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ATD 2012 Lineup Advice Thread

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Old
02-19-2012, 08:19 PM
  #251
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
So Blair Russell on 2nd line RW with the Legion of Doom, waste of his shutdown ability or good fit as the Renberg type?
I think it's a waste.... and lots of better offensive guys around.

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02-19-2012, 09:00 PM
  #252
Rob Scuderi
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That's what I figured after I checked out your bio on him but I wasn't sure since he saw some time with Bowie. Honestly though I thought a guy like Hyland would be lacking defensively for the role so I'll have to re-think things.

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02-19-2012, 09:17 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
That's what I figured after I checked out your bio on him but I wasn't sure since he saw some time with Bowie. Honestly though I thought a guy like Hyland would be lacking defensively for the role so I'll have to re-think things.
Bowie and Russel were pretty much together all the time for their entire careers.

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02-20-2012, 05:38 AM
  #254
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Thanks for the advice guys!

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02-20-2012, 09:58 AM
  #255
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Do you guys think I should keep Harmon with Doug Harvey, or put him as the anchor on my third pairing:

Right now my defense stands:

Doug Harvey-Glen Harmon
Eddie Gerard-Ott Heller

so should it be that or this:

Doug Harvey-Ott Heller
Eddie Gerard-xxx
Glen Harmon (I'm comfortable with him playing either side as he was a Second All-Star at right D despite being LH)

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:07 AM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Do you guys think I should keep Harmon with Doug Harvey, or put him as the anchor on my third pairing:

Right now my defense stands:

Doug Harvey-Glen Harmon
Eddie Gerard-Ott Heller

so should it be that or this:

Doug Harvey-Ott Heller
Eddie Gerard-xxx
Glen Harmon (I'm comfortable with him playing either side as he was a Second All-Star at right D despite being LH)
Keep him with Harvey.

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Old
02-20-2012, 10:51 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Keep him with Harvey.
I was thinking that. I probably would have taken Stanowski and Harmon both had he fallen/chaos not scooped me, and then I would have been able to put one of those two or Heller on the third pairing but yeah at this point I think that's the best I'm going to do defensively. I am a pretty big Harmon guy I believe he can definitely handle the first pairing minutes, and I really don't want to play him with Gerard because they're both on the smaller side (more Harmon than Gerard, but Gerard isn't big either).

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Old
02-20-2012, 02:08 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I was thinking that. I probably would have taken Stanowski and Harmon both had he fallen/chaos not scooped me, and then I would have been able to put one of those two or Heller on the third pairing but yeah at this point I think that's the best I'm going to do defensively. I am a pretty big Harmon guy I believe he can definitely handle the first pairing minutes, and I really don't want to play him with Gerard because they're both on the smaller side (more Harmon than Gerard, but Gerard isn't big either).
I think Harmon on a first pairing is going to get lit up. I'm not even remotely convinced by Harmon's 4th place AST voting finish in 1944-45 when he narrowly beat out for the last AST spot a guy named Frank Eddols, who has never been and will never be drafted in the ATD. In Harmon, you've basically got a guy who was a one time 2nd team all-star against decent competition (1948-49), and other than that got no more than token AST votes throughout his career other than the one hugely depleted war year. I think he'll get torn apart on your first pairing, quite frankly.

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02-20-2012, 02:33 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I think Harmon on a first pairing is going to get lit up. I'm not even remotely convinced by Harmon's 4th place AST voting finish in 1944-45 when he narrowly beat out for the last AST spot a guy named Frank Eddols, who has never been and will never be drafted in the ATD. In Harmon, you've basically got a guy who was a one time 2nd team all-star against decent competition (1948-49), and other than that got no more than token AST votes throughout his career other than the one hugely depleted war year. I think he'll get torn apart on your first pairing, quite frankly.
I think he's going to be fine with Harvey. Harvey masks a pretty decent amount of his deficincies, namely being small, with his being the best defensive guy ever.

That 1945 season goes both ways Sturm. Yeah Frank Eddols finished 5th in voting, but Harmon also beat out Earl Seibert, Dit Clapper (both of whom didn't receive any other votes at other positions, meaning they were defensemen this season) and Jack Crawford, two guys who are considered #1s here, and then a guy who is a #2/3. So I don't think that that 2nd team All-Star in 1945 was a weak one by any stretch. Just because it was war depleted doesn't mean that there weren't still high end defensemen out there. And I think he has more than token consideration other seasons. He got votes two other seasons in All-Star voting, plus made the All-Star game based on merit (i.e., he wasn't a member of the Cup Winner the previous year) a year that we don't have the voting numbers for, meaning I feel pretty confident he probably got votes that year as well. I am fully willing to agree he's one of the lower end first-pairing guys here, but I defintiely do not think he'll get eaten alive either.

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Old
02-20-2012, 02:43 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I think Harmon on a first pairing is going to get lit up. I'm not even remotely convinced by Harmon's 4th place AST voting finish in 1944-45 when he narrowly beat out for the last AST spot a guy named Frank Eddols, who has never been and will never be drafted in the ATD. In Harmon, you've basically got a guy who was a one time 2nd team all-star against decent competition (1948-49), and other than that got no more than token AST votes throughout his career other than the one hugely depleted war year. I think he'll get torn apart on your first pairing, quite frankly.
I don't think Harmon was ever a first pairing defenceman in the NHL, let alone the ATD.

If the stat about going 34 games without a GA is correct, I think that must speak to the quality of competition he faced as well as the quality of his play.

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Old
02-20-2012, 04:25 PM
  #261
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Herbie Lewis - Sergei Fedorov - Reggie Leach

What does everyone think about my second line?

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02-20-2012, 04:35 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Herbie Lewis - Sergei Fedorov - Reggie Leach

What does everyone think about my second line?
You are going to have to sell me on Fedorov. His top-10s and top-20s are probably the weakest among all top-6 forwards. Maybe his percentages are more impressive?

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Old
02-20-2012, 04:38 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Herbie Lewis - Sergei Fedorov - Reggie Leach

What does everyone think about my second line?
I like the Lewis/Fedorov combo as the basis for a two-way second line that can be used as a primary checking line and score in the counterattack. Lewis's playmaker is a good match for Fedorov's goal scoring. I'm not sure if you're getting the most out of Reggie Leach without a pure playmaker on his line, but he's not an awful fit.

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02-20-2012, 04:44 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
You are going to have to sell me on Fedorov. His top-10s and top-20s are probably the weakest among all top-6 forwards. Maybe his percentages are more impressive?
*(in 93-94 he was second behind Gretzky)

Fedorov's 8 best percentage seasons: *100, 90, 80, 76, 73, 70, 69, 64

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02-20-2012, 04:45 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I like the Lewis/Fedorov combo as the basis for a two-way second line that can be used as a primary checking line and score in the counterattack. Lewis's playmaker is a good match for Fedorov's goal scoring. I'm not sure if you're getting the most out of Reggie Leach without a pure playmaker on his line, but he's not an awful fit.
Well both Lewis and Fedorov are fine playmakers, Leach is adequate defensively, but with a strong presence in the aforementioned linemates, his goal-scoring prowess can be effective with such a high playmaking ability on the line.

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02-20-2012, 05:00 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
*(in 93-94 he was second behind Gretzky)

Fedorov's 8 best percentage seasons: *100, 90, 80, 76, 73, 70, 69, 64
Yeah, that looks pretty weak, doesn't it?

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:23 PM
  #267
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Yeah, that looks pretty weak, doesn't it?
I think we all give Fedorov more leeway here because it's known that he intentionally took it easy in the regular season, but would consistently make that choice pay off by being one of the very best players in the world when the playoffs came.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:37 PM
  #268
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I think we all give Fedorov more leeway here because it's known that he intentionally took it easy in the regular season, but would consistently make that choice pay off by being one of the very best players in the world when the playoffs came.
His offensive production doesn't really make a significant jump in the play-offs though.

Looking at his 4 straight 20 points play-offs, his play-off scoring level is the same as the regular season (1.10 PPG)

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02-20-2012, 06:38 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
His offensive production doesn't really make a significant jump in the play-offs though.

Looking at his 4 straight 20 points play-offs, his play-off scoring level is the same as the regular season (1.10 PPG)
1.10 PPG in the playoffs over a large sample size, while playing elite defense is awesome.

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Old
02-20-2012, 06:47 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
1.10 PPG in the playoffs over a large sample size, while playing elite defense is awesome.
Depends on the era. 1.10 is a great number, but when you're just 10th in PPG in those 4 seasons, it's a little less impressive, isn't it?

I'm well aware of Fedorov's defensive abilities, but I'm not impressed with his offense.

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02-20-2012, 06:51 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Depends on the era. 1.10 is a great number, but when you're just 10th in PPG in those 4 seasons, it's a little less impressive, isn't it?

I'm well aware of Fedorov's defensive abilities, but I'm not impressed with his offense.
Considering the team he played on rolled 4 lines, and that PPG was maintained over far more games than most of the guys ahead of him, it's very impressive.

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02-20-2012, 07:02 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Yeah, that looks pretty weak, doesn't it?
100, 90, 80, 76 in higher scoring years is pretty impressive, especially that 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
1.10 PPG in the playoffs over a large sample size, while playing elite defense is awesome.
That's very impressive, the fact that he was so complete and that he achieved what he did I think places him where he is on an all-time ranking. He elevates his game in the post-season from an already upper echelon level of play in the regular season.

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02-20-2012, 07:03 PM
  #273
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Considering the team he played on rolled 4 lines, and that PPG was maintained over far more games than most of the guys ahead of him, it's very impressive.
There's a big difference between rolling 4 lines and playing 4 lines. Detroit played 4 lines. The top lines still played significanly more minutes than the bottom lines.

It's not like the guys ahead of him had tiny sample sizes. Only 1 of the guys ahead of him played fewer than 21 games, and he was at 11.

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02-20-2012, 07:05 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
100, 90, 80, 76 in higher scoring years is pretty impressive, especially that 100%.
Compare that to the other centers.

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02-20-2012, 07:07 PM
  #275
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Compare that to the other centers.
How did the other centres do when they played against him?

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