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So let's assume Crosby is done.

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01-27-2012, 01:58 PM
  #1
Passchendaele
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So let's assume Crosby is done.

As of today, pretend he announced his retirement from the game.

Is he elected to the HHOF?

If he makes it, does he end up being the member with the lowest number of seasons played?

Where does he rank all-time considering what he has done in his career?

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01-27-2012, 02:03 PM
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Reds4Life
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HHOF easily. I would put him into top120 for sure, arguably top100.

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01-27-2012, 02:06 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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1. Yes
2. In terms of NHL-era players? He might be. The lowest I can think of are goalies Charlie Gardiner and Bill Durnan and winger Gordie Drillon with 7 seasons each and I don't think you can call Crosby's few games this year a "season."
3. Hard to say, he's been in the conversation for best player in the world for a 5 year stretch.

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01-27-2012, 02:30 PM
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jepjepjoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
As of today, pretend he announced his retirement from the game.

Is he elected to the HHOF? Yes

If he makes it, does he end up being the member with the lowest number of seasons played? Don't know

Where does he rank all-time considering what he has done in his career? 90-110
....

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01-27-2012, 02:31 PM
  #5
cheswick
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Well the HHOF is clearly not based on skill cause they have women in it. If it was based on skill he's defineteyl one of the better skilled players to ever play the game. It has to then go to career acomplishments. Stanley cup. Olympic gold. One Hart. One Art Ross.

I'd say its a close call.

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01-27-2012, 02:39 PM
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Fred Taylor
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What Crosby has displayed since the lockout in terms of skills, and accomplishments, it would be a shame if he didn't make it in. I actually didn't think this was a debate, I was thinking more along the lines of where does he compare among the very best of all-time.

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01-27-2012, 02:52 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Well the HHOF is clearly not based on skill cause they have women in it. If it was based on skill he's defineteyl one of the better skilled players to ever play the game. It has to then go to career acomplishments. Stanley cup. Olympic gold. One Hart. One Art Ross.

I'd say its a close call.
The women in the HHOF have their own seperate category.

I honestly don't see why people have a problem with it - it's not like they are competing with men for spots in the HHOF.

Anyway, every player who ever led the NHL in points is in the HHOF except for one - Herb Cain who led it in the war depleted 1944. That was the only time Cain finished top 10 in points, though he does have some high goal finishes. Crosby has had a much better career than Cain.

He's also had a much better career than one-time Hart HHOFer Buddy O'Connor: http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...oconnbu01.html

I don't think it's any question Crosby makes the HHOF at some point.

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01-27-2012, 03:10 PM
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Ya, I think he would be hHOF worthy. Normally, players have to grind out a long career before you would seriously consider them, but Crosby has already accomplished everything in his brief career.

He is arguably the best player since Lemieux, definitely since Jagr. How could you not vote for him?

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01-27-2012, 03:11 PM
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cheswick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
The women in the HHOF have their own seperate category.

I honestly don't see why people have a problem with it - it's not like they are competing with men for spots in the HHOF.

Anyway, every player who ever led the NHL in points is in the HHOF except for one - Herb Cain who led it in the war depleted 1944. That was the only time Cain finished top 10 in points, though he does have some high goal finishes. Crosby has had a much better career than Cain.

He's also had a much better career than one-time Hart HHOFer Buddy O'Connor: http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...oconnbu01.html

I don't think it's any question Crosby makes the HHOF at some point.
I was attempting a joke with the womens thing.

Anyway I don't really like when people use comparisons to say a player should go into the hall. Player X scored 400 goals and is in so player Y should be in too cause he scored more goals.

They let too many players in for my liking.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 01-30-2012 at 08:50 PM. Reason: garbage
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01-27-2012, 03:39 PM
  #10
McGuillicuddy
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Another scenario:

Crosby comes back and remains healthy, but is never the player he was before the concussion(s?). Say he puts in 8-10 years of solid but unspectacular play maxing out at the 70-85 point level. No more scoring titles, no more leading the Pens to a cup (which isn't to say he may not win another with Malkin as the scoring leader). Does he still get in or do the extra years of "only" above average play hurt his chances?

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01-27-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PearJuice View Post
Ya, I think he would be hHOF worthy. Normally, players have to grind out a long career before you would seriously consider them, but Crosby has already accomplished everything in his brief career.

He is arguably the best player since Lemieux, definitely since Jagr. How could you not vote for him?
I agree with this.

Regarding the previous post, if Crosby comes back and performs at average level, I think it should add. But I think people would tend to associate him more and more with his "average play". Perhaps a bit like when Gretzky gets questioned because he looked a bit weak - especially defensively - during his last years. Or when a guy like Fetisov gets associated with his NHL career rather than his prime.

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01-27-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Well the HHOF is clearly not based on skill cause they have women in it. If it was based on skill he's defineteyl one of the better skilled players to ever play the game. It has to then go to career acomplishments. Stanley cup. Olympic gold. One Hart. One Art Ross.

I'd say its a close call.
Worst argument ever.

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01-27-2012, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plusandminus View Post
I agree with this.

Regarding the previous post, if Crosby comes back and performs at average level, I think it should add. But I think people would tend to associate him more and more with his "average play". Perhaps a bit like when Gretzky gets questioned because he looked a bit weak - especially defensively - during his last years. Or when a guy like Fetisov gets associated with his NHL career rather than his prime.
Chelios syndrome. When a guy plays a long time past this peak, people tend to forget exactly how dominant he was at one time.

On the subject of Crosby, I'd have a hard time keeping him out. He's not a stone cold lock like Ovechkin in my eyes, but the Cup and playoff success on top of the mystique would be more than enough to put him over the top with voters.

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01-27-2012, 04:28 PM
  #14
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuillicuddy View Post
Another scenario:

Crosby comes back and remains healthy, but is never the player he was before the concussion(s?). Say he puts in 8-10 years of solid but unspectacular play maxing out at the 70-85 point level. No more scoring titles, no more leading the Pens to a cup (which isn't to say he may not win another with Malkin as the scoring leader). Does he still get in or do the extra years of "only" above average play hurt his chances?
If this happens, and it's not entirely unlikely, I think Crosby joins Lindros in the category of "people over age 10 at the time of his injury will understand his induction".

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01-27-2012, 04:41 PM
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Big Phil
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Worst argument ever.
I had to laugh when he wrote it though. Is there anyone on HFboards that doesn't roll their eyes that Angela James got in before Mark Howe? Anyway, they have their own wing much like in Baseball there is a section to "women in baseball" which includes mostly women owners who inherited a team after their husbands passed away. Oh................and the "lovable" Marge Schott. But it would be the worst argument if they WERE competing against NHLers.

Back to the point, Crosby should be in the HHOF. The only thing here and it has often been discussed is that if Lindros retired in 1999 or 2000, he may have had a better chance to be inducted than now since he hung around way too long and was irrelevant in the NHL, not to mention a 5 goal season his final year. People might have given Lindros the "what if" advantage rather than actually see him flounder like he did. So we knowone thing that has worked AGAINST him

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01-27-2012, 05:30 PM
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McGuillicuddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Back to the point, Crosby should be in the HHOF. The only thing here and it has often been discussed is that if Lindros retired in 1999 or 2000, he may have had a better chance to be inducted than now since he hung around way too long and was irrelevant in the NHL, not to mention a 5 goal season his final year. People might have given Lindros the "what if" advantage rather than actually see him flounder like he did. So we knowone thing that has worked AGAINST him
Exactly what I was trying to get at with my post above. Bit of a shame that perservering through extra years of play works against a player.

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01-27-2012, 05:38 PM
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Ishdul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I had to laugh when he wrote it though. Is there anyone on HFboards that doesn't roll their eyes that Angela James got in before Mark Howe? Anyway, they have their own wing much like in Baseball there is a section to "women in baseball" which includes mostly women owners who inherited a team after their husbands passed away. Oh................and the "lovable" Marge Schott. But it would be the worst argument if they WERE competing against NHLers.
Women should obviously be judged on different criteria than men for this kind of thing. You have to compare the relative position of men's ice hockey and women's ice hockey and then do comparisons against their peers for it to make any sense. If women's ice hockey had the same status as men's ice hockey (in terms of registered players, gate revenue, TV ratings, etc.) then there would/should be equal consideration of women's candidates to men's candidates. I hope no one has a problem with, say, how female tennis players are judged against male tennis players even though a top tier woman would get smashed by any semi-professional male there. James/Granato arguably belong as builders of the sport, anyways.

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01-27-2012, 06:21 PM
  #18
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Let's keep this to the topic at hand, por favor.

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01-27-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
As of today, pretend he announced his retirement from the game.

Is he elected to the HHOF?

If he makes it, does he end up being the member with the lowest number of seasons played?

Where does he rank all-time considering what he has done in his career?
Don't really care what the incompetent boobs at the HOF say, Crosby is a top 80 player of all time. He has accomplished more than many HOFers in his brief career and will likely be a top 20 player of all time if he can recover and play a full career.


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01-27-2012, 08:03 PM
  #20
VanIslander
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Underwhelming career accomplishments if that's all he ever gets. 50 years from now people won't understand the hype.

217 NHL goals.
367 NHL assists.

1st team all-star once (2007).
2nd team all-star once (2010).

One year of individual awards (2007 getting the Hart and Art Ross).

One Olympic gold medal (2010) - tied for 7th in the tourney scoring, but scored the final goal.

He would be remembered as a great young talent, among the best of his generation, whose career was cut short of what could have been truly all-time great.

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01-27-2012, 10:13 PM
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Fringe HHOF entrant. Career numbers too small.

He does have 4 major individual NHL awards under his belt though, that is more than some others from the recent era who will get in after a few years' wait (eg. Forsberg).

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01-27-2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Fringe HHOF entrant. Career numbers too small.

He does have 4 major individual NHL awards under his belt though, that is more than some others from the recent era who will get in after a few years' wait (eg. Forsberg).
With all due respect - who gives a *****? If Crosby played 12 more seasons and put up 60 points each year, he is suddenly a HOFer? 12 mediocre seasons added to his current resume makes the difference because that gives him 1,300 career points? BS.

That kind of thinking is why the HOF is so tainted.

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01-27-2012, 10:27 PM
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With all due respect - who gives a *****?
The HOF does, for one.

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01-27-2012, 10:40 PM
  #24
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The HOF does, for one.
That is why the group of 17 'old boys' who vote has no credibility whatsoever. Why do you think they conceal their votes?

Dick Duff? Bernie Federko? Clark Gillies?

Keep drinking their kool-aid. You just acknowledged that 12 mediocre seasons is HOF-worthy. pathetic

Even when all the dumb guys are in agreement, they are still dumb.

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01-28-2012, 04:19 AM
  #25
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Crosby has nothing more to prove, he's done everything, won everything, and is the defining player of a very important era. He at least played enough hockey to prove what Sidney Crosby was/is. We got enough of a sample size already, he had the kind of prime that would get him in easily if you filled out his resume with 10 mediocre 70 point seasons. What's the point of compiling numbers like that?

Lindros needs to get in too. Guys like him are the ones worth remembering.

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