential is diminished by some of you "experts" Take Luke Adam of the Sabres and Cody Hodgson for example. Luke Adam wins rookie of the year in the AHL last year and scores over a point per game (62 points in 57 games). Cody Hodgson, on the other hand, struggles to score at a high pace in the AHL (30 points in 52 games last year) and suffers some injury setbacks. Fast forward to this year when both are in the NHL and Hodgson has 13 goals and 29 points playing mostly on the 3rd line and Adam has 10 goals and 20 points playing predominantly in the top 6, including several stints between Vanek and Pominville on the Sabres' top line.

Point being, let's hold off on calling some of these kids' career potentials, especially Connauton's, and just enjoy watching them succeed and progress.

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01-27-2012, 03:30 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Who cares?? The point is he's all in all a very solid defensemen with several facets to this game. We can't expect each and every player to be perfect and I think that was billvanseattle's point.

The same goes for the Canucks prospects. I see so many people here labelling pretty much all prospects as "projects": "This guy will be a such and such type player at best". If these prospects aren't lighting the world on fire then their potential is diminished by some of you "experts" Take Luke Adam of the Sabres and Cody Hodgson for example. Luke Adam wins rookie of the year in the AHL last year and scores over a point per game (62 points in 57 games). Cody Hodgson, on the other hand, struggles to score at a high pace in the AHL (30 points in 52 games last year) and suffers some injury setbacks. Fast forward to this year when both are in the NHL and Hodgson has 13 goals and 29 points playing mostly on the 3rd line and Adam has 10 goals and 20 points playing predominantly in the top 6, including several stints between Vanek and Pominville on the Sabres' top line.

Point being, let's hold off on calling some of these kids' career potentials, especially Connauton's, and just enjoy watching them succeed and progress.
seriously.

None of us had predicted Kesler to becoming an elite, two-way power forward. Let them develop.

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01-27-2012, 03:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
seriously.

None of us had predicted Kesler to becoming an elite, two-way power forward. Let them develop.
I personally called Kesler the Hands of Stone on many occasions while Marcus Naslund still lead this team.

I revel in the awesomeness of Keslord almost always.

But than again I also said Hodgson was god before he even made it. But I was also a huge fan of his during those WJHC. The slick moves and passes made me jump.

So it really does vary, and many players do surprise later in their careers. I hope K-Con can make it, an eventual 3rd pair of K-Con Tanev would be great if Ballard is moved out for salary space.

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01-27-2012, 03:47 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Who cares?? The point is he's all in all a very solid defensemen with several facets to this game. We can't expect each and every player to be perfect and I think that was billvanseattle's point.
we can't expect to dress a bunch of 7 millioners, because that's exactly what a guy like Bieksa would be making if he had that consistency/putting it all together.

None of our dmen are like that.

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01-27-2012, 03:48 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
I've argued this so much that I pretty much lost the will. I'll say this:

Bieksa is rad. He plays tough, hard minutes against tough competition and almost always comes out ahead. Advanced statistics and analytics support the argument that he is rad. The Canucks use advanced statistics and analytics to evaluate their players and that's how they assembled a rad team.

I'm sure you disagree, but I just don't care anymore. sorry if that sounds flippant, I just want to make it clear where I stand without getting into another argument about it.
So as long as Hamhuis remains healthy and isn't out of the lineup for a prolonged time. An injury to Hamhuis is like an injury to both of them.

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01-27-2012, 04:21 PM
  #64
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KConn really needs to bulk up his 6'1 frame to about 200-205lbs. before he can really play some minutes in the NHL, so that isn't going to happen this offseason, another year or two with the Wolves and tacking on some muscle and working with his coaches should do wonders for his development.

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01-27-2012, 04:47 PM
  #65
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I'll take that bet. I'll bet he doesn't.
Tanev has great awareness. Connauton doesn't. It's like comparing Hamhuis to Bieksa.
Agreed. Mactavish said on the radio that Tanev is easily the best defenseman in all of the AHL and Connauton isn't far behind.

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01-27-2012, 04:47 PM
  #66
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That's because half the time Bieksa doesn't really get the concept of defense.

Notice that hardly anyone whines about Hamhuis? It's because he's consistently good. Bieksa has way too many games where he makes bonehead plays for no reason.
I like Hamhuis steady play for sure. He's in control and takes what is there. He'll play physical when he can, move the puck to whoever is open and play a good positional game. Very good player.

I love Bieksas aggressive play. He can affect momentum in a game any number of ways. He pushes offensively, takes the odd wild run at someone defensively and always sticks up for teammates. Some players try to hide out there, especially in big games. Bieksa tries to be the difference out there, especially in big games. Very good player.

I'm not going to try and change anyones mind anymore but they are equally important to this teams success. If we do have another Hamhuis and Bieksa on our hands in Tanev and Connauton, this team is going to good for a very long time.

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Old
01-27-2012, 05:00 PM
  #67
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Bieksa + Hamhuis: They have very complimentary skills that enhance them as a pairing. I'd rather Bieksa go out as opposed to Hamhuis, but losing either one diminishes them both. For example, Bieksa plays with a snarl in front of the net that Hamhuis doesn't quite match (he has a reputation for making the front of his net a scary place, according to Jeremy Roenick).

That said, please stay healthy, both of them! knock on wood!

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01-27-2012, 05:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kagee View Post
KConn really needs to bulk up his 6'1 frame to about 200-205lbs. before he can really play some minutes in the NHL, so that isn't going to happen this offseason, another year or two with the Wolves and tacking on some muscle and working with his coaches should do wonders for his development.
According to this article Kconn is 6'2" and 200lbs RIGHT NOW.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...097/story.html

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01-27-2012, 05:10 PM
  #69
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Hamhuis + whoever (eg., Ballard), would be a noticeable step down from Hamhuis-Bieksa (where Bieksa I think actually has had games this season where he's outplayed Hamhuis) but it would still be an acceptable 2nd pairing (though likely not a great long-term solution).

whoever (anybody not named Hamhuis) + Bieksa would be trouble.


Last edited by Barney Gumble: 01-27-2012 at 05:43 PM.
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01-27-2012, 05:15 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Kagee View Post
KConn really needs to bulk up his 6'1 frame to about 200-205lbs. before he can really play some minutes in the NHL, so that isn't going to happen this offseason, another year or two with the Wolves and tacking on some muscle and working with his coaches should do wonders for his development.
Did you even read the OP? It says Connauton has bulked up to 200 pounds in the third sentence.

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01-27-2012, 05:42 PM
  #71
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Did you even read the OP? It says Connauton has bulked up to 200 pounds in the third sentence.
Superdude beat you. >:l

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01-27-2012, 08:42 PM
  #72
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I've always thought Connauton was overhyped, but I just saw him live for the first time this week, and although the Wolves beat down the Heat, Connauton showed a really solid all-round game, with good skating, no defensive gaffs, and a couple good 1-timers. He's putting himself in the position to get his first call-up... if only to get his first NHL game in. He could also be improving his trade value immensely this season, leading all AHL d-men in goals, while improving in his own end.

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01-27-2012, 09:51 PM
  #73
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He's not a sure thing, but he's exactly what you want from a 2nd/3rd round draft pick. High ceiling. The odds of anyone picked outside the first round making the NHL is very low, so taking a flyer on some guys with a high ceiling seems like the right move to me.

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Old
01-28-2012, 01:21 AM
  #74
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hopefully K-Con catches up to Tanev in development and are able to work their way up to the show together.

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01-28-2012, 01:24 AM
  #75
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I think it plays out like this... another season or so in the AHL, learning how to play defense and getting bigger and stronger. Over that time he starts getting more and more call-ups and more protracted tastes of the NHL experience. With proper coaching, patience, lack of injuries, and a bit of luck, he could an all-around monster.

By the 2013-14 season, best case scenario, Connauton, Sauve and Tanev fill out our top 4 or 5. If they all max out their potential, it will be awesome.
The only defenseman out of those three who will have anything more than a call-up role with this roster is Tanev. Even so, Tanev isn't big enough to play shut down minutes and will probably be a 4-5 defenseman in his prime.

Maybe AV shakes his mancrush with Rome and plays Sauve in his minutes but that's really the only way I see Sauve getting a chunk of games in. Sauve sucks worse than Connauton.

The dark horse is McNally. He's an unknown quantity at this point;.

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