Syd Howe - Stan Mikita - Lanny McDonald
Al Macinnis - Andy Bathgate
Out of all of the PP's i've seen so far, I think we have at worst a top 5 unit here.
Haven't compared to others, but with pretty weak wingers, I can't say for sure if it's top 5 or not. Great pointmen and center though... Just weak wingers.
Haven't compared to others, but with pretty weak wingers, I can't say for sure if it's top 5 or not. Great pointmen and center though... Just weak wingers.
Agree. The point men are so good, it might be top 5 even with relatively weak wingers
the team he played on had so much leadership its not even funny.Robinson didn't have an A in the strong years either , tells you a lot about all of this.Robinson would have been captain on almost any other team.
I think his best seasons came during the period the NHL didn't have alternate captains
Kevin Stevens - Mario Lemieux - Sergei Makarov
Michel Goulet - Joe Thornton - Joe Mullen
Brenden Morrow - Doug Risebrough - Terry O'Reilly
Ryan Smyth - Murray Oliver - Kevin Dineen
Guy Lapointe - Marcel Pronovost
Pat Stapleton - Ted Harris
Bert Corbeau - Rob Ramage
Roy Worters
With my roster basically complete, I have two questions - captaincy, and special teams.
Who gets to wear the letters? Lemieux, Lapointe, Thornton, Morrow, Risebrough, O'Reilly, Smyth, Dineen? I'd guess Lemieux with C but the A's I'm unsure of, Risebrough and Thornton maybe?
I realize why Mario Lemieux is on the PK, but I would not make him first unit. Give him some rest with his injury history. Maybe put him on second unit to take advantage of tired PP point men.
I also don't see the point of drafting a forward as weak offensively as Risebrough if he isn't on your first PK
Mario is the obvious choice for the C.
Smythe actually has very good credentials to be an A, but that really depends on how much ice time you want to give him
Agree. The point men are so good, it might be top 5 even with relatively weak wingers
Lanny was actually a strong goalscorer on the powerplay (he had that big shot), and can play the role of crease-crasher pretty well. He's overrated as an even strength player, but he could definitely bring it on the man advantage. Howe is weak, though, yes. It's a very strong first unit.
in the absence of special teams data on pre-1953 high scoring players, wouldn't the assumption just be that they scored some points at ES and some on the PP, in a proportion similar to other top players of their day?
There is no rule against any particular allocation of icetime (how could there be?), but I question the wisdom of playing Jagr 100% of all your powerplays.
Lanny was actually a strong goalscorer on the powerplay (he had that big shot), and can play the role of crease-crasher pretty well. He's overrated as an even strength player, but he could definitely bring it on the man advantage. Howe is weak, though, yes. It's a very strong first unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho
Almost certainly the best 1st unit pointmen. But then again, when you start with MacInnis, Potvin or Orr are pretty much needed to beat it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
Agree. The point men are so good, it might be top 5 even with relatively weak wingers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur
Haven't compared to others, but with pretty weak wingers, I can't say for sure if it's top 5 or not. Great pointmen and center though... Just weak wingers.
McDonald is a very underated crease guy who as Sturm already mentioned has a great shot as well.
I like Howe there not only because of his well rounded offensive game, but his defensive presence allows for Bathgate and MacInnis to take higher risk chances during the PP.
I know people may not agree with me on this, but with Bathgate and Mikita handling the puck and MacInnis on the point and Lanny in front I wanted to have a defensive minded 5th member to give the other 4 more freedom. There is only 1 puck to go around.
Last edited by markrander87: 03-05-2012 at 05:48 PM.
McDonald is a very underated crease guy who as Sturm already mentioned has a great shot as well.
I like Howe there not only because of his well rounded offensive game, but his defensive presence allows for Bathgate and MacInnis to take higher risk chances during the PP.
I know people may not agree with me on this, but with Bathgate and Mikita handling the puck and MacInnis on the point and Lanny in front I wanted to have a defensive minded 5th member to give the other 4 more freedom. There is only 1 puck to go around.
I'm not sure how Howe's defensive presence will allow for more freedom for the other 4. My perception of your PP is that Mikita will be dishing from the half boards/behind the net, McDonald will be in front, Howe will be digging for pucks, Bathgate will be passing from the point, and MacInnis will be blasting away from the point. I don't see how Howe's defensive abilities are of use here, if he's down low it doesn't matter how good defensively he is if somebody picks off a pass and goes flying the other way, he's not going to catch them. Even if you try to sell it as he'll rotate to the top for the pointmen if they pinch, that's what pretty much any forward will do.
i have started looking at HSP to see if shots were overcounted in toronto during bower's career, but i got a different number of shots against for '59 than hockeydb.
i got about 22 more than hockeydb for '59, and the extra shots seem to be basically evenly divided between bower and chadwick.
TML allowed more shots on the road than at home. they were below .500 in '59, though, so it is not surprising. i have not yet begun to look at '60s.
hockey-reference and hockeydb conflict on bower's GA and GAA for '59. i counted from HSP the same number as hockey-reference (106). hockeydb and HSP also conflict on EN goals.
since hockeydb and HSP have different numbers, i will probably need to calculate GA and sv% based on HSP, instead of relying on GA and sv% from hockeydb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator
There is no rule against any particular allocation of icetime (how could there be?), but I question the wisdom of playing Jagr 100% of all your powerplays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe
You can indicate ice time that you want Jagr to stay out into the second PP shift, but I think only point men can really play the full PP.
i don't think it would be a problem for jagr to play both, since he regularly played heavy minutes, and PP is less difficult than ES, but i will just split the difference and have him take an extended shift, but not full 2nd PP.
Do we think I should move Lynn Patrick up to my 2nd PP unit? Him being a pre-war guy, I don't thbink we have PP numbers for him, but I would imagine his game would translate pretty well there, being that there would be extra space on the ice. My Second unit would look like: Patrick-Tkachuk-Roenick-Harmon-Gerard.
Speaking of this do we think Eddie Gerard can play second unit PP? I imagine he probably could have being that he was intially a LW, but to be honest that would probably be a pretty broad generalization.
Hmm, I prefer Igorès playmaking for the #1 unit, but youère right he is also a fit on my 2nd. Thanks for the input.
Jackson is probably the best playmaking winger of the group, and Larianov the best playmaker overall. So, having the best playmaking center with the most goal-biassed wingers just makes sense to me. And Schmidt is hardly a slouch as a passer.
I'm not sure how Howe's defensive presence will allow for more freedom for the other 4. My perception of your PP is that Mikita will be dishing from the half boards/behind the net, McDonald will be in front, Howe will be digging for pucks, Bathgate will be passing from the point, and MacInnis will be blasting away from the point. I don't see how Howe's defensive abilities are of use here, if he's down low it doesn't matter how good defensively he is if somebody picks off a pass and goes flying the other way, he's not going to catch them. Even if you try to sell it as he'll rotate to the top for the pointmen if they pinch, that's what pretty much any forward will do.
I pretty much 100% agree with the bolded, and 100% disagree with the none bolded.
When we have possession of the puck Howe will not just sit around in the corners, he's obviously going to get in a scoring position.
Yes a lot not every forward will cycle up to cover for a pinching defenseman, but Howe has several quotes referring to him playing large minutes on the point as well. So if a pass is picked off or what have you and a 2-2 or 2-1 etc.. developed i'd much rather have Syd Howe back there oppossed to any other forward who does not have the defensive awareness and experience that Howe has.
Bill Cook is the obvious choice for Captain. Any comments on who the A's should be? Notable candidates are Ching Johnson, Art Ross, Reg Noble, and Howie Morenz. Full roster below...
(General lineup comments always welcome too)
Reg Noble - Howie Morenz - Vladimir Martinec
George Hay - Frank Fredrickson - Bill Cook
Marty Pavelich - Ken Mosdell - John "Pie" McKenzie
Tommy Smith - Doug Weight - Bruce MacGregor
Bill Quackenbush - Ching Johnson
Art Ross - Bob Goldham
Brian Engblom - Ted Green
