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So let's assume Crosby is done.

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01-30-2012, 04:57 AM
  #76
AmerigoCorleone
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Originally Posted by Warriorscode View Post
Thats about 3 seasons in games played. So Crosby would be 24 25 26 in those years if not for the concussion. No way does Crosby's pace falter especially since he was entering his prime.
Forsberg missed a lot of games because of injury too.

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01-30-2012, 05:13 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Warriorscode View Post
Crosby scored 120 points to Forsbergs 106. 14 points is a lot. But I know what your saying. But Crosby also took home the Lester B. Pearson award. Forsberg never won that.
2003 was a much lower scoring season than 2007, forsberg was a two way player in his hart season, crosby wasnt.

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01-30-2012, 05:33 AM
  #78
AmerigoCorleone
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Originally Posted by Warriorscode View Post
I know but what do you not get about this
-Crosby has more major individual awards
-Crosby has more 100 point seasons
-Crosby has a higher career high in points in the regular season and playoffs.
-Crosby has more NHL records
The problem is you're not looking at things in they're context.

Forsberg was winning awards from 1994 to 2006. He stayed relevant to his teams (NHL and national) even through injuries.

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01-30-2012, 05:44 AM
  #79
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If i had anything to say, a player who been considered the best (or one of 2/3 best) players in the league for 4 straight seasons is a hall of famer, regardless of career numbers or throphy case.

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01-30-2012, 11:24 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by AmerigoCorleone View Post
Any coach in this league would take a 95 points in 82 game season from their best player over a 66 points in 41 game season.
depends of who would take the icetime of the 66 points guy in 41 games.

You only need a 60 points a season kind of forward...

The 66 points in 41 games guy should have got you a playoff spot, and you want the 66 points in 41 in the playoff. Obviously if he do not play in the playoff you take the 95 points guy but this is trivial.

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01-30-2012, 11:49 AM
  #81
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the question isn't whether or not Sid would go in the HoF should his career be over now, it is whether the waiting period would be waived or not. If he is done, he waits, if he isn't done & comes back & performs at the level pre-concussion, they waive the mandatory waiting period.

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01-30-2012, 09:23 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
the question isn't whether or not Sid would go in the HoF should his career be over now, it is whether the waiting period would be waived or not. If he is done, he waits, if he isn't done & comes back & performs at the level pre-concussion, they waive the mandatory waiting period.
they won't be waiving the period anymore. Not to mention that Crosby has never been good enough to even consider something so ridiculous.

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01-30-2012, 10:11 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by AmerigoCorleone View Post
If he had 6 100+ point seasons and 2 more 90+ point seasons that would impress me and with his awards would definitely get him in for me. The problem is he only has 4 100+ point seasons. That's why for me he needs 3-4 more 90+ point seasons to deserve the Hall of Fame.
Crosby has 4 of the 24 in total 100 point seasons in the last 6 years of the NHL.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

Since he has been in the league and up until last year with the time he missed he is 3rd in raw points and 1st in PPG never mind his trophy case.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

I'm beginning to think that you aren't really interested in this thread other than trolling.

If you are serious give us a ballpark number of how many guys are in your Hall please.

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01-30-2012, 10:37 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
they won't be waiving the period anymore. Not to mention that Crosby has never been good enough to even consider something so ridiculous.
really, generational talent, best player since Lemieux. Comes back & performs at pre-concussion levels which means running away with scoring titles & Hart Trophies over a decade or more? Probably winning a few more Cups as well. That doesn't merit waiving the waiting period? Wow...even all that aside, the fact that right now, people doubt he would be inducted into the HoF while scrubs like Cicarrelli & Neely currently reside there is laughable...

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01-30-2012, 10:52 PM
  #85
AmerigoCorleone
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Crosby has 4 of the 24 in total 100 point seasons in the last 6 years of the NHL.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

Since he has been in the league and up until last year with the time he missed he is 3rd in raw points and 1st in PPG never mind his trophy case.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

I'm beginning to think that you aren't really interested in this thread other than trolling.

If you are serious give us a ballpark number of how many guys are in your Hall please.
I'm just saying he needs a couple more great seasons to deserve the Hall of Fame.

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01-31-2012, 07:45 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmerigoCorleone View Post
If he had 6 100+ point seasons and 2 more 90+ point seasons that would impress me and with his awards would definitely get him in for me. The problem is he only has 4 100+ point seasons. That's why for me he needs 3-4 more 90+ point seasons to deserve the Hall of Fame.

ONLY has 4 100 point seasons? Do you realize how phenomenal a feat that is? Everybody that has done that is in the hall, or is a lock (Selanne). And most of them did it during much higher scoring eras. It would be ridiculous to keep out such a consistently dominant player.

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01-31-2012, 09:04 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
ONLY has 4 100 point seasons? Do you realize how phenomenal a feat that is? Everybody that has done that is in the hall, or is a lock (Selanne). And most of them did it during much higher scoring eras. It would be ridiculous to keep out such a consistently dominant player.
It's not just about how many 100+ seasons you have. It's about how many seasons you played great and contributed to your team.

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01-31-2012, 09:20 AM
  #88
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100-point seasons since 1998

Iginla 0
Datsyuk 0
St. Louis 1
Alfredsson 1
D. Sedin 1
H. Sedin 1
Malkin 2
Thornton 3

Jagr 4
Ovechkin 4
Crosby 4

If this is the standard, then Crosby is as much a stone-cold lock as anyone in the past decade and a half.

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01-31-2012, 09:38 AM
  #89
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I wouldn't have an issue with Sid getting in the Hall early if his career is done.

That said, I would find it a little hard to swallow if this did happen and Lindros was still not in.
Obviously Lindros doesn't have the Cup or the Gold or the "Golden goal" but Eric was the more dominant player.

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01-31-2012, 09:39 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by AmerigoCorleone View Post
It's not just about how many 100+ seasons you have. It's about how many seasons you played great and contributed to your team.
And he has more elite seasons than a lot of HOFers, and won more for this teams, too. He's already done his part and proven his greatness. There's not really any need to do or prove or anything else, though hopefully he can get healthy and do it anyway.

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01-31-2012, 09:47 AM
  #91
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Player Seasons GP Points Scoring peak 100 points 50 goals Hart Smythe Ross Selke Postseason All-Star Cup
Daniel Alfredsson 16 1102 1061 103 1 0 0 0 0 0 0/1 0
Sidney Crosby 7 420 584 120 4 1 1 0 1 0 1/1 1
Pavel Datsyuk 10 711 704 97 0 0 0 0 0 3 0/1 2
Patrik Elias 16 1008 862 96 0 0 0 000 1/0 2
Dany Heatley 10 718 723 105 2 2 0 0 0 0 1/1 0
Marian Hossa 14 946 880 100 1 0 0 0 0 0 0/1 1
Jarome Iginla 15 1156 1045 98 0 2 0 0 1 0 3/1 0
Ilya Kovalchuk 10 745 742 98 0 2 0 0 0 0 0/1 0
Jaromir Jagr 18 1313 1633 149 5 3 1 0 5 0 7/1 2
Evgeni Malkin 6 394 476 113 2 0 0 1 1 0 2/0 1
Alexander Ovechkin 7 522 653 112 4 4 2 0 1 0 5/2 0
Daniel Sedin 11 835 702 104 1 0 0 0 1 0 1/1 0
Henrik Sedin 11 859 718 112 1 0 1 0 1 0 2/0 0
Teemu Selanne 19 1396 1385 132 4 3 0 0 0 0 2/2 1
Martin St. Louis 13 897 821 102 1 0 1 0 1 0 1/3 1
Joe Thornton 14 1042 1039 125 3 0 1 0 1 0 1/2 0


Unless they stop inducting 2-3 forwards per year, I can't see Crosby being snubbed.


Last edited by tarheelhockey: 01-31-2012 at 10:00 AM.
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01-31-2012, 09:54 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
really, generational talent, best player since Lemieux.
Lidstrom, Hasek, Jagr etc. might dispute that.

All of them are much more accomplished than Crosby.

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Comes back & performs at pre-concussion levels which means running away with scoring titles & Hart Trophies over a decade or more?
He most likely won't come back at pre-concussion levels and even if he did.. he wasn't "running away" with anything even before his injuries.

And before the famous half season gets brought up: Ovechkin also had a half season at an even greater pace and wasn't able to keep it up for the whole season.

In 7 seasons thus far Crosby has one Art Ross that he won by 6 points, and one Hart trophy.

Quote:
Probably winning a few more Cups as well. That doesn't merit waiving the waiting period? Wow...even all that aside, the fact that right now, people doubt he would be inducted into the HoF while scrubs like Cicarrelli & Neely currently reside there is laughable...
While Crosby is certainly a better player at his best than either of Cicarelli or Neely.. you calling them scrubs is insulting.

As the best player in the league, and the face of the league for the last several years, I am sure Crosby will get in to the Hall eventually, though.

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01-31-2012, 10:27 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Lidstrom, Hasek, Jagr etc. might dispute that.

All of them are much more accomplished than Crosby.
Prolly best to leave goalies out of it but yeah, Lidstrom and Jagr for sure and if Sid is done after only 420 games, then Lindros and Forsberg shouldn't be excluded from the conversation either.

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01-31-2012, 11:28 AM
  #94
AmerigoCorleone
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Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
And he has more elite seasons than a lot of HOFers, and won more for this teams, too. He's already done his part and proven his greatness. There's not really any need to do or prove or anything else, though hopefully he can get healthy and do it anyway.
I place a greater value on longevity than peak. If he can have at least 3 more 90+ point seasons then he definitely deserves the Hall of Fame in my eyes.

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02-01-2012, 01:43 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by AmerigoCorleone View Post
I place a greater value on longevity than peak. If he can have at least 3 more 90+ point seasons then he definitely deserves the Hall of Fame in my eyes.
The Hall Of Arbitrary Statistical Cutoffs.

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02-01-2012, 12:41 PM
  #96
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Lidstrom, Hasek, Jagr etc. might dispute that.
All of them are much more accomplished than Crosby..
All of them have played longer which means they are more accomplished. That's not where I was going.

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
He most likely won't come back at pre-concussion levels and even if he did.. he wasn't "running away" with anything even before his injuries..
Yeah, he was. He was having a Lemieux-dominant season before he went down....and as far as coming back at pre-concussion levels (or pre-neck injury level whichever you prefer), no one knows. That's why I put qualifiers in my statement.

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
And before the famous half season gets brought up: Ovechkin also had a half season at an even greater pace and wasn't able to keep it up for the whole season..
Are we seriously debating Crosby vs Ovechkin at this point? Sid has demonstrated excellence over long stretches throughout his career. It's pretty safe to assume he would keep it up over an entire season if healthy....

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
In 7 seasons thus far Crosby has one Art Ross that he won by 6 points, and one Hart trophy..
And a Stanley Cup, Gold Medal, Gold Medal winning goal, Lester Pearson Award & 2 Messier Awards & I haven't even gone into his junior stuff...

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
While Crosby is certainly a better player at his best than either of Cicarelli or Neely.. you calling them scrubs is insulting..
What's insulting is that they are in the Hall. They were scrubs when you compare them to their peers already residing. Nor should they be there, but that is a different discussion.

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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
As the best player in the league, and the face of the league for the last several years, I am sure Crosby will get in to the Hall eventually, though.
Finally agree....

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02-01-2012, 02:25 PM
  #97
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by AmerigoCorleone View Post
I place a greater value on longevity than peak. If he can have at least 3 more 90+ point seasons then he definitely deserves the Hall of Fame in my eyes.
Meaning you think he should have a total of 7 seasons of 90+ points.

Please rationalize what you see below.





Active leaders in 90+ point seasons

Jaromir Jagr 10

------AmerigoCorleone's HOF cutoff line ------

Teemu Selanne 6

Alexander Ovechkin 5

Sidney Crosby 4
Martin St. Louis 4
Joe Thornton 4

Jarome Iginla 3

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02-01-2012, 08:39 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post

And a Stanley Cup, Gold Medal, Gold Medal winning goal, Lester Pearson Award & 2 Messier Awards & I haven't even gone into his junior stuff...
Funny, last I checked, Lindros has a Gold Medal, a Hart and a Lester Pearson as well.
Was even more dominating on the ice than Crosby and for longer.
And I haven't even gone into his junior stuff...

Look, lets just hope he makes it back so we don't have to engage in the fanboi crap.
This is not Gretzky we're talking about here, who was already a lock for the Hall after 5 years.

If his career is indeed over, there is an argument for him to be in the Hall but it's definitely not a lock.
Just like there is an argument for Lindros to be there.

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02-01-2012, 08:47 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Ovechkin and Crosby have both stamped their tickets in my book.


Players with more first-team selections at Left Wing than Ovechkin:

-Bobby Hull
-Ted Lindsay


Players with more Pearson/Lindsay awards than Ovechkin:

-Wayne Gretzky
If I'm not mistaken, Lemieux won 4 so it's not only Gretzky and Jagr and Lafleur each won 3 except Lafleur and Jagr were more dominant for longer than Ovechkin.

Ovechkin seems destined to go towards the path of consistent 60-70 Pts seasons from now on.

Not a sure shot Hall of Fame player right now.

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02-01-2012, 08:52 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
100-point seasons since 1998

Iginla 0
Datsyuk 0
St. Louis 1
Alfredsson 1
D. Sedin 1
H. Sedin 1
Malkin 2
Thornton 3

Jagr 4
Ovechkin 4
Crosby 4

If this is the standard, then Crosby is as much a stone-cold lock as anyone in the past decade and a half.
you definitely missed some (Forsberg, Naslund, Hossa, more, i think), but ya, whatever, Crosby should easily bloody well make it.

Looks like he doesn't have a concussion, anyways.

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