IF Futureshop carries the CE (and ANet already announced that we can pre-purchase the game from retailers and get all the goodies too), I might just order the CE.
Eh. I was excited yesterday, thinking May, maybe.
(I pictured 3-4 BETA weekends, from April to late may, every two weeks)
But now... There are rumors about a BETA weekend once per month...
And there will be multiple BETA weekends... So looking like late July at best.
Gah.
I think the first closed beta from the applications sent in is late March and the only beta of March (besides those already testing).
I'm guessing it's going to be more frequent than once a month and the only reason it is the one test in March was because they are dealing with retailers and they had the press beta in late February - and the press kind of took their time releasing footage, etc...
Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.
I never bothered to farm or build a fortune in GW1. I never bought the 60k armors. I didn't care for that.
Now I have the choice of using my REAL money, buy gems, give it to REAL players (not gold farmers) and afford myself the 60k armors. The same players will have played to earn that gold, and be reward with gems i.e. cash shop items. Everyone is happy, the developers don't have to deal with gold farmers, and I don't have to care about grinding for gold.
I never bothered to farm or build a fortune in GW1. I never bought the 60k armors. I didn't care for that.
Now I have the choice of using my REAL money, buy gems, give it to REAL players (not gold farmers) and afford myself the 60k armors. The same players will have played to earn that gold, and be reward with gems i.e. cash shop items. Everyone is happy, the developers don't have to deal with gold farmers, and I don't have to care about grinding for gold.
We're not gonna agree there, I think RMT in MMOs is complete bull, especially if it goes beyond fluff items and actually dips into the economy and lets you buy meaningful items.
Very disappointed with this latest development, my excitement for GW2 has considerably dampened.
For example, I played several MMOs...
I played EQ, for example, raided high-end etc.
I expected to see the effort I put in, both time and learning about game mechanics and raid encounters to pay off, and it did.
You get gear advantage over casuals, content gets easier and the next tier of raids is available etc.
I play Age of Conan, casually, and never expected high-end items.
Point is, not everyone should be expecting to see all the content and beat it in an MMO.
I raid for 3 months and get drops... Someone else buys same items for 20$?
We're not gonna agree there, I think RMT in MMOs is complete bull, especially if it goes beyond fluff items and actually dips into the economy and lets you buy meaningful items.
Very disappointed with this latest development, my excitement for GW2 has considerably dampened.
For example, I played several MMOs...
I played EQ, for example, raided high-end etc.
I expected to see the effort I put in, both time and learning about game mechanics and raid encounters to pay off, and it did.
You get gear advantage over casuals, content gets easier and the next tier of raids is available etc.
I play Age of Conan, casually, and never expected high-end items.
Point is, not everyone should be expecting to see all the content and beat it in an MMO.
I raid for 3 months and get drops... Someone else buys same items for 20$?
Yeah, no. That's just weak.
I'm a "casual gamer" with over 3000 hours spent on GW1. "Very casual" I like to say.
Here are some quotes that sum my feelings:
Quote:
Requiring grind to achieve something doesn't make a game "hardcore", it makes it "terrible". You can reward players with challenging gameplay without putting everything behind an enormous time barrier. The trouble is, traditional MMOs indoctrinate players into thinking that skill is synonymous with time spent, or rather that if you don't have the time to play 3 hours a day (or more), you don't deserve to have access to a game's most difficult content. This is bullcrap. If you really want to spend that much time playing a single game, it better be because you're having fun, not because it's wasting your time.
Quote:
I don't think GW2 is too casual. But, if you need to chase that carrot on a stick to have fun, then GW2 probably won't be your cup of tea. It's just a different style of game that emphasizes having fun as opposed to grinding for gear or achievements.
Quote:
I do agree that when if "the game starts at max level with raiding" is your cup of tea... you might not have fun in GW2.
I've accepted the fact that GW2 won't please fans of traditional MMO's.
I never bothered to farm or build a fortune in GW1. I never bought the 60k armors. I didn't care for that.
Now I have the choice of using my REAL money, buy gems, give it to REAL players (not gold farmers) and afford myself the 60k armors. The same players will have played to earn that gold, and be reward with gems i.e. cash shop items. Everyone is happy, the developers don't have to deal with gold farmers, and I don't have to care about grinding for gold.
I'm no MMO expert but this seems like the most retarded concept ever.
I've accepted the fact that GW2 won't please fans of traditional MMO's.
I'm still trying it and I'm very much excited about it.
I'm completely open to new concepts and I hope I like it.
But as far what an MMO should be, to me, is open/contested world, that requires time and effort to master.
It needs a learning curve and it needs to have some sort of progression to keep PvE alive.
I also understand that GW is very PvP-centered while I look primarily for high-end PvE content, and if I don't like it, fine, no harm, no foul.
With all that said, the entire RMT concept has nothing to do with game design, and I'm completely against it in any form apart from strictly fluff-only items (costumes, decorations, pets, etc.).
Dipping into stuff like Ressurection Orbs, Mystic Keys, Loot Bags, XP Potions...
That's just weak IMO.
...
As for my idea of an MMO, I'm hoping either ES delivers or maybe EQ3 if it goes back to its core.
Vanguard:SOH is easily the best MMO out there, sadly it had a catastrophic launch and never recovered. It's more of an old school MMO with grinds removed.
The best MMO that never was, they call it.
I'm still trying it and I'm very much excited about it.
I'm completely open to new concepts and I hope I like it.
But as far what an MMO should be, to me, is open/contested world, that requires time and effort to master.
It needs a learning curve and it needs to have some sort of progression to keep PvE alive.
I also understand that GW is very PvP-centered while I look primarily for high-end PvE content, and if I don't like it, fine, no harm, no foul.
With all that said, the entire RMT concept has nothing to do with game design, and I'm completely against it in any form apart from strictly fluff-only items (costumes, decorations, pets, etc.).
Dipping into stuff like Ressurection Orbs, Mystic Keys, Loot Bags, XP Potions...
That's just weak IMO.
There are definitely a couple things in the cash shop (at least what we know of it) that I question as well, the rez orb for sure, maybe the keys but maybe those just lead to more fluff so who knows. none of it's finalized so hopefully the beta will weed out any of the bad stuff (I believe they said it was going to be tested in this weekends beta. I wouldn't worry about being able to pay 2 win or pay for the best stuff in the game. There are plenty of dungeon specific items/gear that the only way to get it is by completing dungeons and such, can't be bought using real money. (GW2 isn't really a gear-centric game as it were though)
Quote:
...
As for my idea of an MMO, I'm hoping either ES delivers or maybe EQ3 if it goes back to its core.
Vanguard:SOH is easily the best MMO out there, sadly it had a catastrophic launch and never recovered. It's more of an old school MMO with grinds removed.
The best MMO that never was, they call it.
I remember doing the beta for Vanguard, yeah that was a brutal launch. It definitely had promise, a shame it didn't come to be. I had thought about going back to it after i heard they had fixed a lot of the issues but just never did.
I'm still trying it and I'm very much excited about it.
I'm completely open to new concepts and I hope I like it.
But as far what an MMO should be, to me, is open/contested world, that requires time and effort to master.
It needs a learning curve and it needs to have some sort of progression to keep PvE alive.
I also understand that GW is very PvP-centered while I look primarily for high-end PvE content, and if I don't like it, fine, no harm, no foul.
With all that said, the entire RMT concept has nothing to do with game design, and I'm completely against it in any form apart from strictly fluff-only items (costumes, decorations, pets, etc.).
Dipping into stuff like Ressurection Orbs, Mystic Keys, Loot Bags, XP Potions...
That's just weak IMO.
...
As for my idea of an MMO, I'm hoping either ES delivers or maybe EQ3 if it goes back to its core.
Vanguard:SOH is easily the best MMO out there, sadly it had a catastrophic launch and never recovered. It's more of an old school MMO with grinds removed.
The best MMO that never was, they call it.
I'd disagree that it's PvP centered. And I'm sure there will be a learning curve - the people that don't follow it well enough will die a lot in some of the harder PvE stuff (dungeons) and especially in the really high-end PvE (explorable dungeons).
It's attempting to be a very visual game - visual skills, dodging, not a lot of Red-Bars-Go-Up and 2-3 guys tanking all the aoe and damage.
In that sense a level 10 could easily be more skilled and a better choice than a level 20 - especially when you consider scaling for the different areas.
The PvE (all of it casual to hardcore) attempts to take away the focus from gear, gear, gear for the high end stuff and put it towards skill - so dodging the right attacks, positioning well, casting the right skills, solving puzzles (to a lesser extent).
That's just my impression though.
It's probably going to be a game where the casual stuff is easy enough to get through but you really have to learn and learn from your mistakes instead of gearing up and acting *somewhat* like a robot when you go into the more difficult tasks.
I'm also aware many may like the careful planning and the way you fight in WoW high-end stuff. That's not for me personally.
Please watch this video. This game is no tank and spank. It has a steep learning curve, that will challenge seasoned MMO veterans. You won't last long if you stay in one spot smashing macros.
Please watch this video. This game is no tank and spank. It has a steep learning curve, that will challenge seasoned MMO veterans. You won't last long if you stay in one spot smashing macros.
I saw and it's very intriguing.
However, the game's not gear-centered and I respect that.
Problem is, once I run the (ONLY) 8 explorable dungeons 4x each, there's simply no PvE content to conquer.
Now, that's fine for people that want to PvP only, but honestly, MMO PvP has never been my thing, for PvP i play CounterStrike or Dota.
There's a HUGE pool of people who prefer PvE in MMOs, so I'm wondering whether ANet just ignored that bit, or is there something there that I'm not seeing?
I really don't get how daft these companies are.
Put in 3 contested dungeons for the old-school PvE people, lump in a dozen instances for the new WoW-generation, and make PvP goal based and balanced. And EVERYBODY'S happy.
And yet, after WoW came out exactly zero games have had it all.
However, the game's not gear-centered and I respect that.
Problem is, once I run the (ONLY) 8 explorable dungeons 4x each, there's simply no PvE content to conquer.
Now, that's fine for people that want to PvP only, but honestly, MMO PvP has never been my thing, for PvP i play CounterStrike or Dota.
There's a HUGE pool of people who prefer PvE in MMOs, so I'm wondering whether ANet just ignored that bit, or is there something there that I'm not seeing?
I really don't get how daft these companies are.
Put in 3 contested dungeons for the old-school PvE people, lump in a dozen instances for the new WoW-generation, and make PvP goal based and balanced. And EVERYBODY'S happy.
And yet, after WoW came out exactly zero games have had it all.
I don't know what else to say aside the fact that the GW2 world is littered with dynamic events and historic battles such as fighting the Shatterer:
and example Tequatl the Sunless:
And many mores...
The adventure of exploring the world on your way to high level is equivalent to normal MMO's idea of "end game content". I'm sure they will be adding dungeons in expansions, and I'm not worried about lacking content.
Why? It's most *similar* to EVE Online and that's pretty much the only MMO I can think of that had a decent virtual economy going on.
It's different, the developers took a hard look at the games and decided to make it somewhat like EVE but not entirely.
If it works, it works. If it fails, hopefully they will make adjustments before the game dies.
I played FFXI for a bit. It was a difficult game but it had an interesting economy that you had to work hard for to get good equipment. It was as simple as that. If you wanted to get money you could religiously farm enemies and sell their drops, or participate in PvE "raids" of sorts, or the unorthodox task of waiting for special enemies to spawn and getting their rare drops at a 10% rate (which I did). Or you could spend a couple hundred dollars for a couple million gil; which in the grand scheme of things was an awful deal, but it was still ridiculous. What I liked about FFXI's economy, aside from RMT, was that if you were smart you could actually take advantage of it and make millions, purely in game. I thought it was a fantastic system that made you think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could essentially bust my ass for a couple of weeks and get a good piece of armor, only to have some guy who plays for an hour every couple of days spend the extra 50 bucks he has laying around on the exact same piece of equipment? I understand this game preaches about being different and player freedom around every turn, but you should in fact be restricted in terms of gear if you can't put in the time to get it.
I apologize if I am totally missing the boat here, because I have never played a GW game, but if it's what I'm thinking of, I have a very hard time defending RMT in any situation.
I love the look of this game and I can't wait to play it though.
Please watch this video. This game is no tank and spank. It has a steep learning curve, that will challenge seasoned MMO veterans. You won't last long if you stay in one spot smashing macros.
Good lord what the hell was even going on during that video? A complete cluster **** around every corner. Is every fight going to be that fast?
Maybe I need to reread the OP your generously put together, can I just walk outside of a city and go about my business?
I'll say one thing, half of my friends who played FFXI with me were in parties with windower up just browsing the internet. Looks like there won't be much downtime in this game.
I played FFXI for a bit. It was a difficult game but it had an interesting economy that you had to work hard for to get good equipment. It was as simple as that. If you wanted to get money you could religiously farm enemies and sell their drops, or participate in PvE "raids" of sorts, or the unorthodox task of waiting for special enemies to spawn and getting their rare drops at a 10% rate (which I did). Or you could spend a couple hundred dollars for a couple million gil; which in the grand scheme of things was an awful deal, but it was still ridiculous. What I liked about FFXI's economy, aside from RMT, was that if you were smart you could actually take advantage of it and make millions, purely in game. I thought it was a fantastic system that made you think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could essentially bust my ass for a couple of weeks and get a good piece of armor, only to have some guy who plays for an hour every couple of days spend the extra 50 bucks he has laying around on the exact same piece of equipment? I understand this game preaches about being different and player freedom around every turn, but you should in fact be restricted in terms of gear if you can't put in the time to get it.
I apologize if I am totally missing the boat here, because I have never played a GW game, but if it's what I'm thinking of, I have a very hard time defending RMT in any situation.
I love the look of this game and I can't wait to play it though.
I don't know if they will sell armor in the cash shop or not - nothing is really finalized except probably the ability to trade Cash Shop currency into gold and gold back into Cash Shop currency. I'd probably go with no - or if it's yes, it would be basic, bland armor.
That being said - gear doesn't restrict very much at all. GW1 was the prime example where they had a specific cap and the only differences were visual (so if you spent lots of time farming you could get armor that cost more, looked better but gave no actual benefit when fighting)...
GW2 might be slightly different where you might get a slight advantage depending on your gear but it's nothing major.
It's still unclear - for example if you do the explorable mode of a dungeon like Jack Bourdain linked to - is the armor reward at the end automatically 'soulbound' (linked to your character, can't sell in other words)? If it is then I'd say there's no way the guy spending $$ could get the same armor piece as you without actually going through the content.
If it's not soulbound/linked-to-character theoretically they could transfer $$ -> gems -> gold -> the armor piece but it's unclear how much real money that would cost + they would need to get to appropriate level to use (there are 8 dungeons so 8 armor sets at various levels with probably multiple level 80 sets?) + they'd still suck at the game, everyone would immediately realize it and never party with that person for something like explorable dungeon mode or PvP.
There's no way of knowing for sure but your skill and the time you put in achieving that skill level will almost always outshine someone who buys their way (if that's possible).
IDK it's still unclear but a player won't ever be as good as you regardless of the money they spend as long as you play and learn how to play better.
I don't know if they will sell armor in the cash shop or not - nothing is really finalized except probably the ability to trade Cash Shop currency into gold and gold back into Cash Shop currency. I'd probably go with no - or if it's yes, it would be basic, bland armor.
That being said - gear doesn't restrict very much at all. GW1 was the prime example where they had a specific cap and the only differences were visual (so if you spent lots of time farming you could get armor that cost more, looked better but gave no actual benefit when fighting)...
GW2 might be slightly different where you might get a slight advantage depending on your gear but it's nothing major.
It's still unclear - for example if you do the explorable mode of a dungeon like Jack Bourdain linked to - is the armor reward at the end automatically 'soulbound' (linked to your character, can't sell in other words)? If it is then I'd say there's no way the guy spending $$ could get the same armor piece as you without actually going through the content.
If it's not soulbound/linked-to-character theoretically they could transfer $$ -> gems -> gold -> the armor piece but it's unclear how much real money that would cost + they would need to get to appropriate level to use (there are 8 dungeons so 8 armor sets at various levels with probably multiple level 80 sets?) + they'd still suck at the game, everyone would immediately realize it and never party with that person for something like explorable dungeon mode or PvP.
There's no way of knowing for sure but your skill and the time you put in achieving that skill level will almost always outshine someone who buys their way (if that's possible).
IDK it's still unclear but a player won't ever be as good as you regardless of the money they spend as long as you play and learn how to play better.
Got it, thanks.
I should have been more clear, I didn't mean specifically armor. I really just meant you could buy in-game cash which you can in turn use to buy the armor I spent weeks trying to get.
The soul-bound thing is exactly what SE did in FFXI to combat RMT, and it definitely worked, I hope GW2 does something like this. And I fully expected RMT, it's in nearly every MMORPG that exists. I don't, however, like the idea of a developer openly coming out and talking about it as a consideration.
I see you said 8 dungeons? Is the game world very small then? Or is it going to be massive with scattered dungeons? I certainly hope for the latter, judging by the scale of the 6 or so cities shown.
Those giant battles look like a ton of fun, but I definitely hope I can just hop online with my friends for an hour, make a group, and go kill random enemies and explore. Regardless I apologize for the questions and I'll go read the OP.
I should have been more clear, I didn't mean specifically armor. I really just meant you could buy in-game cash which you can in turn use to buy the armor I spent weeks trying to get.
The soul-bound thing is exactly what SE did in FFXI to combat RMT, and it definitely worked, I hope GW2 does something like this. And I fully expected RMT, it's in nearly every MMORPG that exists. I don't, however, like the idea of a developer openly coming out and talking about it as a consideration.
I see you said 8 dungeons? Is the game world very small then? Or is it going to be massive with scattered dungeons? I certainly hope for the latter, judging by the scale of the 6 or so cities shown.
Those giant battles look like a ton of fun, but I definitely hope I can just hop online with my friends for an hour, make a group, and go kill random enemies and explore. Regardless I apologize for the questions and I'll go read the OP.
I'm not too sure, I think it's 8.
8 dungeons, you do a basic storymode version - that unlocks the explorable version.
The explorable version has 3 separate paths and a final boss? Or something like that? Maybe just 3 paths and 3 bosses.
The video you quoted - they said they were down their for 4 hours on 1/3 of the very first dungeon in the game (at level 35ish). IDK if you can save progress or not because 4 hours sounds like a long time. If they are all the same length that's at least 12 hours if you're not an organized group going blazing fast, 96 hours for all dungeons. That's a REALLY, REALLY rough estimate and as people get accustom to the game it will probably go down. Oh and plus the hours (probably not per dungeon) to unlock them in storymode.
The big boss fights are also found outside of dungeons, occasionally at the end of a regular dynamic event chain (basically a quest chain but you don't really talk to someone or anyone - they just *appear* and some text/voice will tell you what is happening and what to do if you want to participate).
There's also storymode boss fights too?
I guess their philosophy is a breathing world. There's minigames in the cities, there's a lot of voice recording.
If you're really into hardcore end-game stuff - I can't say for sure, it will have less than WoW (makes sense, it's new game, WoW has expansions) but GW2 will probably add content and add expansions (for instance GW1 had almost no end-game content, it was really designed to be a PvP game but they did start adding end game content for free and also through their EXP packs)... but for $60 it's probably going to give you a decent amount of fun as any single player game today.
Last edited by The Reg Season SC: 03-24-2012 at 12:36 AM.
8 dungeons, you do a basic storymode version - that unlocks the explorable version.
The explorable version has 3 separate paths and a final boss? Or something like that? Maybe just 3 paths and 3 bosses.
The video you quoted - they said they were down their for 4 hours on 1/3 of the very first dungeon in the game (at level 35ish). IDK if you can save progress or not because 4 hours sounds like a long time. If they are all the same length that's at least 12 hours if you're not an organized group going blazing fast, 96 hours for all dungeons. That's a REALLY, REALLY rough estimate and as people get accustom to the game it will probably go down. Oh and plus the hours (probably not per dungeon) to unlock them in storymode.
The big boss fights are also found outside of dungeons, occasionally at the end of a regular dynamic event chain (basically a quest chain but you don't really talk to someone or anyone - they just *appear* and some text/voice will tell you what is happening and what to do if you want to participate).
There's also storymode boss fights too?
I guess their philosophy is a breathing world. There's minigames in the cities, there's a lot of voice recording.
If you're really into hardcore end-game stuff - I can't say for sure, it will have less than WoW (makes sense, it's new game, WoW has expansions) but GW2 will probably add content and add expansions (for instance GW1 had almost no end-game content, it was really designed to be a PvP game but they did start adding end game content for free and also through their EXP packs)... but for $60 it's probably going to give you a decent amount of fun as any single player game today.
Edit: Reread your post and the OP. So the story mode you were referring to were the dungeons. So there is an open world with dynamic events, and then there are 8 massive dungeons with hours upon hours of story and content in each. Interesting, sounds sweet.
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