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ATD 2012 Lineup Advice Thread

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Old
02-24-2012, 05:25 PM
  #401
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Curious as to what you guys think of Doug Weight possibly playing the point on our 2nd PP unit.

As of right now, I was thinking Bill Quackenbush and Art Ross on the 1st Unit, with Reg Noble on the 2nd.


EDIT: Ted Green and Bob Goldham are my other D so far
Bob Goldham is useless on the PP, so he's out. Ted Green is capable of playing on the PP, but Weight could probably do it better. Reg Noble's weird - he was a decent scorer as an all-round forward, but wasn't much of a scorer in years he played as a defenseman, unlike other converted forwards.

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02-24-2012, 05:34 PM
  #402
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Bob Goldham is useless on the PP, so he's out. Ted Green is capable of playing on the PP, but Weight could probably do it better. Reg Noble's weird - he was a decent scorer as an all-round forward, but wasn't much of a scorer in years he played as a defenseman, unlike other converted forwards.
Agree about Goldham, I had no intention of using him on the PP. I just wanted to list all my D...but then I forgot to add Ching Johnson, another guy who does not belong on the PP. Sorry for the confusion.

Noble is definitely hard to gauge. You get the impression that the whole reason he was moved back to D was because he was getting older and starting to lose a step or two. So do you say his lack of offensive production from D was because of the position itself or because he was just not what he once was?

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02-24-2012, 05:49 PM
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Agree about Goldham, I had no intention of using him on the PP. I just wanted to list all my D...but then I forgot to add Ching Johnson, another guy who does not belong on the PP. Sorry for the confusion.

Noble is definitely hard to gauge. You get the impression that the whole reason he was moved back to D was because he was getting older and starting to lose a step or two. So do you say his lack of offensive production from D was because of the position itself or because he was just not what he once was?
Heh, yeah, Ching would be useless on the PP too.

I honestly have no idea why Noble was moved to D.

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02-24-2012, 05:50 PM
  #404
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Thoughts on what type of RW I should fill out my 3rd line:

Bob Pulford - Dave Poulin - XXXXXX

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02-24-2012, 05:56 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Heh, yeah, Ching would be useless on the PP too.

I honestly have no idea why Noble was moved to D
.


Legends of Hockey says this...
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Beginning in 1927, he spent over five seasons as a defenseman with the Detroit Cougars/Falcons when Jack Adams refused to believe the rumours that Noble was washed up as a player.

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02-24-2012, 06:25 PM
  #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I honestly have no idea why Noble was moved to D.
From what I have read, it seems that players of that era were moved back to defense because they were slow.

Guys like Noble, Siebert, and Pitre were all moved back late in their careers, so I think it was because they started to lose their skating speed.

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02-24-2012, 06:29 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Thoughts on what type of RW I should fill out my 3rd line:

Bob Pulford - Dave Poulin - XXXXXX
If you want to get some offense in the counterattack, get someone who is a good passer since neither Pulford nor Poulin is a playmaker. Or you can get the best defensive player possible if you want more of a pure checking line. Obviously, you want someone at least adequate defensively considering you don't draft Pulford and Poulin as high as you did if you don't plan on giving them major minutes as checkers.

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02-24-2012, 08:16 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Thoughts on what type of RW I should fill out my 3rd line:

Bob Pulford - Dave Poulin - XXXXXX
Looks like a checking line to me. Any elite LW's on first lines in your division? If so, you might want a RW who is strong defensively first and foremost. If not you could probably use more of a two-way playmaker.

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02-24-2012, 10:49 PM
  #409
TheDevilMadeMe
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Curious to know what you guys think is the best configuration for my PP. Russell Bowie and Bruce Stuart both spent large portions of their careers at the rover positions, so either should be able to handle playing on the point with ease.

Duke Keats is the muscle in front of the net on the first unit.

Option 1:

Ted Lindsay - Duke Keats - Teemu Selanne
Russell Bowie - Brad Park

XXX-Bruce Stuart - Martin St Louis
YYY - Hod Stuart

Option 2:

Ted Lindsay - Duke Keats - Teemu Selanne
Hod Stuart - Brad Park

XXX - Russell Bowie - Martin St Louis
YYY - Bruce Stuart

XXX = Pete Mahovlich for now, but will be replaced if I draft someone better for the role
YYY = Yet to be drafted offensive defenseman

I think I prefer option 1 because it allows Russell Bowie to play 65-75% of the powerplay, as is typical for the top pair of point men. He's also a known right-handed shot next to the left-handed Park, always a bonus (Hod Stuart's handedness is unknown)

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02-24-2012, 11:02 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Curious to know what you guys think is the best configuration for my PP. Russell Bowie and Bruce Stuart both spent large portions of their careers at the rover positions, so either should be able to handle playing on the point with ease.

Duke Keats is the muscle in front of the net on the first unit.

Option 1:

Ted Lindsay - Duke Keats - Teemu Selanne
Russell Bowie - Brad Park

XXX-Bruce Stuart - Martin St Louis
YYY - Hod Stuart

Option 2:

Ted Lindsay - Duke Keats - Teemu Selanne
Hod Stuart - Brad Park

XXX - Russell Bowie - Martin St Louis
YYY - Bruce Stuart

XXX = Pete Mahovlich for now, but will be replaced if I draft someone better for the role
YYY = Yet to be drafted offensive defenseman

I think I prefer option 1 because it allows Russell Bowie to play 65-75% of the powerplay, as is typical for the top pair of point men. He's also a known right-handed shot next to the left-handed Park, always a bonus (Hod Stuart's handedness is unknown)
I would not use Bowie on the point. Asside from the fact that the rover position not like the defense position, I don't see Bowie as having the right skill set to quarterback a powerplay.

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02-24-2012, 11:08 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I would not use Bowie on the point. Asside from the fact that the rover position not like the defense position, I don't see Bowie as having the right skill set to quarterback a powerplay.
I realize rover was a more offensive position than defensive position, but they were used to lining up behind the forwards, so I don't see why a rover couldn't play point on the PP. Whether a particular rover should (the skill set) is a valid issue though.

Brad Park would be the main PP QB, obviously. Bowie would be the guy who would sneak in from the point for a back door play, or perhaps play rover on the PP like Scott Niedermayer did in Anaheim.

Are you saying you don't think his shot is hard enough to effectively be the scorer from up high?

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02-24-2012, 11:15 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I realize rover was a more offensive position than defensive position, but they were used to lining up behind the forwards, so I don't see why a rover couldn't play point on the PP. Whether he should (the skill set) is a valid issue though.
Rover is basically the same position as centre. There's really nothing about it that makes a player more able to play defense.

Quote:
Are you saying you don't think his shot is hard enough to effectively be the scorer from up high?
From what I understand, Bowie's was an excellent player in tight. Moving him out high takes that away.

Other minor issues: mediocre skating, lack of defensive ability, no evidence of a great shot.

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02-24-2012, 11:22 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Rover is basically the same position as centre. There's really nothing about it that makes a player more able to play defense.
He's not playing defense, he's playing the point on the powerplay. Rovers often functioned as the primary playmaker/puck carrier of a team, so in that way they were like centers, but they lined up on faceoffs directly behind the center, not on the forward line. A rover also was one of the main players involved in carrying the puck up ice, a role similar to an offensive defenseman.

Quote:
From what I understand, Bowie's was an excellent player in tight. Moving him out high takes that away.
Right, that is a concern. I hate taking someone with his offensive ability off the first unit, but looks like he's best off as the featured shooter of the second unit.

Quote:
Other minor issues: mediocre skating, lack of defensive ability, no evidence of a great shot.
I don't see him as someone with mediocre skating. The read I got was that he wasn't one of the fastest players of his era, but nothing to say he wasn't good. Agree that he has no known defensive ability, but this is a power play and his partner would be Brad Park. Regardless, the fact that he's best in tight means he should probably stay up front.

Hod Stuart is definitely capable of playing big minutes on the PP and looks like that's what will happen.

Thanks.

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02-25-2012, 12:02 AM
  #414
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Hod Stuart and Brad Park are a must on your first PP, definitely over Bowie.

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02-25-2012, 01:02 AM
  #415
Dreakmur
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Well, our roster is starting to take shape now. We were really hoping to land Doug Weight for the 4th line center, but it looks like we'll go another direction with a later pick. Maybe we could get some feedback before it's too late to fix any problems people see

Anyway here's how it sites right now:

Frank Foyston - Peter Forsberg - Owen Nolan
Smokey Harris - Nels Stewart - Alf Smith
Tony Leswick - Mike Peca - Johnny Peirson
Ilya Kovalchuk - __________ - __________

Nicklas Lidstrom - Larry Murphy
Harvey Puford - Teppo Numminen
__________ - __________

Martin Brodeur
__________


PP1: Forsberg-Stewart-Smith-Kovalchuk-Lidstrom
PP2: Harris-Foyston-Nolan-Kovalchuk-Murphy

PK1: Leswick-Peca-Pulford-Numminen
PK2: Peirson-_____-Lidstrom-Murphy

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02-25-2012, 01:03 AM
  #416
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^Kovalchuk at 4th line LW? That seems like a waste of a high pick.

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02-25-2012, 01:10 AM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
^Kovalchuk at 4th line LW? That seems like a waste of a high pick.
I think he fits in well on the 1st line, but a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that he will destroy any line he plays on.

If he plays on the 4th line, he can easily handle playing just about every second of our PP.

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02-25-2012, 01:26 AM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I think he fits in well on the 1st line, but a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that he will destroy any line he plays on.

If he plays on the 4th line, he can easily handle playing just about every second of our PP.
I think Forsberg and Nolan are a decent fit for him. Sure, he's a liability without the puck but there are plenty of wingers in the ATD who are.

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02-25-2012, 01:27 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I think Forsberg and Nolan are a decent fit for him. Sure, he's a liability without the puck but there are plenty of wingers in the ATD who are.
If he goes up to the 1st line, Foyston probably goes to RW, and Nolan to the 4th line.

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02-25-2012, 06:03 AM
  #420
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Any thoughts on my newly completed second and third lines?

Leclair-Lindros-Pappin, Pappin brings a defensive presence and solid scoring peak to finish off the Legion of Doom. His speed and playoff record seem to fit well even if he's more of a low-end 2nd liner.

Tremblay-Russell-Nevin, doesn't look like the grittiest third line but all three seem to be excellent defensive players capable of manning a shutdown line.

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02-25-2012, 06:37 AM
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Leclair-Lindros-Pappin, Pappin brings a defensive presence and solid scoring peak to finish off the Legion of Doom. His speed and playoff record seem to fit well even if he's more of a low-end 2nd liner.
I think Pappin is a good pick to complete the Legion of Doom line. Obviously he is a low-end 2nd liner in this, but I think the skills he brings are a good complement to Leclair and Lindros. That will be a scary line on the cycle.

The third line looks like a pretty good two-way 3rd line to me, though you need to sell me more on Blair Russell, especially as a playmaker. The wings are nice pieces of a two-way line, but both are biased goalscorers. If Russell isn't able to carry the playmaking, the line is going to have offensive problems.


Last edited by Sturminator: 02-25-2012 at 07:15 AM.
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02-25-2012, 07:29 AM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I have no idea why anyone would play Bobby Holik at LW, but he's capable of doing it. Edit: Meaning that much of his defensive ability lies in his faceoffs and ability to physically dominate the opposing center - though I guess he could physically dominate the opposing right wing in theory.

He's an excellent shut down center at even strength, especially against large centers. I can't think of a recent center I'd rather have match up against Jean Beliveau at even strength than Holik.

Just don't try to use him on the PK - he's too slow.
He will take a lot of the faceoffs, Derek Sanderson was also capable of playing left wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Who's Who in Hockey, Stan Fischler
BORN: Niagara Falls, Dntario, June 16, 1946 POSITION: Center/Left Wing, ... media coverage could be translated into talent, Derek Sanderson would have been ..
Quote:
Derek Sanderson, the brawling center who is one of the most flamboyant and ... With the Rangers, playing mostly at center and occasionally at left wing,
I don't think moving him to the wing affects his assets as much as it affects Holik, although Sanderson is good as faceoffs, he was a tenacious forechecker and can keep up with the top lines'.

I think I'll have Holik as the third line centre and have Sanderson as one of my top-flite PK centres, where faceoffs will be crucial. Does anyone like the move from centre to left wing for Sanderson?

Also should I change my defense a little bit?

Potvin (LH) - Baun (RH)
Mohns (LH) - Carlyle (LH)
_________ - Morrow (RH)

Swap Morrow in for Carlyle, and have Carlyle on the bottom pairing? Mohns is capable at being shutdown, or an offensive defenseman, so if he played with Morrow he'd be able to rush more and be more effective offensively.

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02-25-2012, 10:36 AM
  #423
seventieslord
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I personally don't like Sanderson at LW with that little to support it.

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02-25-2012, 11:06 AM
  #424
Velociraptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I personally don't like Sanderson at LW with that little to support it.
Few more quotes in his bio that I made.

Boston Globe - Feb 13, 1969

Quote:
Derek Sanderson has traded in his shin pads and skates for a cast and crutches, he could be available for the weekend but the veteran left wing will...
New York Times - Mar 31, 1975

Quote:
Then Derek Sanderson, playing left wing alongside Continued on Page 47, Column 5 The New York Times/John Soto Scouts' Gary Croteau (18) scores against ...

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02-25-2012, 11:09 AM
  #425
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I think Pappin is a good pick to complete the Legion of Doom line. Obviously he is a low-end 2nd liner in this, but I think the skills he brings are a good complement to Leclair and Lindros. That will be a scary line on the cycle.

The third line looks like a pretty good two-way 3rd line to me, though you need to sell me more on Blair Russell, especially as a playmaker. The wings are nice pieces of a two-way line, but both are biased goalscorers. If Russell isn't able to carry the playmaking, the line is going to have offensive problems.
Pappin might work from a skillset perspective, but from a talent perspective he's one of the weaker scoring line players in this. Peaked at 10th in scoring in 1973, when the league was starting to become watered down, and never came all that close to that level again

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