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Trade proposal thread 6.0... what to do?

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01-28-2012, 05:57 PM
  #301
Esa 10
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Someone please explain to me how the 5th to last guy cut from Team Canada at this years WJC isnt a blue chip prospect?...
Tom Pyatt and Cliche actually made Team Canada at WJC and they were never considered blue chippers. I don't think being a late cut affects his status one way or another. I do think Thomas remains a good prospect, an unfortunate injury in camp shouldn't significantly change his status. Most importantly, he's the only pure sniper with serious NHL potential in the system. While I'd include him in a package for an offensive upgrade beyond this year, I'm also hesitant to trade him for a rental.

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^^^ I just meant looking at their play this season but I agree. People saying to add more than one player have to realize that there is no where for them to play.
The only way 2 players make sense is if one is for the top 6 and the other an absolute beast on face-offs. No reason to add a bottom 6 forward unless it's a center with an ungodly winning %. They'll probably just add 1 F and a D for PP if they can find one.

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They have to go for the playoffs because if they do, they will be much easier to sell. Maloney has already stated he wants to ADD at the deadline and that he has money to do so.
Yeah, teams bleeding money need to make the play-offs. The finances become more important than asset management. That's why I don't think Dallas makes moves unless it helps them win this year either. They need play-off revenue desperately. Same with the Devils. I think they keep Parise and let him walk if it means a couple of home dates in the play-offs.

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01-28-2012, 06:18 PM
  #302
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Nope.
So you nix a potential advantage in the playoffs as to keep 1 year of a player's ELC...

18 years has been a long time. I was 2 when they last won the cup. I don't remember it. I'd like to witness a cup. SC appearances aren't something to take for granted. This team is special this year, there is no guarantee that it will have the same dynamic and success next season.

If Kreider seems ready, and deemed and upgrade, then I'm sorry, no matter what logic you use saying that keeping him an extra year to not burn that ELC year, it won't matter. Torts has said that whoever is going to benefit the team will play. If he thinks so he will, no matter how logical it is to keep him down.. If he doesn't then I really don't think he's deemed NHL ready by the scouts and coaching and I would be fine by that.

But if you're basing your decision economically that's silly. If it helps the team you do it 100%. You don't hold out because of contractual reasons, you figure out that problem later. Right now the problem is winning a cup.

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01-28-2012, 07:27 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Esa 10 View Post
They need play-off revenue desperately. Same with the Devils. I think they keep Parise and let him walk if it means a couple of home dates in the play-offs.
Exactly. They could be better off long term by trading Parise (assuming he is going to walk) but their short term issues are more pressing. They are looking at upwards of a 20 million dollar loss if they don't make the playoffs...so even a first round appearance and a couple extra home games could cut that number by 20%.

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01-28-2012, 07:34 PM
  #304
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So you nix a potential advantage in the playoffs as to keep 1 year of a player's ELC...

18 years has been a long time. I was 2 when they last won the cup. I don't remember it. I'd like to witness a cup. SC appearances aren't something to take for granted. This team is special this year, there is no guarantee that it will have the same dynamic and success next season.

If Kreider seems ready, and deemed and upgrade, then I'm sorry, no matter what logic you use saying that keeping him an extra year to not burn that ELC year, it won't matter. Torts has said that whoever is going to benefit the team will play. If he thinks so he will, no matter how logical it is to keep him down.. If he doesn't then I really don't think he's deemed NHL ready by the scouts and coaching and I would be fine by that.

But if you're basing your decision economically that's silly. If it helps the team you do it 100%. You don't hold out because of contractual reasons, you figure out that problem later. Right now the problem is winning a cup.
Your going to throw a rookie into the mix at the most important time of the year? The one time of the year where rookie mistakes can literally lose everything for you? No thanks. I don't want Kreider in because of both the 1 year on the ELC and I don't want him being thrown into that situation.

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01-28-2012, 08:36 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Your going to throw a rookie into the mix at the most important time of the year? The one time of the year where rookie mistakes can literally lose everything for you? No thanks. I don't want Kreider in because of both the 1 year on the ELC and I don't want him being thrown into that situation.
I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure he does not burn a year off his contract if he plays SC games. He would have the benefit of being allowed to play 9 games if I am wrong, before his burn year begins. I am sure if he tears it up in those 9 games Torts would keep playing him. However this scenario is highly unlikely. The only player I can think of who has gone from NCAA to pros in SC is Ken Dryden w/Montreal.

BTW are rookie mistakes more egregious than veteran mistakes.

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01-28-2012, 08:54 PM
  #306
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Rangers have had players make their NHL debut in the playoffs.

Richter and Korpikoski off the top of my head.

That said, doubt Kreider does.

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01-28-2012, 09:57 PM
  #307
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Didn't Doug Weight make his debut in the '92 playoffs?

Either way, no chance Kreider is in the NHL until next year. It isn't a realistic scenario.

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01-28-2012, 10:07 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Rangers have had players make their NHL debut in the playoffs.

Richter and Korpikoski off the top of my head.

That said, doubt Kreider does.
And Amonte and Doug "Wright" as well

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01-28-2012, 10:26 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Didn't Doug Weight make his debut in the '92 playoffs?

Either way, no chance Kreider is in the NHL until next year. It isn't a realistic scenario.
Yeah...Amonte and Weight came right out of the 1991 NCAA's to the 1st round series in the Caps...they played fine. The rest of the team sucked.

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01-28-2012, 10:35 PM
  #310
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Is it too late to trade everyone, tank for Yakupov and rebuild again?

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01-28-2012, 10:51 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Is it too late to trade everyone, tank for Yakupov and rebuild again?
Totally too late... No way Columbus breaks 60 points

Just kidding on the sarcasm...

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01-28-2012, 10:54 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Someone please explain to me how the 5th to last guy cut from Team Canada at this years WJC isnt a blue chip prospect?

I'm not saying he will become a star in the NHL. But he has done nothing to make people think otherwise except his "size", which is an old, outdated, knee-jerk declaration. It's not 1998 and the Legion of Doom is dead and buried.

Thomas is easily one of the best pure scorers among amateurs.
Mark Stone is a future 60 goal scorer!!!!!!

For real though, you must be new to following the WJC.

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01-28-2012, 10:56 PM
  #313
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Not to mention, the number of blue chip prospects league-wide can probably be counted on two hands.

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01-29-2012, 12:07 AM
  #314
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What do you guys think of a staal for sitter trade ?

Of course only if he does a sign and trade .

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01-29-2012, 12:10 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by we want the cup 94 View Post
What do you guys think of a staal for sitter trade ?

Of course only if he does a sign and trade .
I'll assume you mean Suter.

On that basis, no thanks. Suter is a favorite of mine, but why would you make what is really a "shakeup" kind of trade when the team is 1st in the East? Sure, it's an improvement, but it seems like making a trade just to make a trade.

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01-29-2012, 12:16 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I'll assume you mean Suter.

On that basis, no thanks. Suter is a favorite of mine, but why would you make what is really a "shakeup" kind of trade when the team is 1st in the East? Sure, it's an improvement, but it seems like making a trade just to make a trade.
I'm sorry, but a Marc Staal straight up trade for Ryan Suter is something I'd think long and hard about. Suter is basically Staal but even better on the defensive side and his offense is better.

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01-29-2012, 12:21 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
I'm sorry, but a Marc Staal straight up trade for Ryan Suter is something I'd think long and hard about. Suter is basically Staal but even better on the defensive side and his offense is better.
Would rather not risk trading 3 years of Staal on a cap friendly contract for 25-40 games of Ryan Suter.

We can't look at trades like this so black and white.

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01-29-2012, 12:22 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
I'm sorry, but a Marc Staal straight up trade for Ryan Suter is something I'd think long and hard about. Suter is basically Staal but even better on the defensive side and his offense is better.
A bit apprehensive given that Ryan Suter will test free agency this summer...if it were Suter as a rental, I'd be okay. I'd look for a cheaper alternative, however.

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01-29-2012, 12:27 AM
  #319
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Sorry yeah Suter damn iPhone autocorrect .

I'm saying if he signs a long term sign and trade with us . Maybe Danny G and AA for Suter and a 2nd

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01-29-2012, 12:30 AM
  #320
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I wouldn't trade Staal for Suter straight up just for the fact Suter will probably get 6-7 mill per on the FA market this summer and Staal is still under a cap friendly contract for the next 3 years. I'd obviously rather have Suter if the contracts were the same.

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01-29-2012, 12:31 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Mark Stone is a future 60 goal scorer!!!!!!

For real though, you must be new to following the WJC.
Don't insult me, please.

The only reason why I brought it up the WJC is because is shows that even though he's battling through an up-and-down season, he was still one of the last guys cut. Last season he dominated the OHL and was recognized as one of the best pure goal scorers in the league.

I have no reason why Rangers fans sleep on this kid. He is hands down the best goal scoring prospect we have in the system, which is why I think he's a blue chipper.

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01-29-2012, 02:41 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by we want the cup 94 View Post
Sorry yeah Suter damn iPhone autocorrect .

I'm saying if he signs a long term sign and trade with us . Maybe Danny G and AA for Suter and a 2nd
That's a really tough one and not really realistic at all.

Yes, I'd definitely trade Staal straight up for Suter as a player. However, if he first signs, Nashville wouldn't trade him for Staal. I don't see how you can logistically work out any kind of assurance that he signs here after we move Staal for him. The issue for Nashville is that he doesn't want to sign before the trade deadline. Why would he do it for us?

The 2nd issue is you're probably looking at $6.5m on a retirement contract or ~$7m-$7.5m on a normal deal. That's roughly $3m more than Staal's cap hit. Basically, you've no cap space left to add a top 6 forward next year. Either Kreider hits the road running or Hagelin explodes offensively or we're having the same issues at forward next year as now. That's a lot of responsibility resting on a rookie and a sophmore. Is Suter's presence instead of Staal enough of an upgrade to risk standing pat at forward? Of course, you can create extra space by trading Dubi for picks / cheap contract, but at that point you're really starting to risk messing with chemistry. Removing both Staal and Dubi could really alter the dynamics of this team, not to mention opening up a new hole at forward.

There is a counterargument to all this and it has to do with the PP. We are 11th in scoring. The PP is 25th. With an average to decent PP this team's offense is around #5 in the league. One could reasonably argue that we don't need to make changes to the forward lines at ES. Just fix the PP and this becomes one of the better offensive teams in the league to go with a top 3 GAA and PK. The forwards in place are a big reason this team is so good defensively. Is Suter the solution to the trouble on the PP? If he is, perhaps no other real changes to the roster are needed.

I've no idea if Suter is a solution to this PP. Almost everybody thought Richards would improve it significantly. That's why I'd find it hard to move Staal for him and the cap space that could be used to add a scoring forward. As to your other question, I'd much rather trade Staal alone than Girardi + Anisimov. Staal and Girardi are pretty much interchangeable to me and Anisimov is far more valuable to this team than a late 2nd.

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01-29-2012, 04:07 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Someone please explain to me how the 5th to last guy cut from Team Canada at this years WJC isnt a blue chip prospect?

I'm not saying he will become a star in the NHL. But he has done nothing to make people think otherwise except his "size", which is an old, outdated, knee-jerk declaration. It's not 1998 and the Legion of Doom is dead and buried.

Thomas is easily one of the best pure scorers among amateurs.
Think of it like this, as a rule of thumb.

A bluechip forwards prospect will score 65+ pts.

30 forwards in this leagu scores 65pts or more in a season.

A players prime is 10 years.

30/10=3 bluechip prospect per year.

The top 3-4 forwards don't play in the WJC (RNH, Landeskog & co).

A WJC contains two yearly classes, so there basically ought to be 6-3=3 bluechip prospects in each WJC.

There are 12 forward on Canada, the US, Sweden and Russia. Finland had the 2nd best forward in the tourney.

If you look solely at the fact that he was like the 5th cut from Canada -- no matter how you slice it that's a disaster and he could be written off as a bust yesterday...

...but I think that's a stupid way to look at it. Thomas works extremely hard on the ice, he is a good PKer, he is hard to get a hold of -- and he shots the puck pretty well.

I think he is a good prospect and a good pick. But we should definitely talk about him as a Dawes/Prucha/Zucc type if prospect, instead ridiculous comparisons like MSL and co. Comparing him to MSL is like comparing Jonny Malkin to John Leclair.

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01-29-2012, 06:21 AM
  #324
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There are a number of teams showing interest in Bolts C Dominic Moore, who has been shopped by GM Steve Yzerman. The Senators are looking for a forward to play on the top three lines and may make a pitch ... The Blackhawks studied the possibility before acquiring C Brendan Morrison from Calgary Friday night
http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/01/28/...ertebrae-issue

Moore would help the Rangers. Very good on draws. Very good skater. An annoying gnat to play against. He drove the Penguins crazy last spring which raises his stature.

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Why should anybody be surprised that Dallas Stars captain Brenden Morrow might be on the market? There are lots of miles on that chassis from all the punishment heís taken and dished out, and he just turned 33. Heís still an effective player, but this is the classic case of the Stars checking the level of teamsí interest before Morrow hits the free-agent marketplace on July 1, 2013.
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The Stars would be looking for younger bodies, obviously. Dustin Penner, nowhere near the player Morrow is, fetched a first-round draft pick and Colten Teubert last February when he had one year left at $4.25 million. Iíd say a first-rounder for sure and and a top-six player or top four defenceman, for sure.
Why does everyone keep bringing up Penner? That trade was a disaster for LA. Morrow is twice the player Penner ever was or is but still trading a #1 pick plus a young top 6 F or top 4 D is big price to pay for a player with a $4.1M cap hit left in the last year of the CBA.

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I know the Columbus Blue Jackets would like to divest themselves of Jeff Carterís contract (He is in year one of the 11-year package, with a cap hit of $5.272 million), but this is a tough sell because he just turned 27, which means his deal doesnít end until heís closing in on 40. Carter and Rick Nash seemed like a fit the day of the Philadelphia Flyers trade last June, except that both like to shoot. Carter isnít a playmaking centre. This deal went sour almost from the beginning when Carter went into hiding and didnít talk to the media, upset heíd been moved from the Flyers. Carter needs to be on a contender; heís never warmed to being a Blue Jacket. The Jackets need a team with cap room and young bodies in return. I donít see an obvious fit someplace else, although the Jackets would probably be looking at the Los Angeles Kings, because Carter and Mike Richards were a tandem in Philadelphia and one of those could play the wing. Plus, Los Angeles would have a young goalie to deal in Jonathan Bernier. The Kings have $50 million already tied up in players next year.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...ers+%2f+Hockey)

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01-29-2012, 06:36 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Don't insult me, please.

The only reason why I brought it up the WJC is because is shows that even though he's battling through an up-and-down season, he was still one of the last guys cut. Last season he dominated the OHL and was recognized as one of the best pure goal scorers in the league.

I have no reason why Rangers fans sleep on this kid. He is hands down the best goal scoring prospect we have in the system, which is why I think he's a blue chipper.
Because scoring a ton in a teenager's league doesn't often/always translate to the highest level.

Especially when the player is 5-9, 170. If that. And completely one dimensional.

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