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Trade proposal thread 6.0... what to do?

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Old
01-27-2012, 05:58 PM
  #151
FATCHAMALA11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stepan is 21.

Callahan is 26.

Stepan is half a decade younger.

Eventually Callahan wont be a Ranger.

Even if Callahan's NHL career lasts longer than expected, it doesn't change anything. Stepan is a winner. He's NOT being dealt. Not for Perry. This isn't a video game.
Stepan isn't half a Callahan or a Perry.

Im sorry but this board seriously overrates Stepan and AA and I think both are nice players.. I'd package both for Ryan or Perry in a minute. You would think Step and AA are Yzerman and Federov.


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01-27-2012, 06:04 PM
  #152
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When I visit this thread, I am always reminded how ignorant many people are of a team dynamic.

My first year in the minor leagues, the Syracuse Blazers won the North American Hockey Lague championship with a team that was 2nd or 3rd of 7 teams in talent. The team had a terrific chemistry and blew through the regular season and the playoffs. The next year the Blazers were loaded with talent, far superior to any team in the league. We lost in the semi finals. Incidentally we lost to the Johnstown Jets and the Carlson Broithers, a team that developed terrific chemistry after a fight with fans in Utica. That's the same incident that was portrayed in Slapshot to galvanize that team.

The bottom line is that teams win championships, not the best talent. Once again, Boston proved that last year. Detroit proves it often. And the Flyers are a textbook example that fantasy hockey just doesn't work.

I love this team and much of the reason is that this is a team far greater than the sum of its' parts. Making any move that would rattle the chemistry is just flat stupid. And Sather, to his credit, has not shaken this team at the deadline for several years. Why would he do it now?

What the Rangers need to do is what the 1980 Islanders did -- take players who had fallen out of their core (Billy Harris, Dave Lewis) and trade them for a key missing piece (Butch Goring) Anisimov seems to have fallen out of the core. He was used sparingly last year down the stretch and in the playoffs. He's the only roster player of consequence I could see being moved.

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01-27-2012, 06:06 PM
  #153
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Stepan is one of the smartest players on a hockey team that's not the brightest bunch of guys. Would I trade him for Perry? Yes. Would I try to trade Dubinsky and Anisimov before Stepan? Yes. (Salary cap hits and RFA status play into this)

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01-27-2012, 06:33 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I love this team and much of the reason is that this is a team far greater than the sum of its' parts. Making any move that would rattle the chemistry is just flat stupid. And Sather, to his credit, has not shaken this team at the deadline for several years. Why would he do it now?
Exactly why I'm all for re-acquiring Prospal... Torts is familiar with him, our current players have played with him, he has proven chemistry with Gaborik, and he adds veteran experience and scoring depth (also depth as center if we endure injuries). Perfect fit if we can land him at the right price.

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01-27-2012, 06:46 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Exactly why I'm all for re-acquiring Prospal... Torts is familiar with him, our current players have played with him, he has proven chemistry with Gaborik, and he adds veteran experience and scoring depth (also depth as center if we endure injuries). Perfect fit if we can land him at the right price.
I like Vinny Prospal and understand that attraction, but the guy is not a good fit on this team. His speed is a major issue. Any player we get needs to be able to backcheck effectively from below the offensive goal line all the way to the defensive faceoff dot. He isn't fast enough to be our low forechecker in the offensive zone and he isn't fast enough to forecheck effectively in the neutral zone.

I'm sorry, but Prospal just isn't a great idea.

Plus, I think his age is catching up with him anyway. He had a good short stretch at the end of the regular season last year after nearly a full season of rest on his body, but then was completely ineffective in the playoffs. He had a good start to this season, but only has 2g and 1a in his last 15 games, nothing in 8. I just don't think he can sustain what we would be wanting out of him for an extended playoff run, which is the only reason you acquire players at the deadline in the first place.


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01-27-2012, 06:47 PM
  #156
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why does a trade automatically seem to mean that team chemistry will be affected?

Isn't entirely possible that it could be strengthened? Or just not change at all?

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01-27-2012, 06:54 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
why does a trade automatically seem to mean that team chemistry will be affected?

Isn't entirely possible that it could be strengthened? Or just not change at all?
It's entirely possible, you're right. But we already have fantastic team chemistry. That isn't something that needs improvement. I'm not averse to really risking the chemistry (through subtraction) in the right situation, but I don't think that situation exists this year. Trading a 2nd rounder or Chris Thomas for an addition risks chemistry too, but I'm much more willing to risk chemistry through addition at this particular point. Why? Because if an addition screws up the chemistry, he can always be benched and we're right back where we started while a subtraction wouldn't be replaced if the risk turns negative.

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01-27-2012, 07:01 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATCHAMALA11 View Post
Stepan isn't half a Callahan or a Perry.

Im sorry but this board seriously overrates Stepan and AA and I think both are nice players.. I'd package both for Ryan or Perry in a minute. You would think Step and AA are Yzerman and Federov.
Stepan at 20 years old scored 20 goals and put up 45 points.

As a 21 year old second year player, he's centering the top line, is leading NYR forwards with a +18, and already has 31 points halfway through the season.

Callahan didn't crack 20 goals 40 points until he was 23 in his third NHL season.

And Perry has a whopping 8 more points than Stepan.


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01-27-2012, 07:05 PM
  #159
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Corey Perry has been a winner wherever he played . He was an awesome junior star and he is a rising star in this league or even better... a shining star . He will always be better then Stepan IMO . He plays a much more in your face style and he loves the play in the corners or in the crease...he would fit the Tort mold TOTALLY but in all honesty we will never get him straight up for Stepan .

I don't know what the love is for Stepan...I watch the games on tv and I just don't see what some guys see here ...I am going to assume that those of you that get to watch him play at the Garden every night get to see him play from the start of his shift until the end which is something we just do not get via tv viewing and that gives you the real look at his skills . I guess I will have to start paying more attention since some of you would not trade him even up for Perry . I think it would be a no brainer to do that trade .

I also think Dale Hunter would be in the hunt for Perry since he had him in London ...and I think Prust and Girardi were also on that club ! I could see Semin and something else being offered for Perry by the Cap team .

It is great fun being an armchair GM !
You don't know what you're watching. Its not the TV's fault.

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01-27-2012, 07:05 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATCHAMALA11 View Post
Stepan isn't half a Callahan or a Perry.

Im sorry but this board seriously overrates Stepan and AA and I think both are nice players.. I'd package both for Ryan or Perry in a minute. You would think Step and AA are Yzerman and Federov.
And that's why you aren't a GM

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01-27-2012, 07:09 PM
  #161
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I like Vinny Prospal and understand that attraction, but the guy is not a good fit on this team. His speed is a major issue. Any player we get needs to be able to backcheck effectively from below the offensive goal line all the way to the defensive faceoff dot. He isn't fast enough to be our low forechecker in the offensive zone and he isn't fast enough to forecheck effectively in the neutral zone.
Prospal was always responsible defensively when he was with the Rangers. Torts never seemed to have an issue with his defensive play in terms of giving him playing time and not dropping him down the line-up the way he does with other forwards. Regarding his speed, he would be no slower than forwards like Rupp, Prust, Mitchell... They seem to be holding up fine with our style of play.

Quote:
I'm sorry, but Prospal just isn't a great idea.
He is when you consider all factors. He's not going to cost as much on the open market as the more coveted available players, whereby a bidding competition could seriously drive up the asking price of some of those players. Coaching staff and team is already familiar with the player and absolutely no concerns there. Rather keep our 2012 1st rounder and not lose any of our top tier prospects at the trade deadline. Targetting Prospal allows us to do that.

Quote:
Plus, I think his age is catching up with him anyway. He had a good short stretch at the end of the regular season last year after nearly a full season of rest on his body, but then was completely ineffective in the playoffs. He had a good start to this season, but only has 2g and 1a in his last 15 games, nothing in 8. I just don't think he can sustain what we would be wanting out of him for an extended playoff run, which is the only reason you acquire players at the deadline in the first place.
Yes his production has decreased as of recently, but he's also playing on the worst team in the league... Up until a couple weeks ago, he was 1 point behind Nash for the team lead in scoring.

Bottom line for me is that I don't see the Rangers winning a bidding war with other teams, without giving up our 1st and/or one of our best prospects. If other players available are Option A, I'm much more comfortable going for an Option B. Less reward but less risk.

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01-27-2012, 07:16 PM
  #162
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Luckily, the people being paid for their knowledge and decisions view Stepan as an integral part of the future.

Its pure fantasy to try and justify trading budding players like that for "proven" highly paid commodities.

This isn't a video game. This isn't pre lockout hockey. This is real life. This is a salary capped leagued.

The Rangers are NOT nor should they trade Stepan, a budding star in his own right.

My Honda Fit is more economical, more efficient, will drive me farther, will remain reliable longer then my neighbor's "pimped out" Ford Escalade.


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01-27-2012, 07:29 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You don't know what you're watching. Its not the TV's fault.
LOL... I know what I am watching...I just don't see the star value that you view in your rose colored glasses for Stepan . He possibly could be a good # 2 Center...someday ...but for now he is just a stopgap because we have no # 1 and on any team that had depth at CI he would at this point be slotted #3 but because of our glaring holes he gets #1 minutes and # 1A spot until things heat up and then Brad Richards becomes the clutch guy . I actually hope I am wrong since I am a Ranger fan and it works out as well as you think it will...time will tell . Corey Perry fixes every offensive problem we currently have right now including our PP .

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01-27-2012, 07:36 PM
  #164
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stand pat!!!!!! this thread borders on lunacy,,, trade girarditrade stepanlol 2 core players who will be wearing ranger sweaters for a long long time. wow i know its a proposal thread but really? the pp doesnt need different players it needs a different battle plan. lets try moving and shooting the puck towards the net going after rebounds. attack the net.66 points at the break. trade hagelin???the guy sparks every line he joins.trade kreider lol funny.just leave it alone were good to go........

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01-27-2012, 07:40 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by FATCHAMALA11 View Post
Stepan isn't half a Callahan or a Perry.

Im sorry but this board seriously overrates Stepan and AA and I think both are nice players.. I'd package both for Ryan or Perry in a minute. You would think Step and AA are Yzerman and Federov.
Regardless of whether you believe Stepan isn't "half" of Callahan (that could be interpreted as him being 3/4s of Callahan or superior to Callahan, actually ), the fact is that Stepan will be a Ranger as long as they can afford him, and they will make room to pay him the money he deserves past his second contract.

He's been the Rangers best forward this season, if not the "best", than the most effective offensively. Tortorella has called Stepan this team's best forward on numerous occasions, and his play shows why. When you're on a team with Marian Gaborik, Ryan Callahan, and Brad Richards, and Tortorella calls you his best forward...you're his best forward, plain and simple. He has reverted back to his bread & butter, he is a pass first player and he is showing why he is a pass first player. At 22, he has become a driving offensive force on the best team in the East, and is being trusted in all situations. He is going to continue to grow and become this team's first developed first line center in...I don't even know if this team has ever developed and held onto a drafted first line center.

In regards to Perry, I, personally, would not move Stepan for Perry. It's an outlandish opinion at this point in time based off of Perry's play the last 3 years, but I'm going to stick by it, because I believe that Stepan is going to be just as good, if not better than Perry by 2014. Perry is great. Top notch player--but I think his season last year was a slight blip. He'll be a 70 point pest for the next few years, and after that, there's a pretty good chance he wears down and his production decreases dramatically. This is just a prediction, doesn't really have anything to do with the trade, just my opinion of him as a player now and in the future.

In short--Stepan is not going anywhere.

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01-27-2012, 07:42 PM
  #166
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TSN media day had insider trading.....mentioned Rutuu may be moved next week and said Rangers one of the teams........yes please

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01-27-2012, 07:50 PM
  #167
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Regardless of whether you believe Stepan isn't "half" of Callahan (that could be interpreted as him being 3/4s of Callahan or superior to Callahan, actually ), the fact is that Stepan will be a Ranger as long as they can afford him, and they will make room to pay him the money he deserves past his second contract.

He's been the Rangers best forward this season, if not the "best", than the most effective offensively. Tortorella has called Stepan this team's best forward on numerous occasions, and his play shows why. When you're on a team with Marian Gaborik, Ryan Callahan, and Brad Richards, and Tortorella calls you his best forward...you're his best forward, plain and simple. He has reverted back to his bread & butter, he is a pass first player and he is showing why he is a pass first player. At 22, he has become a driving offensive force on the best team in the East, and is being trusted in all situations. He is going to continue to grow and become this team's first developed first line center in...I don't even know if this team has ever developed and held onto a drafted first line center.



In regards to Perry, I, personally, would not move Stepan for Perry. It's an outlandish opinion at this point in time based off of Perry's play the last 3 years, but I'm going to stick by it, because I believe that Stepan is going to be just as good, if not better than Perry by 2014. Perry is great. Top notch player--but I think his season last year was a slight blip. He'll be a 70 point pest for the next few years, and after that, there's a pretty good chance he wears down and his production decreases dramatically. This is just a prediction, doesn't really have anything to do with the trade, just my opinion of him as a player now and in the future.

In short--Stepan is not going anywhere.

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01-27-2012, 08:00 PM
  #168
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And that's why you aren't a GM
Yea its good to meet one like you.

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01-27-2012, 08:10 PM
  #169
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Yea its good to meet one like you.
LOL...love the wit ! They get pretty defensive around here sometimes when you take a different view of a player . I have deduced that the board is full of family members and player agents LOL !

WOW...what a resume...Memorial Cup , Stanley Cup , Olympic GOLD , ...pretty good IMO .Stepan has some big shoes to fill !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corey_Perry


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01-27-2012, 08:21 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by FATCHAMALA11 View Post
Stepan isn't half a Callahan or a Perry.

Im sorry but this board seriously overrates Stepan and AA and I think both are nice players.. I'd package both for Ryan or Perry in a minute. You would think Step and AA are Yzerman and Federov.
Anisimov, yes. But I would have my doubts about including either Stepan or Hagelin in any trade.

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01-27-2012, 08:30 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stepan at 20 years old scored 20 goals and put up 45 points.

As a 21 year old second year player, he's centering the top line, is leading NYR forwards with a +18, and already has 31 points halfway through the season.

Callahan didn't crack 20 goals 40 points until he was 23 in his third NHL season.

And Perry has a whopping 8 more points than Stepan.
...and you don't know that the halfway mark is a long way before 47 games !

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01-27-2012, 08:31 PM
  #172
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Yeah 6 games sure is a long time hyuk hyuk hyuk!

Perry had a fluke year. He's not scoring 50 goals again.

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01-27-2012, 08:31 PM
  #173
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Anisimov, yes. But I would have my doubts about including either Stepan or Hagelin in any trade.
If you twisted my arm and forced me to choose which of the three I would trade, I'd pick Anisimov 5/5 times.

That said, I would rather keep all three. People are down on Anisimov right now, and this has happened for a one months stretch just about every season he has been at the NHL level. He is a frustrating player, that I am not denying, but he is still young and developing. He's skilled, smart, and is trusted by Tortorella in important situations. He's never going to be a 70+ point player, but he's always going to be a steady 40-50 point 2nd/3rd line forward who is better than most in his own end. Great teammate. You keep players like Anisimov around when the team is succeeding.

I don't see a big splash happening right now--the team is playing too well, and most of the "coveted" pieces on this team are not going to be traded, as they are too important to this team. I think people are too fascinated with the idea of the trade, and thinking of ways they could get an effective player without giving one up--realistically, a rental is the only way to even consider doing this. Fascinated with new ideas and "potential" for more. What more do ya want? 2nd best record this team has ever had at this point, yet people still keep insisting on tossing important players at Anaheim, Columbus, and Nashville for their important players. Yes, this team still has some "holes", but every team in the NHL has holes. No team is perfect. This team is basically as close to "perfect" as it gets. Excellent defense, amazing goaltending, above average offense, gamebreakers on offense, good young talent, leadership, and a strong pipeline of prospects. If this team makes a move, it'll be a moderate trade, like a prospect and a pick for Moen, or a high pick and a solid prospect for Ruutu.

You're not going to get Bobby Ryan, Jeff Carter, or Corey Perry without giving up a major piece from your roster, and a 1st place team is not going to do that. It makes no sense.

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01-27-2012, 08:42 PM
  #174
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...and you don't know that the halfway mark is a long way before 47 games !
6 games is a "long way". No.

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01-27-2012, 08:47 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Regardless of whether you believe Stepan isn't "half" of Callahan (that could be interpreted as him being 3/4s of Callahan or superior to Callahan, actually ), the fact is that Stepan will be a Ranger as long as they can afford him, and they will make room to pay him the money he deserves past his second contract.

He's been the Rangers best forward this season, if not the "best", than the most effective offensively. Tortorella has called Stepan this team's best forward on numerous occasions, and his play shows why. When you're on a team with Marian Gaborik, Ryan Callahan, and Brad Richards, and Tortorella calls you his best forward...you're his best forward, plain and simple. He has reverted back to his bread & butter, he is a pass first player and he is showing why he is a pass first player. At 22, he has become a driving offensive force on the best team in the East, and is being trusted in all situations. He is going to continue to grow and become this team's first developed first line center in...I don't even know if this team has ever developed and held onto a drafted first line center.

In regards to Perry, I, personally, would not move Stepan for Perry. It's an outlandish opinion at this point in time based off of Perry's play the last 3 years, but I'm going to stick by it, because I believe that Stepan is going to be just as good, if not better than Perry by 2014. Perry is great. Top notch player--but I think his season last year was a slight blip. He'll be a 70 point pest for the next few years, and after that, there's a pretty good chance he wears down and his production decreases dramatically. This is just a prediction, doesn't really have anything to do with the trade, just my opinion of him as a player now and in the future.

In short--Stepan is not going anywhere.
Great post Steve. Agree on all accounts.

But I can't go without busting your chops. Stepan is 21 not 22.

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