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All Trade Deadline Talk (February 27th, 3PM ET)

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:40 PM
  #301
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
No. Lots of players ahead of Purcell on that list that the Canucks wouldn't trade Schneider straight up for. PA Parenteau, for instance, who is 22nd in points scored. Or Fleischmann at 54th. I'm not sure Schneider gets traded at the deadline, but if he does, the return, I believe, would be a lot bigger you are saying. Again, Purcell is a very good player, but he does not have the potential to be a cornerstone player. Schneider does, and that is recognised around the league.

Funny thing about potential.

Stefan.

Daigle.

Brendl.

Svitov.

Potential has a funny way of working out sometimes.

Purcell has already shown he can be a top 6 forward who puts up around 50 points, and he has the potential to be BETTER, but if he doesnt become better, at least you know what youre getting.

Schneider has lived a very very sheltered life in Vancouver. Behind a perennial Vezina finalist, spot started for awhile, and even now still only a backup. A backup with great numbers no doubt, but theres a huge mental different to being the go to guy and the backup guy. Im by no means saying Schneider wont go to another team and be a top goalie in the league for the rest of his career, my point is, all he has proven thus far, is that he is a GREAT backup, on a great team.

Sorry but I wouldnt trade Purcell for that. Id much rather keep Purcell and sign Harding or Nabokov, or trade for a much cheaper option (cheaper according to HFboards at least)

I still maintain that Schneider will get much much less than Canucks fans think. IF Yzerman is interested in him, I would look at sending two of our 2nd round picks + a mid level prospect foward like a Richard Panik. Or Connolly plus one of the 2nds for him. Something along those lines. Or maybe they trade two of the 2nds for a 1st from someone and trade the 1st round pick for him.

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02-20-2012, 06:45 PM
  #302
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Whilst I was arguing against the fact that someone said that Purcell was not a top six player. What makes you so sure Schneider has more potential than Purcell? There is six months age between them and only one of them has established themselves properly in the league as of yet. Yes, Schneider will be incredible. But the way you word it makes it seem like Purcell has hit his peak where as Schneider can continue to grow exponentially better.

Wow, Purcell is on pace to break his points total from last season despite the fact he has 15 less PP points. Pretty impressive.
What I said is that Purcell is not consistently a top six player. At this point he has the potential to be part of the Lightning top six for years to come, but he hasn't shown that he really wants it. And until he can give a season where he is willing to bust his ass game in game out, I'm not going to change my mind.

You said consistency doesn't matter, points are what matter. I disagree. Until he started showing some consistency, his point totals were not good, he was not playing well defensively and he was a perimeter player who spent a fair amount of time in his coach's doghouse.

I would just as soon keep him and I've said so in this thread. But I'm seeing a whole lot of overrating of Teddy and a whole lot of underrating of Schneider here. From what I've seen of Schneider, and that's almost every game he's played this season, he's the real deal.

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02-20-2012, 06:47 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by newham89 View Post
Whilst I was arguing against the fact that someone said that Purcell was not a top six player. What makes you so sure Schneider has more potential than Purcell? There is six months age between them and only one of them has established themselves properly in the league as of yet. Yes, Schneider will be incredible. But the way you word it makes it seem like Purcell has hit his peak where as Schneider can continue to grow exponentially better.

Wow, Purcell is on pace to break his points total from last season despite the fact he has 15 less PP points. Pretty impressive.
Nice use of hyperbole. I think Purcell will undoubtedly improve, but he will probably not have the same value or impact down the road as Schneider. Goalies take longer to develop than forwards, and Schneider has been developed properly. Sure it's a gamble, but he has the potential to be a franchise goalie, and that isn't pie in the sky thinking, nor is it just the opinion of Vancouver fans. Purcell has the potential to be a very, very good top 6 player, is aleady pretty darn good, and he will get better than he currently is. But I don't see him being recognised as having the potential to be in that superstar echelon. A trade involving Schneider and Purcell is a trade based on current needs but even more on potential. That is why I would suggest Purcell would have to be added to in a Schneider trade. But who knows? I am, tragically, neither Yzerman, nor, (slightly less tragically) Gillis.

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02-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
What I said is that Purcell is not consistently a top six player. At this point he has the potential to be part of the Lightning top six for years to come, but he hasn't shown that he really wants it. And until he can give a season where he is willing to bust his ass game in game out, I'm not going to change my mind.

You said consistency doesn't matter, points are what matter. I disagree. Until he started showing some consistency, his point totals were not good, he was not playing well defensively and he was a perimeter player who spent a fair amount of time in his coach's doghouse.

I would just as soon keep him and I've said so in this thread. But I'm seeing a whole lot of overrating of Teddy and a whole lot of underrating of Schneider here. From what I've seen of Schneider, and that's almost every game he's played this season, he's the real deal.
This is what I'm saying. If we're talking ceiling potential, I don't think there's anyone in hockey who would argue that Schneider doesn't have all-world ceiling. Far more so than Purcell. Will he reach it? Not sure, but he has it, and his career thus far suggests he is on the righ track. And it isn't just that he is geting sheltered minutes. He has played against some pretty great teams this year, most often on the road, and his actual in-game performance has been incredible. The Canucks aren't the most structured defensive team, and give up a lot of chances in order to work the transition game. They depend on rock solid goaltending, and when they don't get it they lose, sometimes badly. Schneider has been absolutely rock solid this year, against top quality opponents.

Anyways, I guess I'm done here. Was just trying to gauge a value from fans, not that our opinions matter all that much at the end of the day. I'd like Purcell, but certainly haven't changed my own mind that it would take more than just Purcell to get Schneider.

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02-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #305
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Reading Michael Stuarts Tampa Bay Blog, he posted an interesting trade that I was curious to see what my fellow HF Board brethren thought of it.



Malone
2012/2013 2nd round pick (conditional )




Luke Schenn
2012 3rd round pick



I like this trade a lot, I think the value is there for both teams. Let's get past Malone's NTC and just imagine it wasn't there. Malone is like KY jelly for Brian Burke, just making it easier to slide him in with the Leafs . Schenn I think would prosper from Boucher's coaching and would fit in well.

There are 2 other trades there, one with Pittsburgh which I am not a fan of, and one with LA for Bernier and Jack that would be amazing, but really unrealistic. Link to read the article below if you haven't read it.

http://tblhockeybuzz.blogspot.com/20...hats.html#more

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Old
02-20-2012, 08:40 PM
  #306
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Gillis is highly unlikely to move Schneider until the off-season, at which time Purcell + 2nd is good value for both teams, especially for TB considering the role Schneider would assume and the possibility of of replacing Purcell's production via one or some combination of UFA, trade and internal option.

I highly doubt SFY would hold out for an even-up swap just to hold onto a surplus pick.

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02-20-2012, 10:29 PM
  #307
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IMO A lot depends on what SFY thinks of Tokarski. If he is the starting goalie in a couple of years then someone like Nabokov may be a good fill until next year Nab/Garon, year after Nab/Tic then Tic/backup would be the best way to use most of our assets getting a couple of top 4 D.

If not the trade or UFA route needs to be followed.

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02-20-2012, 10:55 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by nhljohnson View Post
Gillis is highly unlikely to move Schneider until the off-season, at which time Purcell + 2nd is good value for both teams, especially for TB considering the role Schneider would assume and the possibility of of replacing Purcell's production via one or some combination of UFA, trade and internal option.

I highly doubt SFY would hold out for an even-up swap just to hold onto a surplus pick.
Right on. Especially when we're more than likely going to use at least one of those surplus picks for the purpose of making a trade anyways. If Purcell and a 2nd is what it takes for Schneider, Yzerman will almost certainly pull the trigger. I'm not even fully sold on Schneider yet and I think Purcell has a higher ceiling than most give him credit for. That said, we've got some good wingers already in the organization and will have a good chunk of money to spend when the free agency period rolls around. I doubt we end up trading for a winger, but you never know.

As for Tokarski, I'm sure everyone expected him to be better than he has been so far this season. It's too early to give up on him, but he just hasn't yet shown enough progress to make me believe he's going to be ready for a role in the NHL anytime soon. Things may change in the upcoming weeks of course, but a player like Schneider at least gives us hope that we'll have a mainstay in net for years to come.

My guess is we'll be without one of Purcell or Malone by the beginning of the 2012-2013 season. The latter being moved would free up a healthy chunk of cap space but we'll have plenty anyways, and it looks like there's a chance Ohlund's contract will come off the books as well.

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02-21-2012, 03:56 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Reading Michael Stuarts Tampa Bay Blog, he posted an interesting trade that I was curious to see what my fellow HF Board brethren thought of it.



Malone
2012/2013 2nd round pick (conditional )




Luke Schenn
2012 3rd round pick



I like this trade a lot, I think the value is there for both teams. Let's get past Malone's NTC and just imagine it wasn't there. Malone is like KY jelly for Brian Burke, just making it easier to slide him in with the Leafs . Schenn I think would prosper from Boucher's coaching and would fit in well.

There are 2 other trades there, one with Pittsburgh which I am not a fan of, and one with LA for Bernier and Jack that would be amazing, but really unrealistic. Link to read the article below if you haven't read it.

http://tblhockeybuzz.blogspot.com/20...hats.html#more
Done. Really like this from the Bolts perspective.

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02-21-2012, 09:03 AM
  #310
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Connolly for Schneider in the draft, that's what I would do

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02-21-2012, 09:04 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Reading Michael Stuarts Tampa Bay Blog, he posted an interesting trade that I was curious to see what my fellow HF Board brethren thought of it.



Malone
2012/2013 2nd round pick (conditional )




Luke Schenn
2012 3rd round pick



I like this trade a lot, I think the value is there for both teams. Let's get past Malone's NTC and just imagine it wasn't there. Malone is like KY jelly for Brian Burke, just making it easier to slide him in with the Leafs . Schenn I think would prosper from Boucher's coaching and would fit in well.

There are 2 other trades there, one with Pittsburgh which I am not a fan of, and one with LA for Bernier and Jack that would be amazing, but really unrealistic. Link to read the article below if you haven't read it.

http://tblhockeybuzz.blogspot.com/20...hats.html#more
Why not

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Old
02-21-2012, 09:17 AM
  #312
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definitely wouldnt mind seeing schenn in a bolts uniform. Him and stamkos are good buddys and Im sure that would be motivation for schenn to become the beast d he was drafted to be.

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02-21-2012, 09:27 AM
  #313
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Right on. Especially when we're more than likely going to use at least one of those surplus picks for the purpose of making a trade anyways. If Purcell and a 2nd is what it takes for Schneider, Yzerman will almost certainly pull the trigger. I'm not even fully sold on Schneider yet and I think Purcell has a higher ceiling than most give him credit for. That said, we've got some good wingers already in the organization and will have a good chunk of money to spend when the free agency period rolls around. I doubt we end up trading for a winger, but you never know.

As for Tokarski, I'm sure everyone expected him to be better than he has been so far this season. It's too early to give up on him, but he just hasn't yet shown enough progress to make me believe he's going to be ready for a role in the NHL anytime soon. Things may change in the upcoming weeks of course, but a player like Schneider at least gives us hope that we'll have a mainstay in net for years to come.

My guess is we'll be without one of Purcell or Malone by the beginning of the 2012-2013 season. The latter being moved would free up a healthy chunk of cap space but we'll have plenty anyways, and it looks like there's a chance Ohlund's contract will come off the books as well.

....he's leading the AHL in wins

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02-21-2012, 09:56 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
....he's leading the AHL in wins


Dont interject facts into his logic. It ruins it.

Tokarski has been good this season. Struggled a little bit at the beginning of the year but has since become a top 5 goalie in the AHL with solid numbers. I still think he needs another year, maybe even two, before he is completely ready for the NHL, but thats about right on par for how goalies develop. I also still think he could be a future number 1 in the NHL, but the fact remains we do need something now so I wouldnt be opposed to a trade for one if the chance came up. But like I said before, Im not giving up anything proven for it, like Purcell.

I would do Connolly for Schneider straight up. Or a mid tier prospect plus two seconds for him. Something along those lines. Thats it. If thats not enough, then we can get something cheaper and then if we are still interested in Schneider after next season, we can sign him for free as a UFA.

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02-21-2012, 11:16 AM
  #315
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Main trade board says Viktor Fasth may want to come to NHL, and may even accept a 2 way deal. Speculation last year SFY was interested but Fasth wanted a 1-way deal.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1113237

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02-21-2012, 11:19 AM
  #316
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With their depth at center, I don't see a high interest in Connolly. I think Gillis would like to get a top 10 draft pick for Schneider to select one of the defensemen at the top of this draft. With Salo likely retiring soon, a top 4 defensemen to play with Edler in a couple years is more useful to Gillis.

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02-21-2012, 11:23 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by CP View Post
With their depth at center, I don't see a high interest in Connolly. I think Gillis would like to get a top 10 draft pick for Schneider to select one of the defensemen at the top of this draft. With Salo likely retiring soon, a top 4 defensemen to play with Edler in a couple years is more useful to Gillis.
Connolly is a winger. And I don't think anyone would give a top-10 pick for him.

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02-21-2012, 11:27 AM
  #318
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With their depth at center, I don't see a high interest in Connolly. I think Gillis would like to get a top 10 draft pick for Schneider to select one of the defensemen at the top of this draft. With Salo likely retiring soon, a top 4 defensemen to play with Edler in a couple years is more useful to Gillis.
Connolly is a winger number 1. Number 2, Im sure he would love to get a top 10 pick. But he wont.

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02-21-2012, 12:13 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Im sure he would love to get a top 10 pick. But he wont.
I'm not at all sure about that. It may not come from Tampa, but there is lots of interest in Schneider. He won't be traded until the summer, but I'm pretty sure someone will pop for him. With the Canucks current depth, forwards are not a big priority and they have a number in the system. Top four defensemen is where Gillis would like to build depth. Anyway, I'm pretty sure Connelly won't get it done.

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02-21-2012, 12:25 PM
  #320
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I'm not at all sure about that. It may not come from Tampa, but there is lots of interest in Schneider. He won't be traded until the summer, but I'm pretty sure someone will pop for him. With the Canucks current depth, forwards are not a big priority and they have a number in the system. Top four defensemen is where Gillis would like to build depth. Anyway, I'm pretty sure Connelly won't get it done.
The only other teams that needs a number 1 goalie and will have a top 10 pick are the NYI and the CBJ. But I highly doubt you get either of those picks either.

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Old
02-21-2012, 02:05 PM
  #321
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....he's leading the AHL in wins
Ah, the old Edwin Jackson argument.

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02-21-2012, 02:35 PM
  #322
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Fun comparison between Tik and Bishop. They have played the same amount of games but Bishop has a 2.25GAA and a 92.9% save% and 6 shutouts. He has also faced 1,119 shots.

Tik has a 2.41GAA and a 90.4% save% and has 4 shutouts. He has faced 854 shots.


By those numbers Bishop is playing on the weaker team defensively but has performed better than Tik comparatively.

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02-21-2012, 02:45 PM
  #323
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Fun comparison between Tik and Bishop. They have played the same amount of games but Bishop has a 2.25GAA and a 92.9% save% and 6 shutouts. He has also faced 1,119 shots.

Tik has a 2.41GAA and a 90.4% save% and has 4 shutouts. He has faced 854 shots.


By those numbers Bishop is playing on the weaker team defensively but has performed better than Tik comparatively.
Yep. I really hope Yzerman is giving him a long and hard look in the off-season.

Also, (kind of OT - as this is the TD discussion thread), what are the chances of Riku Helenius returning to North America? His numbers are just unreal (27 GP, 1.55 GAA, 0.937 SV%, 6 SO - leading the SM- Liiga in all categories)!

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02-21-2012, 03:32 PM
  #324
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Hockey Break @***********
Hearing Tampa Bay is also going hard after Ben Bishop...
https://*****************************

Not sure how legit, though.

Edit: Ok, they're getting cencored.

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02-21-2012, 04:03 PM
  #325
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Or before the deadline? RT @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Lots of picks for Tampa to try for a goalie come the off-season, keep that in mind...

Could be nothing or could be suggesting we're going after Bishop or someone else.

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