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ATD 2012 Lineup Advice Thread

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Old
02-17-2012, 09:58 AM
  #226
BraveCanadian
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Johnny Bucyk - Joe Sakic -Brett Hull
Jack Adams - Marty Barry - Bill Mosienko


Thoughts on my top six?

I really like the offensive firepower I have on these lines, and I think they are pretty solid two-way lines as well. Bucyk & Adams gives them enough of a physical threat, and ability to do corner work that they shouldn't get pushed around too much, either.

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Old
02-17-2012, 02:10 PM
  #227
BillyShoe1721
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I think the unit as a whole works well. Intangibles are covered on both lines, and you found a good playmaking winger in Mosienko to complement Barry's bias to goalscoring(despite what quotes say).

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Old
02-17-2012, 02:14 PM
  #228
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Hey all,

Trying to decide which LW "glue guy" is should play on which line. I can either go:

Harry Watson - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
Baldy Northcott - Pat Lafontaine - Alex Mogilny

OR

Baldy Northcott - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
Harry Watson - Pat Lafontaine - Alex Mogilny


Both were really big dudes who could skate well. Both brought physical play, and were very good offensive contributors. Both were used in checking roles, and had notable success against superstar RWers (Conacher and Howe), and both had some dynamite playoff performances.

I'm leaning towards the first scenario at the moment. I like the playmaking edge that Northcott brings to the Lafontaine-Mogilny line. For the Gretzky line, I love that Watson had a reputation as a terrifying fighter, but that he played an exceptionally clean game (only once over 20 PIM in a season). I'm aiming for a team that stays out of the box as much as possible, and so I like the idea of Watson playing with those two at even strength.

Thoughts?

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Old
02-17-2012, 02:19 PM
  #229
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None of them, Brind'Amour will be playing on that 1st line LW.

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02-17-2012, 02:35 PM
  #230
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I'm thinking I may actually clone Rod Brind'Amour and play him at all 3 positions on the first line.

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02-17-2012, 02:40 PM
  #231
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The Bod Line!

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Old
02-18-2012, 09:01 PM
  #232
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What kind of LW should I get for my third line?

xxxxx-Larionov-Rousseau

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Old
02-18-2012, 09:13 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Hey all,

Trying to decide which LW "glue guy" is should play on which line. I can either go:

Harry Watson - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
Baldy Northcott - Pat Lafontaine - Alex Mogilny

OR

Baldy Northcott - Wayne Gretzky - Jari Kurri
Harry Watson - Pat Lafontaine - Alex Mogilny


Both were really big dudes who could skate well. Both brought physical play, and were very good offensive contributors. Both were used in checking roles, and had notable success against superstar RWers (Conacher and Howe), and both had some dynamite playoff performances.

I'm leaning towards the first scenario at the moment. I like the playmaking edge that Northcott brings to the Lafontaine-Mogilny line. For the Gretzky line, I love that Watson had a reputation as a terrifying fighter, but that he played an exceptionally clean game (only once over 20 PIM in a season). I'm aiming for a team that stays out of the box as much as possible, and so I like the idea of Watson playing with those two at even strength.

Thoughts?
If Watson was such a fighter, why did he have such low PIM totals? IMO, the only thing Gretzky-Kurri is missing is nastiness, so a guy who can bust heads is a plus, IMO. Otherwise, I like this setup a lot

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Old
02-18-2012, 09:15 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
What kind of LW should I get for my third line?

xxxxx-Larionov-Rousseau
A gritty goal scorer - both those guys are non-physical pass first guys. Are you sure you like your top 2 lines as they are in te roster thread?

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Old
02-18-2012, 09:24 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
A gritty goal scorer - both those guys are non-physical pass first guys. Are you sure you like your top 2 lines as they are in te roster thread?
It can still change. The only ones really set in stone at this moment would be Jackson 1st line LW, Schmidt 1st line C.

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02-18-2012, 09:30 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If Watson was such a fighter, why did he have such low PIM totals? IMO, the only thing Gretzky-Kurri is missing is nastiness, so a guy who can bust heads is a plus, IMO. Otherwise, I like this setup a lot
There are actually quite a few references to him pummeling guys, but he was someone people didn't want to challenge, and didn't necessarily go looking for fights, ala Clark gillies. I'm on my phone now, but I can post them later.


Last edited by arrbez: 02-18-2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Old
02-18-2012, 09:52 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
There are actually quite a few references to him pummeling guys, but he was someone people didn't want to challenge, and didn't necessarily go looking for fights, ala Clark gillies. I'm on my phone now, but I can post them later.
I was actually surprised by his low PIM totals considering his rep

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:40 AM
  #238
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Guy Lapointe - Marcel Pronovost
Pat Stapleton - Ted Harris
Bert Corbeau

or

Guy Lapointe - Marcel Pronovost
Pat Stapleton - Bert Corbeau
Ted Harris

?

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Old
02-19-2012, 06:59 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
There are actually quite a few references to him pummeling guys, but he was someone people didn't want to challenge, and didn't necessarily go looking for fights, ala Clark gillies. I'm on my phone now, but I can post them later.
I tend to believe the bits about Watson being a fearsome fighter. He was very big for his time, and was apparently quite strong. I am less inclined towards positive thoughts of him as a scorer. His top two seasons Vs2 are 68, 68, and it's all downhill from there. I don't know much about his defensive reputation.

At any rate, Watson is certainly a guy who can go get the puck for Gretzky and bring a bit of intimidation to the line, though I'm not sure what else you're going to get out of him.

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02-19-2012, 07:01 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Guy Lapointe - Marcel Pronovost
Pat Stapleton - Ted Harris
Bert Corbeau
This. I don't really consider Corbeau a 2nd pairing defenseman at 32 teams, and even if he was, the defensive-minded Harris is still a better fit next to Stapleton.

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02-19-2012, 07:39 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I tend to believe the bits about Watson being a fearsome fighter. He was very big for his time, and was apparently quite strong. I am less inclined towards positive thoughts of him as a scorer. His top two seasons Vs2 are 68, 68, and it's all downhill from there. I don't know much about his defensive reputation.

At any rate, Watson is certainly a guy who can go get the puck for Gretzky and bring a bit of intimidation to the line, though I'm not sure what else you're going to get out of him.
From what I read, I kind of got the idea that Watson wasn't really an intimidator. He'd work the boards through brute strength, and was a good fighter if he was pushed, but wouldn't hit very much or start fights.

That sound about right?

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Old
02-19-2012, 07:50 AM
  #242
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From what I read, I kind of got the idea that Watson wasn't really an intimidator. He'd work the boards through brute strength, and was a good fighter if he was pushed, but wouldn't hit very much or start fights.

That sound about right?
Yeah...I didn't mean that he was nasty like a Gillies. In fact, I specifically remember reading something about him taking it easy on somebody physically when he could have really crushed him. But I think Watson is at least a credible policeman for the line if opposing teams try to push Gretzky around. The kind of guy who doesn't start fights, but can finish them.

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Old
02-19-2012, 08:51 AM
  #243
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Alexander Ovechkin - Steve Yzerman (C) - X
Clark Gillies- Sid Abel (A) - Tim Kerr
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Claude Lemieux

Chris Chelios (A) - X
Gary Suter - Ulf Samuelsson
Fern Flaman - X


Sedins would play with Kerr on the second PP unit.

Thoughts?

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Old
02-19-2012, 09:18 AM
  #244
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Alexander Ovechkin - Steve Yzerman (C) - X
Clark Gillies- Sid Abel (A) - Tim Kerr
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Claude Lemieux

Chris Chelios (A) - X
Gary Suter - Ulf Samuelsson
Fern Flaman - X


Sedins would play with Kerr on the second PP unit.

Thoughts?
On defense, I would suggest:

Chelios - Suter
Flaman - ???
Samuelsson - ???

At this point, I am skeptical that you can find a good partner for Chelios (who should be next to a puckmover, I think) who is less than a major weakness on a first pairing. Maybe you've got something up your sleeve, I dunno, but if not, I think moving Suter up to that spot is the rational thing to do. Your top pairing will see more ES icetime than any of your other skaters, generally. You really don't want to put someone in there who is not worthy of the minutes. Finding a credible puckmoving partner for Flaman on the second pairing is still possible, but I just think you're likely to get burned trying to put any defenseman that's still available on a top pairing here.

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02-19-2012, 09:23 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Alexander Ovechkin - Steve Yzerman (C) - X
Clark Gillies- Sid Abel (A) - Tim Kerr
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Claude Lemieux

Chris Chelios (A) - X
Gary Suter - Ulf Samuelsson
Fern Flaman - X


Sedins would play with Kerr on the second PP unit.

Thoughts?

I think Abel would be much better center for Ovechkin than Yzerman.

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Old
02-19-2012, 10:26 AM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I tend to believe the bits about Watson being a fearsome fighter. He was very big for his time, and was apparently quite strong. I am less inclined towards positive thoughts of him as a scorer. His top two seasons Vs2 are 68, 68, and it's all downhill from there. I don't know much about his defensive reputation.

At any rate, Watson is certainly a guy who can go get the puck for Gretzky and bring a bit of intimidation to the line, though I'm not sure what else you're going to get out of him.
I don't have any issues with his offensive output. There was a 10 year span where only Howe, Lindsay, and Richard scored more goals. He also peaked at 2nd in goal scoring one season. Rarely a threat for the goal title, but a very consistent 20 goal scorer with a penchant for clutch scoring. It's his playmaking that's more or less nonexistant, but hey, Gretzky.

There's plenty of evidence for him being a strong defensive player as well, including specific mentions of him shadowing Howe and Richard:


Quote:
A near capacity crowd of 14,547 turned out at Montreal last night to watch Richard's attempt at the record. But the Rocket fizzled once again. Harry Watson was assigned the task of covering the Canadiens' star wing, and he turned in a workmanlike job....

Coach Dick Irvin admitted: "I sure would have liked to have seen the Rocket score that goal against Toronto, but those Leafs checked him like their salaries depended on it" (Meiden Daily Journal, Nov 7 1952)
Quote:
"One guy who has been playing hockey for me in this series has been Harry Watson," said Smythe. "He has been checking Howe most of the time and Howe hasn't done anything with the teams at even strength." (Globe and Mail, March 30 1954)
Quote:
Watson was a physical LW who played the game aggressively but within the rules. He was a deceptively fast skater who was used to check the opposition's top scorers, but had a good scoring touch of his own. (Total Hockey)
Quote:
Harry Watson kept a close check on Richard - (New York Times, Nov 7 1952)
Quote:
Watson, the only leaf with more than 10 goals other than the Kennedy line, trails numerous other lefties in the points department, but we guarantee, without checking, that there are not many, if any, with a better defensive record. (Globe and Mail, Dec 29, 1951)
Quote:
Harry Watson was a remarkable hockey player... Watson is remembered as a hard-working leader. Fast and strong, the bulky left winger possessed great offensive and defensive ability (Wings of Fire)
Quote:
Mosdell almost broke loose, but Harry Watson raced madly down the ice to grab the puck and save the situation. (Backcheck: A Hockey Retrospective)

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Old
02-19-2012, 10:39 AM
  #247
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I don't have any issues with his offensive output. There was a 10 year span where only Howe, Lindsay, and Richard scored more goals.
I am not a fan of these "he was the Xth leading goal-scorer in the NHL over a Y year span" type of arguments. They amount to little more than intentional distortion, as they essentially compare the player in question only to players whose careers and peaks closely overlap his, which is a much smaller player pool than the entire NHL at any given time. We should really stop making these types of claims in the ATD.

Watson's ****down ability at even strength sounds pretty good, though.

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02-19-2012, 10:49 AM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Watson's ****down ability at even strength sounds pretty good, though.
I assume you spelled "shut" wrong? Perhaps substituted the "U" for another vowel?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I am not a fan of these "he was the Xth leading goal-scorer in the NHL over a Y year span" type of arguments. They amount to little more than intentional distortion, as they essentially compare the player in question only to players whose careers and peaks closely overlap his, which is a much smaller player pool than the entire NHL at any given time. We should really stop making these types of claims in the ATD.
I think it illustrates my point though, which is that Watson was a consistently strong goal scorer for the majority of his career. As I said, rarely a guy to challenge for the goal title, but a guy who could be relied on to score on a consistent basis.

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Old
02-19-2012, 04:20 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Alexander Ovechkin - Steve Yzerman (C) - X
Clark Gillies- Sid Abel (A) - Tim Kerr
Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Claude Lemieux

Chris Chelios (A) - X
Gary Suter - Ulf Samuelsson
Fern Flaman - X


Sedins would play with Kerr on the second PP unit.

Thoughts?
Claude Lemieux is a beautiful Sedin linemate even strength. Guy is basically a better version of Burrows. Agreed with Sturm that I'd probably move Suter up with Chelios.

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Old
02-19-2012, 08:42 PM
  #250
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So Blair Russell on 2nd line RW with the Legion of Doom, waste of his shutdown ability or good fit as the Renberg type?

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