Even if he is marginally better to the point where he fits on our 2nd pairing, does that mean we push Gilbert or Smid to the top pairing then? Does that really help us?
Does it hurt us if we have a 2nd pairing quality d-man playing on our third pairing?
MPS for Subban would be as high as I go for the guy. Unless Reinhart is gone when we pick then I might consider trading the pick. But all of Murray, Dumba, and Reinhart have more potential and better attitudes then Subban.
I'm a huge Reinhart fan as well, Id hold the pick unless Weber gets mentioned.
Imo, nothing can be done to fix this deal. Our 1st needs to be removed and I don't see the benefit in giving up on Paajarvi yet either. I don't see anything Montreal could offer up that would interest me enough to give up an MPS + a lottery pick package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto
cant afford to give up smid, maybe:
To van:
MPS
CBJ 2nd
Backup from CBJ
To Edm:
Schneider
To CBJ:
Khabby
EDM 3rd
Paajarvi + Khabby + a 3rd for Schneider? Seriously?
Maybe i need to spend some time out of this thread. Every proposal in here I see as screwing us badly.
Paajarvi + Khabby + a 3rd for Schneider? Seriously?
Maybe i need to spend some time out of this thread. Every proposal in here I see as screwing us badly.
I agree...I'm not ready to give up on MPS just yet either. He's still adapting to the North American style of the game. Look at the Sedins...they were 30-40-50 point players for the first 5 years of their careers and now look at them. I'm not saying MPS will be putting up points like they are in the future, but holy hell give him some time before he's a castoff. All the tools are there, he just needs more time to adapt...he's not even old enough to hit the clubs south of the border yet. A bit premature to give up on him and start throwing him into proposals, unless the return is something way too good to pass up on.
Proposal from main board. Interesting one. From a Nuck fan
To VAN
Magnus Pajaarvi
Ladislav Smid
To EDM
Cory Schneider
Marc Methot
CBJ 2012 2nd Round
To CBJ
Mason Raymond
Nikolai Khabibulin
I like Schneider, but not enough to give up the finally developed Oilers Shutdown defensemen. The Oilers aren't exactly flush with top-4 defensemen, losing one, like Smid, would be brutal.
Nothing beats the Oilers concerned about their division rivals to the point where they want to make them better for the playoffs by giving guys away.
Seriously, why does the league seem like it needs to do Vancouver a favour?
Edit: Can we also stop the idea of the Oilers' trading their 1st rounder in 2012, likely top-3, for anything short of a TRUE elite defenseman. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that guys like Subban or Myers turn into Bryan McCabe or Roman Hamrlik instead of a Scott Neidermayer or Shea Weber.
As much as I've liked Smid's emergence this season, I take that deal and run giggling into the night.
I'm a HUGE fan of Schneider, IMO getting him would be huge for this team. Khabby's almost done, and I have zero faith that Dubnyk will be anything more than an average backup. This franchise NEEDS to shore up its goaltending, and I think Schneider is on his way to being one of the top 10 goalies in the NHL.
I see more than my fair share of Nucks games where I live, and IMO he is the real deal. All he needs is the opportunity.
^^^^. As I've said many times here, goaltending is the most important position IMO. Locking up a guy to be your #1G for 10 years would be an opportunity I would pounce on if given the chance.
Edit: Can we also stop the idea of the Oilers' trading their 1st rounder in 2012, likely top-3, for anything short of a TRUE elite defenseman. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that guys like Subban or Myers turn into Bryan McCabe or Roman Hamrlik instead of a Scott Neidermayer or Shea Weber.
The only way it makes sense to me is if we trade down (a little bit) and get a second piece that we really need. I'd be ok picking up a Subban or Myers and swapping firsts with either Montreal or Buffalo (plus throwing in one of our prospects like Marincin)
The only way it makes sense to me is if we trade down (a little bit) and get a second piece that we really need. I'd be ok picking up a Subban or Myers and swapping firsts with either Montreal or Buffalo (plus throwing in one of our prospects like Marincin)
I would be ok in the situation too, though without a prospect added. The reality is this rebuild in no where near completely, so giving away top-5 picks for players who aren't truly established seems insane.
One more thought regarding Schneider: he's an RFA after this season. Unless he's content with the idea of being a backup and making backup money (which I highly doubt), he's going to be moved. A pro-active team that needs a goalie would be all over that, but I expect nothing of the sort from Tambo. Instead, he'll continue to publicly extoll the virtues of his MVP Khabby while privately conferring with Stu over who he plans to take with his lottery pick in 2013.
^^^^. As I've said many times here, goaltending is the most important position IMO. Locking up a guy to be your #1G for 10 years would be an opportunity I would pounce on if given the chance.
I agree goaltending is important, but not so much that you have to blow up your team. See Van, Chi, Phi, etc.
Imo, nothing can be done to fix this deal. Our 1st needs to be removed and I don't see the benefit in giving up on Paajarvi yet either. I don't see anything Montreal could offer up that would interest me enough to give up an MPS + a lottery pick package.
Paajarvi + Khabby + a 3rd for Schneider? Seriously?
Maybe i need to spend some time out of this thread. Every proposal in here I see as screwing us badly.
Screwing us? If you could get Schneider for MPS, Khabby and a 3rd you do that everyday of the week.
I like Schneider, but not enough to give up the finally developed Oilers Shutdown defensemen. The Oilers aren't exactly flush with top-4 defensemen, losing one, like Smid, would be brutal.
It would be tough to turn down that deal because i feel like Schneider could very well turn into an elite goalie but i really REALLY don't want to involve Smid in that package.
I would go as far as to include him on the "core" or untreadeable list with the Big 3 and the 1st rounder. Not only is he turning into a top notch shut down defenseman but he loves it here and just has the feel of one of those "Bleed Oiler Blue" type of players that will be a big part of our team when it's contending for the big prize.
I might be in the minority but i don't think that it's imperative to get elite goaltending. Teams like Chicago, Detroit and Pittsburgh (MAF isn't elite) didn't need elite goaltending to win Cups and i would like to think that this team is being built in the Chicago and Pittsburgh mold with high end offensive players being the main core players so i think that when this team has the proper team in place to surround the Big 3, that it will only need good goaltending to be a SC contender.
I would do PRV + a 3rd for Schneider in a heartbeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer
Screwing us? If you could get Schneider for MPS, Khabby and a 3rd you do that everyday of the week.
Why would we pay starting goalie prices for a guy who hasn't proven he can be a starting goalie yet? How many backups have looked great under 20-30 games of work but couldn't hack it with 50-60 games? Is he that much of a better option over Harding(UFA) or Lindback? Vancouver needs Schneider for depth in net for the playoffs so he'd be an off season move. At that point why not wait the few weeks til July 1st and try an offersheet on him for 3.1M costing us only a 2nd?
I am not ready to give up on Paajarvi and the idea of trading him for a unproven solution in net to a division rival has a big red warning light going off in my head.
Schneider "Could" be elite one day. But he's still a backup goaltender right now. Behind a much better club. There is no guarantee that he will become a superstar behind our defense. Doobie would look that much better with a contending team in front of him too.
This isn't a team that should be developing multiple young goalies at the same time. Somebody has to have the experience to lean on.
I agree...I'm not ready to give up on MPS just yet either. He's still adapting to the North American style of the game. Look at the Sedins...they were 30-40-50 point players for the first 5 years of their careers and now look at them. I'm not saying MPS will be putting up points like they are in the future, but holy hell give him some time before he's a castoff. All the tools are there, he just needs more time to adapt...he's not even old enough to hit the clubs south of the border yet. A bit premature to give up on him and start throwing him into proposals, unless the return is something way too good to pass up on.
Paajarvi has problems putting up a single point these days, let alone 40-50pts over a whole season.
I think, at this point, if there is a MPS+2nd or 3rd round for Schneider, you take it and run because you can only "maximize" so much of his value before it's negative [Hemsky]
Schneider "Could" be elite one day. But he's still a backup goaltender right now. Behind a much better club. There is no guarantee that he will become a superstar behind our defense. Doobie would look that much better with a contending team in front of him too.
This isn't a team that should be developing multiple young goalies at the same time. Somebody has to have the experience to lean on.
I would disagree with that assessment but that where pro scouts come in to play. If you have reliable people in those positions they should be able to tell you exactly where Schneiders ceiling lies. Then it's up to the GM to do something about (God help us all in this case).
Paajarvi has problems putting up a single point these days, let alone 40-50pts over a whole season.
I think, at this point, if there is a MPS+2nd or 3rd round for Schneider, you take it and run because you can only "maximize" so much of his value before it's negative [Hemsky]
Im sorry, but you dont give up on mps yet..... 2nd year in the league, he is fast, good hands, will fill out, uses his size on rushes.. sure hes struggling this year but imo trading him can bite the oil in the ass. i dont know what it is but i can see a hossa type player there... maybe not in numbers but just the style/size, maybe he turns the corner maybe not, but id rather find out with him in the oilers system..
Hey everyone, as was mentioned on the TSN Media Day it looks as if Ryan Suter is not planning on re-signing with the Preds before the deadline.
What would you be willing to pay for someone like Suter in a trade? What if he were to hit FA, what kind of money would you throw at him?
I'd offer
Paajarvi
Gilbert/Whitney
2nd
for his rights if we felt we would be able to re sign him
I would throw 7.5 Mil + at him. I think a piece like Suter would help us tremendously, and if we add Murray through the draft we have the ability to transform from a mediocre D, to what would become an elite defense imo.
Paajarvi has problems putting up a single point these days, let alone 40-50pts over a whole season.
I think, at this point, if there is a MPS+2nd or 3rd round for Schneider, you take it and run because you can only "maximize" so much of his value before it's negative [Hemsky]
Are you suggesting Hemsky has negative value? I'll bet he could fetch more than Paajarvi could, Ales is still worth a mid-late 1st and a good prospect, and if he's traded I'll bet that's at least what he gets.
It amazes me what people think Schneider's value is. It amazes me even more what people around here are willing to give up for Schneider. Consider the real case of Halak as an example. At the time Halak was moved, he had proven much, much more than Schneider has at this point in time. Halak proved to be able to handle a starter's work load, and he proved to be a very good high pressure goaltender. Essentially, he proved that he was a capable, legitimate starting goalie.
St.Louis decided to give up a pretty good package for Halak, though not as outrageous as some of the proposed packages offered for Schneider (keeping in mind Schneider has proven less than Halak had).
Now, sharing the load and arguably outplaying the goaltender who the Blues payed a decent price for, is a goalie of only 26 years old who the Blues payed only just over league minimum for. Brian Elliot has since been named to the all-star game and is among the leagues best as far as stats go. Arguably he has outplayed Halak, who was highly touted and returned a steep price all things considered. The moral of the story is, you don't pay out of the nose for a goalie with "potential" when you can sign a goalie of the same ilk for nothing.
<-- Credit goes to The Nemesis.
