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Old
10-21-2004, 02:56 AM
  #76
Minos
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
purqois pas? la Columbie Britanique est la plus diverse province au Canada, je trouve ici exectement un peu de partout.
Province wide, maybe - but have you ever been to Toronto? It's so diverse that I sometimes forget what country I'm in! (and I like that!).

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10-21-2004, 07:21 AM
  #77
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Don Cherry is the most patriotic Canadian in the history of Canada.

And the most popular Canadian with the majority of people in this country.

While most loud mouth left wing bleeding hearts continue to try to divide or destroy this country,Cherry is the white knight to save this country.

Cherry is a HERO to most of Canadians.
That is an undenible fact.

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10-21-2004, 07:47 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Fan
Don Cherry is the most patriotic Canadian in the history of Canada.

And the most popular Canadian with the majority of people in this country.

While most loud mouth left wing bleeding hearts continue to try to divide or destroy this country,Cherry is the white knight to save this country.

Cherry is a HERO to most of Canadians.
That is an undenible fact.
:lol

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10-21-2004, 08:15 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan
Don Cherry is the most patriotic Canadian in the history of Canada.

And the most popular Canadian with the majority of people in this country.

While most loud mouth left wing bleeding hearts continue to try to divide or destroy this country,Cherry is the white knight to save this country.

Cherry is a HERO to most of Canadians.
That is an undenible fact.
Hasn't Don Cherry done more to divide our country than anyone else? He routinely insults 6 million or so French Canadians and millions of other (sensible) English speaking Canadians. He's a jackass and a biggot, if those are the qualities of a hero in your mind then that's your business, but those aren't beliefs shared by most Canadians.

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10-21-2004, 08:26 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minos
Hasn't Don Cherry done more to divide our country than anyone else? He routinely insults 6 million or so French Canadians and millions of other (sensible) English speaking Canadians. He's a jackass and a biggot, if those are the qualities of a hero in your mind then that's your business, but those aren't beliefs shared by most Canadians.
Oh, come on, Minos, it was obviously sarcasm. Nobody could actually be so _______ (fill in the blank).

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10-21-2004, 09:24 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill
Oh, come on, Minos, it was obviously sarcasm. Nobody could actually be so _______ (fill in the blank).
I don't know Bill, read his posts, and try and remember his last incarnation. What's the old saying about patriotism being the last bastion of cowards ? I think xenophobia's the last bastion of the simple minded. If you can categorize and put everyone in a slot, you don't have to be open minded and admit that there's a big world out there with perspectives you haven't considered. You find a lot of leaders like this, because they're never uncertain. I don't really have a whole lot of dislike for Cherry. My Dad calls francophones "Joes", Italians "Eye Ties" [he used to use Dago], Polack,Hunky, among many others. I don't like it, he doesn't get away with it around me or my kids, but he's a product of his generation. The fact is he was brought up with these people and feels no animosity towards them, they probably called him a Mick. If he met Brisebois, he'd tell me that my Hebe friend was a nice guy, in fact he could swear at him in Yiddish. I sort of think Cherry is a bit like that.
Who knows ? My real problem is that the guy can spout off his drivel unchallenged.

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10-21-2004, 09:50 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by mcphee
I don't know Bill, read his posts, and try and remember his last incarnation. What's the old saying about patriotism being the last bastion of cowards ? I think xenophobia's the last bastion of the simple minded. If you can categorize and put everyone in a slot, you don't have to be open minded and admit that there's a big world out there with perspectives you haven't considered. You find a lot of leaders like this, because they're never uncertain. I don't really have a whole lot of dislike for Cherry. My Dad calls francophones "Joes", Italians "Eye Ties" [he used to use Dago], Polack,Hunky, among many others. I don't like it, he doesn't get away with it around me or my kids, but he's a product of his generation. The fact is he was brought up with these people and feels no animosity towards them, they probably called him a Mick. If he met Brisebois, he'd tell me that my Hebe friend was a nice guy, in fact he could swear at him in Yiddish. I sort of think Cherry is a bit like that.
Who knows ? My real problem is that the guy can spout off his drivel unchallenged.
You think so? Maybe you're right, or maybe I was the one being sourcastic, you decide

BTW, where did your father pick up "Joe" to describe francophones ? I'm (kinda) curious about where that comes from. Joe as in ...... ?

Maybe Fan can drop in again and tell us what he really meant.

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Old
10-21-2004, 10:05 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill
You think so? Maybe you're right, or maybe I was the one being sourcastic, you decide

BTW, where did your father pick up "Joe" to describe francophones ? I'm (kinda) curious about where that comes from. Joe as in ...... ?

Maybe Fan can drop in again and tell us what he really meant.
I guess it refers to Joseph supposedly a middle name of every young french Canadian male. What makes me laugh is that to not be offensive, he'd use o'jay, the pig latin version. I've sort of come to accept going with the way someone treats people rather than the way they talk. Bill, out of curiosity, what's your 1st language ? I've seen you post in French and you seem equally comfortable in both. None of my business, actually, I'm just envious because I struggle in French.

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10-21-2004, 10:09 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill
Oh, come on, Minos, it was obviously sarcasm. Nobody could actually be so _______ (fill in the blank).
For his sake I hope he was being sarcastic, but saddly I know too many people who think this way to let comments like that slide.

Don Cherry knows alot about hockey, when he stays on topic he can be a good comentator, but when he ventures into political or social issues he is not qualified to make public statements. He doesn't know what he is taking about, but unfortunately because of his popularity, his ignorant views hold some weight among his fans.

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10-21-2004, 10:34 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by mcphee
I guess it refers to Joseph supposedly a middle name of every young french Canadian male. What makes me laugh is that to not be offensive, he'd use o'jay, the pig latin version. I've sort of come to accept going with the way someone treats people rather than the way they talk. Bill, out of curiosity, what's your 1st language ? I've seen you post in French and you seem equally comfortable in both. None of my business, actually, I'm just envious because I struggle in French.
That's what I thought about Joseph. My parents actually had to convince our parish priest that my middle name would not be Joseph. So I figure "Joe" is pretty tame and I wouldn't even see it as derogatory.

My first language is French, but brought up in a neighbourhood where most of my little friends spoke english (only, of course). My father was perfectly bilingual and worked in enlish and was a staunch federalist, but would not tolerate us speaking english in the house. Anywhere else, with my friends, etc., it was ok, mais à la maison, on parle français ! So j'ai appris both langues in my youth, en même temps. So I guess that makes me a "french"-canadian, a term which, as you know, I abhor.

As for Cherry and the greatest canadians list, it seems to be, as some obscure writer once put it, "much ado about nothing". Funny thing about Cherry, though. In Québec, we certainly have our share of narrow-minded xenophobic commentators; difference is, of course, that they are not nominated as "great canadians".

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Old
10-21-2004, 10:35 AM
  #86
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The Greatest Canadian is the official title of the CBC opinion poll. Someone would have to re-define "greatness" in order for me to consider Don Cherry in the top 10 Canadian list. (The top 100 or top 1000, for that matter...) And I am not anti-Cherry, he's entitled to say what he wants.

But a great man? No. He's an opinionated, outspoken man, who is as ridiculously famous in Canada as Dion and Twain are internationally. Most popular Canadian (outside Quebec) is the category he belongs in.

Greatness, to me, implies impacting positively on a portion of the world's population. In that sense, I think of medicine, science, economics, etc. Neither Gretzky, Lemieux, Cherry or any other sports figure even belong there. Voting for sports figures is voting with your heart, not your head.

There are soooo many great Canadians to choose from, who succeeded on an international stage, and so many of them neglected for Don Cherry? That's insulting, but perhaps a sad commentary on society today. Overpaid sports figures are admired, while positive contributors to the human race are ignored.

Some great ones have been mentioned....a couple more of the top of my head:

Sanford Fleming?
Romeo D'Allaire?

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Old
10-21-2004, 11:38 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minos
Province wide, maybe - but have you ever been to Toronto? It's so diverse that I sometimes forget what country I'm in! (and I like that!).
You are probably right, I visited Toronto just once

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10-21-2004, 11:44 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
You are probably right, I visited Toronto just once
You're not missing much!

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Old
10-21-2004, 11:52 AM
  #89
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Well said Joe. A poll like this gets people talking and I guess that's a good thing and it drums up interest which has to be a good thing for a network. You can't compare Tommy Douglas to someone like Penfield or Banting. How do you compare the impact of a medical contribution to a political/social one ? Athletes and entertainers/artists contribute on different levels but compare them to each other.

Bill , glad to know that Joe [o'jay] isn't offensive. We've trimmed a lot of expressions from his vocabulary over the years. Funny thing is that he was brought up in more of a mixed bag neighbourhood and has always been more fluent in French than me.

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10-21-2004, 01:06 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by mcphee
Well said Joe. A poll like this gets people talking and I guess that's a good thing and it drums up interest which has to be a good thing for a network. You can't compare Tommy Douglas to someone like Penfield or Banting. How do you compare the impact of a medical contribution to a political/social one ? Athletes and entertainers/artists contribute on different levels but compare them to each other.
I agree. The best thing is that it does get people talking and thinking, in my opinion. I'm sure that it has also piqued the curiosity of several about the contributions of some of the citizens of this country (past and present) that affect us as a whole in the present era

It is interesting to see what everyone's perception of contribution and greatness really is. Is it recognition abroad? patriotism? nation building? mass appeal? military achievement? ideology? physical appearance? and so on. When I see Avril Lavigne, Celine Dion and Don Cherry listed, it reminds me on how much we have been influenced by American-style fame and cult of personality.

As far as the results. This is clearly a case of "Vox populi, Vox dei"....even if it ends up being Don Cherry

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10-21-2004, 05:34 PM
  #91
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Not want to go into all this myself also but Cherry in the top 10 just makes me more sure about my desire to get a Quebec nation more than anything else... (if that's possible)

How can you be proud of a red-neck who's talking crap about french people and europeans and... on the national TV... And this is no matters what he have done.

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Old
10-21-2004, 07:59 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Anksun
Not want to go into all this myself also but Cherry in the top 10 just makes me more sure about my desire to get a Quebec nation more than anything else... (if that's possible)

How can you be proud of a red-neck who's talking crap about french people and europeans and... on the national TV... And this is no matters what he have done.
knowing his mind about euro and quebecors ,and to know that a lot of canadians see him as a ten top famous would be enought to give the extras '' ethnic votes '' that were missing in the last referendum ...hi hi

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10-21-2004, 08:03 PM
  #93
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Neil young should have been in the top 10.

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10-21-2004, 09:17 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by mark0v
knowing his mind about euro and quebecors ,and to know that a lot of canadians see him as a ten top famous would be enought to give the extras '' ethnic votes '' that were missing in the last referendum ...hi hi
Don't forget the money as well.....money and the ethnic vote...i love the double standard

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10-21-2004, 10:00 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Joe Malone
Greatness, to me, implies impacting positively on a portion of the world's population. In that sense, I think of medicine, science, economics, etc. Neither Gretzky, Lemieux, Cherry or any other sports figure even belong there. Voting for sports figures is voting with your heart, not your head.
By that definition then I think either Tommy Douglas (his declaration of human rights pre-dated the UNs, he brought Health Care to Canada which became a model system for other Social Democracies) or Fredrick Banting (made diabetes a livable disease) can be considered as the 'Greatest' Canadian.

But I don't think that greatness is necessarily measured by impact. I think someone who embodies greatness is someone who's story can inspire anyone and who's impact could be less visible and on that level sports figures [i]can[/] be acceptable choices.

Mario for example is a reasonable choice because of all the obstacles he faced during his career. He was a french kid who barely spoke english and went to Pittsburgh, he dealt with the pressure of being "the next Gretzky", he fought through several injuries, he over came cancer and all the while was the best player of his era. What makes him great aren't his goal and assist totals, it's his character, his desire, his drive, his determination. It's difficult to measure what type of impact that he's had, but he's been an inspiration to millions of fans - who have used that inspiration to fight through difficult circumstances.

I think that Terry Fox is a solid choice, and looking at Mario I think he represents alot of the same characteristics.

The same can be said of Gretzky. Ignore his NHL production, and look at his life story. He's been in the spotlight since he was 10 or 11 years old and has dealt with a level of pressure from a young age that none of us could ever understand. There was ALOT invested in him and he managed to live up to people's expectations (and stayed humble in the process). When he was traded to LA, a small town kid from semi-rural Canada was charged with selling hockey to America - not only was his future at stake, but the future of hockey itself. And he didn't disappoint.

Banting has probably had the biggest impact, but did he represent greatness? To be honest, I don't know much about him other than the fact that he invented insulin. Was he a 'one trick pony' or was he repsonsible for a series of achievements that I'm not aware of?

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10-22-2004, 07:41 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Minos
...
The same can be said of Gretzky. Ignore his NHL production, and look at his life story. He's been in the spotlight since he was 10 or 11 years old and has dealt with a level of pressure from a young age that none of us could ever understand. There was ALOT invested in him and he managed to live up to people's expectations (and stayed humble in the process). When he was traded to LA, a small town kid from semi-rural Canada was charged with selling hockey to America - not only was his future at stake, but the future of hockey itself. And he didn't disappoint.
...
Same could be said for Céline Dion

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10-22-2004, 09:40 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill
Same could be said for Céline Dion
I'll admit my bias - I can't stand Celine Dion, but I as objectively as I can be I don't think its fair to say that she's faced the same level of pressure as Gretzky. She did have expectations placed on her at a young age, and she did live up to those expectations (and should be appreciated for that), so on that level they are similar.

I think the major difference is that if Celine failed, ultimately she only failed herself (and I guess her family who were depending on her). If Gretzky failed, he failed the future of the entire NHL and all of the industries and investments associated with it. It's not like Sony ever went to Celine and said "If your next album isn't a hit, we're doomed." Her record label (and industry on a whole) was never 100% dependent on anything she did personally. But essentially, that's what Gretzky was faced with. The NHL HAD to sell itself to America, and Gretzky was the best - maybe only - chance for them to do that. If he failed, the future of the league was in serious trouble.

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10-22-2004, 10:08 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Minos
By that definition then I think either Tommy Douglas (his declaration of human rights pre-dated the UNs, he brought Health Care to Canada which became a model system for other Social Democracies) or Fredrick Banting (made diabetes a livable disease) can be considered as the 'Greatest' Canadian.

But I don't think that greatness is necessarily measured by impact. I think someone who embodies greatness is someone who's story can inspire anyone and who's impact could be less visible and on that level sports figures [i]can[/] be acceptable choices.

Mario for example is a reasonable choice because of all the obstacles he faced during his career. He was a french kid who barely spoke english and went to Pittsburgh, he dealt with the pressure of being "the next Gretzky", he fought through several injuries, he over came cancer and all the while was the best player of his era. What makes him great aren't his goal and assist totals, it's his character, his desire, his drive, his determination. It's difficult to measure what type of impact that he's had, but he's been an inspiration to millions of fans - who have used that inspiration to fight through difficult circumstances.

I think that Terry Fox is a solid choice, and looking at Mario I think he represents alot of the same characteristics.

The same can be said of Gretzky. Ignore his NHL production, and look at his life story. He's been in the spotlight since he was 10 or 11 years old and has dealt with a level of pressure from a young age that none of us could ever understand. There was ALOT invested in him and he managed to live up to people's expectations (and stayed humble in the process). When he was traded to LA, a small town kid from semi-rural Canada was charged with selling hockey to America - not only was his future at stake, but the future of hockey itself. And he didn't disappoint.

Banting has probably had the biggest impact, but did he represent greatness? To be honest, I don't know much about him other than the fact that he invented insulin. Was he a 'one trick pony' or was he repsonsible for a series of achievements that I'm not aware of?
Superb post. You've swayed my opinion on sports figures in the top ten. I seem to recall a saying that one measure of greatness is "grace under pressure". Certainly Mario and Wayne qualify there.

Banting may have been a one trick pony, but his impact was phenomenal. In a sense, I guess Terry Fox's achievement was comparable.

I noticed you didn't make a case for Don Cherry.

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Old
10-22-2004, 12:29 PM
  #99
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I noticed you didn't make a case for Don Cherry.
He's a biggot. No matter what he's accomplished (and to be fair he deserves credit for some things) being a racists prevents anyone from being "great" IMO. For that reason alone he shouldn't be in the top 10 (or even the top 100).

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10-22-2004, 06:17 PM
  #100
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i read in an article in LA PRESSE that the question was more about '' who would be the perfect or the ideal canadian ''...

imagine if this clown win the pool ! what a shame for us ...

i also was thinking about Jean Drapeau today ; the guy was the montreal mayor for something like 30 years .He 's also the one who put the Canada on the map when he did the EXPO 67 . At that time , a lot of europeens were still convince that Canada was a wild contry with Natives peoples hunting the bears ... :lol

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