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Old
02-19-2012, 02:18 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not signing Wizniewski is the best move Gauthier has made. He has one of the worst contracts in the NHL...#4-5 d-man making 5.5 mil...and for SIX years!!!
Correction. Markov's contract is looking pretty awful right now.

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02-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #327
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Even last year before being traded to the Habs, Wisniewski had the worst +/- on the Islanders. His history shows a player who isn't a good defender, at best he's as good as the defense arounds him.

He's more physical than Kaberle. Beyond that both of them are mediocre at best in their own end without the puck.

Like I said, if given the choice between Wisniewski and Kaberle without looking at the contracts then yes, I'd take Wiz every time.
Gorges-Wisniewski could have made a decent pairing then, is what your saying.

Wisniewski was way better defensively than Kaberle, it's not even close. Wisniewski was playing 22-23 minutes a game on a team that finished 6th in the East, had the best PP in the second half of the season (since he was added to the roster) and came within inches of putting the Bruins to rest in the first round. Kaberle on the other hand plays 13-16 minutes per game on a team contending for last place in the East with the league's worst PP. Wisniewski was also a plus player in his time here.

His contract is horrible, but we have no idea what he was willing to accept in order to play here. Infact Gauthier doesn't even know because Gauthier never even made an offer. Pathetic.

For the extra mil on the cap, I take Wisniewski and the fact he'd vault our PP back into the Top 10 playing with Subban.

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02-19-2012, 03:03 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
He's got 21 points in 32 games. Top pairing D numbers there.
Kaberle had 47 points last year, I guess only #6 d-men produce like that.

Since his cup hangover ended he has been above that pace this year.

Started 27 GP 0-5-5

Since then

32 GP 2-18-20 playing 16:13 per game. That's better production that Wisniewski's 21 points playing 24:45 per game in 32 games.

Wisniewski is no more a top pair d-man than I'm an astronaut.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:05 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by prairie hab View Post
Correction. Markov's contract is looking pretty awful right now.
Unfortunately before July 1st we had no way of knowing he would have complications.

Carosby's contract is looking much worse but do you think Shero had a crystal ball knowing Crosby would have multiple concussions and now neck problems on top of that?

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02-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #330
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Gorges-Wisniewski could have made a decent pairing then, is what your saying.

Wisniewski was way better defensively than Kaberle, it's not even close. Wisniewski was playing 22-23 minutes a game on a team that finished 6th in the East, had the best PP in the second half of the season (since he was added to the roster) and came within inches of putting the Bruins to rest in the first round. Kaberle on the other hand plays 13-16 minutes per game on a team contending for last place in the East with the league's worst PP. Wisniewski was also a plus player in his time here.

His contract is horrible, but we have no idea what he was willing to accept in order to play here. Infact Gauthier doesn't even know because Gauthier never even made an offer. Pathetic.

For the extra mil on the cap, I take Wisniewski and the fact he'd vault our PP back into the Top 10 playing with Subban.
Not sure what planet you are on, but Wisniewski if anything is worse defensively than Kaberle. Last year he used to pass the puck through our own zone and make huge gaffes. He was brutal as a #1 with the Islanders and again this year with Columbus. At least last year with the habs he was getting favorable matchups against lesser competition.

-18 in 32 games NYI
-18 in 32 games this year CBJ.

I know +- is not the be all and end all but that projects to -64 over a full season.

Kaberle struggled early with weight issues but since Rutherford called him out, he's gotten in better shape and played much better. Unfortunately the haters will jump on the Staal play and project that to be a huge issue. Recently we have seen guys like Phaneuf and Chara look terrible in their own end, it happens to the best of them.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:15 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not sure what planet you are on, but Wisniewski if anything is worse defensively than Kaberle. Last year he used to pass the puck through our own zone and make huge gaffes. He was brutal as a #1 with the Islanders and again this year with Columbus. At least last year with the habs he was getting favorable matchups against lesser competition.

-18 in 32 games NYI
-18 in 32 games this year CBJ.

I know +- is not the be all and end all but that projects to -64 over a full season.

Kaberle struggled early with weight issues but since Rutherford called him out, he's gotten in better shape and played much better. Unfortunately the haters will jump on the Staal play and project that to be a huge issue. Recently we have seen guys like Phaneuf and Chara look terrible in their own end, it happens to the best of them.
What planet are you living on?

You think Kaberle doesn't get favourable matchups? Half the time he doesn't even play with a lead in the third period and you think he's better than Wisniewski?

FACTS are Wisniewski was a part of a playoff bound team, and was a huge part of it. He was our #3 defenseman behind Subban and Hamrlik. Kaberle can't even make our Top 5 and he's behind two guys who are playing their FIRST NHL SEASONS.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:19 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
What planet are you living on?

You think Kaberle doesn't get favourable matchups? Half the time he doesn't even play with a lead in the third period and you think he's better than Wisniewski?

FACTS are Wisniewski was a part of a playoff bound team, and was a huge part of it. He was our #3 defenseman behind Subban and Hamrlik. Kaberle can't even make our Top 5 and he's behind two guys who are playing their FIRST NHL SEASONS.
Last year he was #3 in ice time on a cup winning team.

I bet Kaberle's play improves once Campoli gets traded and he gets regular ice time...playing 7 d-men helps nobody as they can't get into the flow of the game.

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02-19-2012, 03:23 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Last year he was #3 in ice time on a cup winning team.

I bet Kaberle's play improves once Campoli gets traded and he gets regular ice time...playing 7 d-men helps nobody as they can't get into the flow of the game.
Agree to disagree but all things considered I hope you are right, because we need Kaberle to play like Kaberle used to play in Toronto. On most nights, offensively he has brought that.

He still isn't the right fit for the PP to play with Subban though. I don't think Markov is either, for that matter. Not without a fundamental shift in philosophy in how the PP is going to operate. PK should be aloud to rove in a similar fashion that Byfuglien does, this is the way he has ALWAYS played.

Markov-Kaberle will never work for obvious reasons.

I guess it'll end up being Markov-Subban and Kaberle-Diaz?

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02-19-2012, 03:47 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Agree to disagree but all things considered I hope you are right, because we need Kaberle to play like Kaberle used to play in Toronto. On most nights, offensively he has brought that.

He still isn't the right fit for the PP to play with Subban though. I don't think Markov is either, for that matter. Not without a fundamental shift in philosophy in how the PP is going to operate. PK should be aloud to rove in a similar fashion that Byfuglien does, this is the way he has ALWAYS played.

Markov-Kaberle will never work for obvious reasons.

I guess it'll end up being Markov-Subban and Kaberle-Diaz?
The PP will suck until they go back to having some kind of threat up front.

I don't see us having any sustained success until the have plays that don't originate from the point...somebody along the half boards challenging thebox...back door play with somebody on their off wing...allowing the backside d-man to jump in...basically any non "pass it to the point and bomb away" play.

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Old
02-19-2012, 03:54 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
What planet are you living on?

You think Kaberle doesn't get favourable matchups? Half the time he doesn't even play with a lead in the third period and you think he's better than Wisniewski?

FACTS are Wisniewski was a part of a playoff bound team, and was a huge part of it. He was our #3 defenseman behind Subban and Hamrlik. Kaberle can't even make our Top 5 and he's behind two guys who are playing their FIRST NHL SEASONS.

And along with Wiz, Hammer is gone too. I know Gorges' loss hurt, but having Hamrlik and a 1 year younger Gill was a difference, especially the former. Say what you want about Hammer but he does have a history of making the guy next to him look better.

Last year we also had coach more prone to protect leads and play conservatively (Kaberle didn't play very long at all under Martin), who further emphasized forwards willing to go back and help with the defense with less aggressive forecheck, who was very concerned between balancing scoring and defensive responsibility on every line. Our offense might have been ugly at times, but every line had a responsible two way role last year. Our 4th line C was also an above average grinder in Halpern who might have lost his legs as the season went on, but could play on the PK and was effective at his role, not to mention a bigger role for grinders like Pyatt, as well as a healthy Gionta who always is willing to fight for the puck.

There's a lot of reasons to miss the Wiz. His defense isn't really one of them.

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02-19-2012, 08:56 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
The difference between those guys and Markov in his prime is, Markov was handling the opposition's best, with young, good-but-not-great D partners, with less than superstar forwards. Karlsson and Pietrangelo play a lot of minutes, but they are sheltered minutes. Boyle plays tough minutes, but with Thornton and Marleau helping dominate possession.

Markov was a beast in all zones. His decision making was so quick, creative and safe at the same time. He was a master at keeping the puck inside the offensive blue line. His passes created all-star triggermen.

The problem is Markov is now 33 years old. It's different to come back from time missed in a player's twenties. At Markov's age, there are great players who decline while still healthy, let alone being pushed along by two major surgeries, one minor surgery, 171 games missed and counting since he turned 31.

I really hope we get to see Markov play 20 games this season. If he's anything close to what he used to be, I'll consider it a miracle.
If you are playing 25 minutes a night, you arent being sheltered. You also dont get to "shelter" players averaging 25 minutes a night on the road. Markov is or was a very good player however he would be in these guys category right now as i said earlier. You can say he is better than them fine but he is right in the second tier of defenseman behind the top guys along with the likes of Karlssons, Boyles, etc of the world.

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02-19-2012, 09:22 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
If you are playing 25 minutes a night, you arent being sheltered. You also dont get to "shelter" players averaging 25 minutes a night on the road. Markov is or was a very good player however he would be in these guys category right now as i said earlier. You can say he is better than them fine but he is right in the second tier of defenseman behind the top guys along with the likes of Karlssons, Boyles, etc of the world.
You are right that it's hard to dictate soft matchups on the road, with that kind of ice time. But a coach can still tilt the ice for his young players by determining their zone starts. Karlsson has the highest % of o vs d zone starts of any regular Sens dman. Pietrangelo's aren't quite as favourable, but you can see which 3 Blues dmen have been leaned on harder in their own zone, and he's not among them. Markov, in his last full season, was shouldering the load.

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Old
02-19-2012, 09:25 PM
  #338
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So any updates on Markov?

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02-19-2012, 09:25 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Gorges-Wisniewski could have made a decent pairing then, is what your saying.

Wisniewski was way better defensively than Kaberle, it's not even close. Wisniewski was playing 22-23 minutes a game on a team that finished 6th in the East, had the best PP in the second half of the season (since he was added to the roster) and came within inches of putting the Bruins to rest in the first round. Kaberle on the other hand plays 13-16 minutes per game on a team contending for last place in the East with the league's worst PP. Wisniewski was also a plus player in his time here.

His contract is horrible, but we have no idea what he was willing to accept in order to play here. Infact Gauthier doesn't even know because Gauthier never even made an offer. Pathetic.

For the extra mil on the cap, I take Wisniewski and the fact he'd vault our PP back into the Top 10 playing with Subban.
Wow...You know that...

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Old
02-19-2012, 10:24 PM
  #340
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The fact they are releasing video on him skating is a good sign. Also lol at the dude eating a poutine in the corner in the stands.

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02-19-2012, 11:40 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by speed11 View Post
i would of went with delusional...
Really? The guy sounds likes he's really in coming along according to all kinds of reports and the coach even says he's making big progress.

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Having to sit through a 30 second advertisement between clips is extremely annoying.
haha I was just thinking that. Nhl.com vids aren't really enticing because of all the ads.

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Still going pretty slow imo.
But it could be worse I guess..
you relaly think he was going as fast as he could?


Last edited by overlords: 02-19-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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Old
02-19-2012, 11:46 PM
  #342
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The fact they are releasing video on him skating is a good sign. Also lol at the dude eating a poutine in the corner in the stands.
What? He's training/rehabbing with Latendresse?

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Old
02-19-2012, 11:53 PM
  #343
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The fact they are releasing video on him skating is a good sign. Also lol at the dude eating a poutine in the corner in the stands.
Calculated PR move. Wouldn't read into it.

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Old
02-19-2012, 11:54 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Kaberle had 47 points last year, I guess only #6 d-men produce like that.

Since his cup hangover ended he has been above that pace this year.

Started 27 GP 0-5-5

Since then

32 GP 2-18-20 playing 16:13 per game. That's better production that Wisniewski's 21 points playing 24:45 per game in 32 games.

Wisniewski is no more a top pair d-man than I'm an astronaut.
Dude, I like Kaberle. Preaching to the WRONG guy here.

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Old
02-19-2012, 11:57 PM
  #345
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Calculated PR move. Wouldn't read into it.
At this point reminding people Markov exists is negative PR, especially if he's not back this season.

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Old
02-19-2012, 11:58 PM
  #346
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At this point reminding people Markov exists is negative PR, especially if he's not back this season.
This. If management wasn't very sure (although they have been in the past) of Markov's eventual return, they wouldn't bring him up at all.

Remember that the last time speculation was rampant that he'd be playing on the western swing, the team didn't say anything, it was the media that started the entire mess.

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02-20-2012, 01:37 PM
  #347
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Markov is travelling with the team on this road trip to Florida and Washington and will begin full practices with the team.

As per Canadiens website

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Old
02-20-2012, 01:38 PM
  #348
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Markov is travelling with the team on this road trip to Florida and Washington and will begin full practices with the team.

As per Canadiens website
HUGE NEWS! Mod should change the title

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Old
02-20-2012, 01:41 PM
  #349
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Hopefully it will be better than his last road trip where he dissapeared and went missing according to JM and PG

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Old
02-20-2012, 01:42 PM
  #350
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No hes going to **** up the tank! just kidding, hope they are 110% sure that he is ready because there is really no need for him to come back this season.

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