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Sharks' Variable Ticket Pricing

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Old
09-20-2011, 03:39 PM
  #1
kdb209
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Sharks' Variable Ticket Pricing

Since the Sharks are introducing variable ticket pricing - I thought it could be useful to have a thread to discuss the policy and maybe post some data points about pricing so we can figure out just how the policy is working.

From DP's blog last week:
Quote:
Leaving the rink for a quick look at the business side of things . . .

Individual game tickets go on sale at 10 a.m. tomorrow and Sharks fans may be surprised to learn that things have changed. Like the San Francisco Giants and a host of other pro sports teams, the Sharks no longer put the same price tag on the same seat for every game.

The visiting jersey and day of the week now come into play. And if ticket sales are exceptionally brisk or sluggish, the price could change as the game gets closer.

For now, as an example, the price range to see the Los Angeles Kings play on Nov. 7 is $35 to $225. That increases to $50 to $265 to see the Detroit Red Wings on Nov. 17.

The team has made no formal announcement of the change and that upsets at least one fan maybe even more than the new system.

...

“We’re not one of the first teams to jump on the boat. It comes down to supply and demand,” said Sharks spokesman Scott Emmert, who noted the new system applies to only a couple hundred tickets per game.

The system, Emmert added, is also designed to make season-ticket packages more attractive as those seats are not subject to variable pricing.
So, if you bought individual game tix (or just poked around on the Sharks TicketBastard site to look for availability) feel free to post:
- game date/opponent
- seat location or general pricing area (see seating map below)
- price (excluding ticket fees)
- date purchased (prices may change over time)



This now removed seating chart has the STH & "Baseline" Single Game Prices [thanks rgb63]


Last edited by kdb209: 09-24-2011 at 10:39 PM.
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Old
09-20-2011, 03:39 PM
  #2
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Day Game Date Opponent VIP Glass Side Club Premium Glass End Club Premium Lower Lower Reserved Upper Rim Side Upper End Upper Side Upper (row 13+) End Upper (row 13+) Date Bought Comments
STH $172 $122 $118 $112 $90 $75 $85 $53 $42 $35 $23 STH Prices
SGP $205 $139 $135 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 "Baseline" Single Game Prices
 
Fri Sep 23 Ducks $205 $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 9/23 Pre-Season
Sat Sep 24 Coyotes $205 $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 9/24 Pre-Season
Thu Sep 29 Canucks $205 $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 9/24 Pre-Season
   
Sat Oct 8 Coyotes $180 $165 9/24 Opening Night - 3 tickets available
Sat Oct 8 Coyotes $266 ` $53 10/6 Opening Night - 3 VIP Glass + 1 upper single
Sat Oct 15 Blues $220 $147 $137 $112 $95 $106 $69 $56 $33 9/24, 10/6 $33 uppers now avail (10/6)
Mon Oct 17 Ducks $205 $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 9/24, 10/6  
   
Thu Nov 3 Penguins $165 $135 $115 $128 $89 $79 9/24 only singles remaining
Sat Nov 5 Predators $153 $142 $114 $97 $108 $72 $61 9/24
Mon Nov 7 Kings $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 9/24  
Thu Nov 10 Wild $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 9/24  
Sat Nov 12 Coyotes $153 $142 $114 $97 $108 $72 $61 $54 9/24
Thu Nov 17 Red Wings $63 9/12
Thu Nov 17 Red Wings $167 $155 $125 $106 $118 $82 $71 9/23
Wed Nov 23 Blackhawks  
Sat Nov 26 Canucks  
   
Thu Dec 1 Canadiens  
Sat Dec 3 Panthers  
Tue Dec 6 Wild  
Thu Dec 8 Stars  
Thu Dec 15 Avalanche  
Sat Dec 17 Oilers  
Wed Dec 21 Lightning  
Fri Dec 23 Kings  
Mon Dec 26 Ducks  
Wed Dec 28 Canucks  
   
Thu Jan 5 Blue Jackets  
Sat Jan 7 Capitals  
Tue Jan 17 Flames  
Thu Jan 19 Senators  
Tue Jan 31 Blue Jackets  
   
Thu Feb 2 Stars  
Wed Feb 8 Flames  
Fri Feb 10 Blackhawks  
Tue Feb 28 Flyers  
   
Thu Mar 1 Sabres  
Sat Mar 3 Blues  
Tue Mar 6 Oilers  
Thu Mar 15 Predators  
Sat Mar 17 Red Wings  
Mon Mar 19 Ducks  
Thu Mar 22 Bruins  
Sat Mar 24 Coyotes  
Mon Mar 26 Avalanche  
Sat Mar 31 Stars  
   
Sat Apr 7 Kings  

TicketBastard Per Ticket Service Fees:
Ticket Price Range Service Fee
$220 $205 $15.50
$180 $15
$167 $165 $153 $14.50
$147 $139 $ 137 $135 $129 $128 $125 $14
$118 $115 $114 $112 $108 $106 $104 $13
$98 $97 $95 $88 $82 $72 $71 $11.75
$69 $11.25
$61 $56 $10.75
$63 $51 $10.25
$43 $9.25
$28 $8


Last edited by kdb209: 10-06-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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09-20-2011, 03:44 PM
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This is what they are doing for group tickets


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09-20-2011, 05:13 PM
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This will be interesting to follow. Maybe we can pretend to buy tickets to each game to see what they are going for at a given time.

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09-22-2011, 04:47 PM
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the dynamic ticket pricing/scalping debate (moved from the ticket exchange thread)

Dynamic pricing is legalized scalping, it's a joke.

It's no way to show loyalty to your fans, but it's good for business. I guess at the end of the day, that's all that matters to the front office.

A family of 4 or 5 making a modest earning is probably priced out of going to a game these days. It's pretty sad.

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09-22-2011, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Mallard View Post
Dynamic pricing is legalized scalping, it's a joke.

It's no way to show loyalty to your fans, but it's good for business. I guess at the end of the day, that's all that matters to the front office.

A family of 4 or 5 making a modest earning is probably priced out of going to a game these days. It's pretty sad.
while I don't agree with dynamic pricing on principle, it is not "legalized scalping" since the Sharks are the original seller of the tickets. Scalping is (in this instance) reselling tickets you purchased at a price that allows you to make a profit from them.

the Sharks are allowed to sell their tickets at whatever price the market will bare since the tickets are for their own product. Fair or not, that's economics, not scalping.

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09-22-2011, 06:08 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
while I don't agree with dynamic pricing on principle, it is not "legalized scalping" since the Sharks are the original seller of the tickets. Scalping is (in this instance) reselling tickets you purchased at a price that allows you to make a profit from them.

the Sharks are allowed to sell their tickets at whatever price the market will bare since the tickets are for their own product. Fair or not, that's economics, not scalping.

.
There is no distinction between scalping and economics. Scalping is based on economic principles.

They are the original sellers of the ticket but they also have already determined the fair value of the ticket when they create a season ticket holder price. Now they have always charged slightly more for individual tickets (at a small enough discount that is essentially the same as a costco type discount on products for buying in bulk since season ticket holders are buying 44 games) but this season they are purposely skyrocketing the pricing against games with high demand. That is no different than a scalper realizing that in a game against a rival or a top team people are more willing to pay a higher premium for tickets.

What they have done is to try and eliminate scalpers because scalpers will now have to charge an even higher amount for the games as the original purchaser has already paid more. All it ends up doing is screwing over the consumer who is looking to attend a single game, perhaps because it is all they could afford, or anything less than the 10 game Sharkpak which is the smallest partial season ticket the Sharks offer.

That really is no different than scalping, they are selling tickets that they have already determined a value for(season tickets), at an outrageous skyrocketed price.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is not well within the Sharks rights to charge whatever they want, but all they are really doing is alienating the fans who can't afford season tickets, or pricing out the casual and/or new fan who is trying to get into the sport.

It doesn't really matter what I think when it comes to what is allowed on HF as I have no power but for the record I agree with your decision that tickets can be sold for whatever the Sharks and ticketmaster are charging for similar individual tickets if you were to go online and buy them.


Last edited by Chairman Mallard: 09-22-2011 at 06:16 PM.
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09-23-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Mallard View Post
There is no distinction between scalping and economics. Scalping is based on economic principles.

They are the original sellers of the ticket but they also have already determined the fair value of the ticket when they create a season ticket holder price. Now they have always charged slightly more for individual tickets (at a small enough discount that is essentially the same as a costco type discount on products for buying in bulk since season ticket holders are buying 44 games) but this season they are purposely skyrocketing the pricing against games with high demand. That is no different than a scalper realizing that in a game against a rival or a top team people are more willing to pay a higher premium for tickets.

What they have done is to try and eliminate scalpers because scalpers will now have to charge an even higher amount for the games as the original purchaser has already paid more. All it ends up doing is screwing over the consumer who is looking to attend a single game, perhaps because it is all they could afford, or anything less than the 10 game Sharkpak which is the smallest partial season ticket the Sharks offer.

That really is no different than scalping, they are selling tickets that they have already determined a value for(season tickets), at an outrageous skyrocketed price.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is not well within the Sharks rights to charge whatever they want, but all they are really doing is alienating the fans who can't afford season tickets, or pricing out the casual and/or new fan who is trying to get into the sport.

It doesn't really matter what I think when it comes to what is allowed on HF as I have no power but for the record I agree with your decision that tickets can be sold for whatever the Sharks and ticketmaster are charging for similar individual tickets if you were to go online and buy them.
It's not scalping and they're nothing immoral about it. The flaw in your logic is your assumption in bold above. Nobody determined the value of the all game tickets as being equal. It was simply a policy that everyone used for decades for simplicity sake. We all know the value of certain games (Detroit) are a lot higher than others (Phoenix). All they are doing is correcting a long overdue mistake of assuming all games are of equal value.

And the whole family of 4 can't afford it argument is bogus. You could say that about 75% of the goods and services sold in our country. There is no right to attend a hockey game, just like there is no right to any other goods or services. Should I lament that they can't afford a new Mercedes? The market determines the value/price point. If anything, dynamic pricing should result is lower pricing of some games, thereby opening up hockey as an entertainment option to some consumers that wouldn't otherwise go.

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09-23-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
It's not scalping and they're nothing immoral about it. The flaw in your logic is your assumption in bold above. Nobody determined the value of the all game tickets as being equal. It was simply a policy that everyone used for decades for simplicity sake. We all know the value of certain games (Detroit) are a lot higher than others (Phoenix). All they are doing is correcting a long overdue mistake of assuming all games are of equal value.

And the whole family of 4 can't afford it argument is bogus. You could say that about 75% of the goods and services sold in our country. There is no right to attend a hockey game, just like there is no right to any other goods or services. Should I lament that they can't afford a new Mercedes? The market determines the value/price point. If anything, dynamic pricing should result is lower pricing of some games, thereby opening up hockey as an entertainment option to some consumers that wouldn't otherwise go.
That's all scalpers do as well. They are correcting the same mistake by reselling tickets that have a higher demand than others for an extra profit, so why should they be considered evil when dynamic pricing is essentially doing the same thing. The difference is when professional teams do it it's considered smart business and when a scalper does it he/she is an *******. I never claimed it was "immoral" to do what they are doing, but they are both using the same basic principles of supply and demand to set prices for the market.

You are right about there being no right to attend a hockey game, but unlike Mercedes, part of the Sharks long term success is based on growing the fanbase. Most people that try to get into hockey have trouble learning the game from television, and I've often heard from new fans that once they have been able to attend a game live that was when they were hooked on the sport. Mercedes has a much smaller potential target market than the Sharks do, and they specifically target that niche. The Sharks have the ability to target a much larger target market.


Last edited by Chairman Mallard: 09-23-2011 at 10:49 AM.
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09-23-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Mallard View Post
That's all scalpers do as well. They are correcting the same mistake by reselling tickets that have a higher demand than others for an extra profit, so why should they be considered evil when dynamic pricing is essentially doing the same thing. The difference is when professional teams do it it's considered smart business and when a scalper does it he/she is an *******. I never claimed it was "immoral" to do what they are doing, but they are both using the same basic principles of supply and demand to set prices for the market.

You are right about there being no right to attend a hockey game, but unlike Mercedes, part of the Sharks long term success is based on growing the fanbase. Most people that try to get into hockey have trouble learning the game from television, and I've often heard from new fans that once they have been able to attend a game live that was when they were hooked on the sport. Mercedes has a much smaller potential target market than the Sharks do, and they specifically target that niche. The Sharks have the ability to target a much larger target market.
And there's nothing wrong with either of them. However, due to the different State laws, I can see why this board doesn't want scalping going on on here.

And the Sharks don't need to do anything more to grow their fan base. They sell out almost every game and have for years, their merchandise sells very well, and grass roots hockey here in the Bay Area is exploding right now. Dropping ticket prices right now would be a moronic business move for them.

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09-23-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Mallard View Post
There is no distinction between scalping and economics. Scalping is based on economic principles.

They are the original sellers of the ticket but they also have already determined the fair value of the ticket when they create a season ticket holder price. Now they have always charged slightly more for individual tickets (at a small enough discount that is essentially the same as a costco type discount on products for buying in bulk since season ticket holders are buying 44 games) but this season they are purposely skyrocketing the pricing against games with high demand. That is no different than a scalper realizing that in a game against a rival or a top team people are more willing to pay a higher premium for tickets.

What they have done is to try and eliminate scalpers because scalpers will now have to charge an even higher amount for the games as the original purchaser has already paid more. All it ends up doing is screwing over the consumer who is looking to attend a single game, perhaps because it is all they could afford, or anything less than the 10 game Sharkpak which is the smallest partial season ticket the Sharks offer.

That really is no different than scalping, they are selling tickets that they have already determined a value for(season tickets), at an outrageous skyrocketed price.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is not well within the Sharks rights to charge whatever they want, but all they are really doing is alienating the fans who can't afford season tickets, or pricing out the casual and/or new fan who is trying to get into the sport.

It doesn't really matter what I think when it comes to what is allowed on HF as I have no power but for the record I agree with your decision that tickets can be sold for whatever the Sharks and ticketmaster are charging for similar individual tickets if you were to go online and buy them.
The Nemesis is right on this issue. Fair or not is not the same as economics vs. scalping. Scalping is RESELLING tickets for a higher price than purchased for. The Sharks could make the price for every game more expensive and average the price difference out, wouldn't that make it more difficult for a family to go to any game rather than just excluding them from the high demand games? If people are willing to pay the price for the tickets that the Sharks set then they are doing what they are supposed to do, maximize profit. Whether or not all of this stuff is fair or not can be discussed on the political section of the boards.

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09-23-2011, 01:09 PM
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I pulled this stuff out of the ticket exchange thread because, as I said, it doesn't fit into the purpose of that thread. So now it can continue if people want it to.

and CM, you are still operating on faulty assumptions and definitions.

Scalping is generally defined either by a) the fact that it is done on a resale basis by people buying the tickets from official channels (eg the box office/ticketmaster/stubhub/etc) or b) the the illegality of such actions.

immoral or not, unethical or not, there's nothing illegal about the Sharks deciding to charge more for certain games any more than it's illegal for them to increase overall prices between seasons. And the team is not reselling tickets since they are the originator of the good/service itself. People that provide the good or service are allowed to set whatever price they want as long as it is legal and they believe the market will bear that price. In this case they satisfy both of those conditions.

therefore it is not in any way, shape, or form scalping. If you want to argue that it's more in line with price gouging (an act that they will have in common with scalpers for high demand events) then yeah, that's defensible (though it is largely a subjective argument).

But at the same time, Stickmata is making a good point. Not all Sharks games are of equal value. There is higher demand for season opener and finale tickets. And there will be higher demand for tickets featuring popular opponents who have limited opportunities to be seen in San Jose. And with that higher demand they can charge a premium for those tickets.

Of course, the reverse should be true as well (that lower demand games that people are less interested in should be sold at a lower price. Except that even at standard price levels those games still sell out or come close to selling out , indicating that there's still more than enough demand at the standard price to justify not having a discount.

The issue you have with ticket prices is one of ethics and morality more than one of economics. And that's a whole other debate.

and to your argument that they had already set the value of the tickets and now they are increasing it, that happens all the time. With everything. inflation causes that. demand changes cause that. lots of things cause that. A bottle of coke cost a nickel in 1950. Based solely on inflation, that same bottle of coke should cost $0.45 now. But it doesn't. depending on where you get it form (vending machine, convenience store, grocery store, cafeteria, etc) it will be anywhere from $1.00 to $2.00. But people will pay that. So are you going to complain that the soft drink companies are "legally scalping" their product because they're charging unfair prices?

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09-23-2011, 01:44 PM
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You know what's funny, I just realized after reading this debate that Stanford football has always had dynamic pricing (I imagine it's the same at Cal, and maybe most colleges). Big Game has always cost way more than every other game. It's never bothered me in the past when they've done that, so I guess I shouldn't be bothered by the Sharks doing it. Also, you could assume (or hope) that the reverse sometimes happens, and unpopular games get cheaper than average, making it more affordable to see a Sharks game, just not the Sharks game all the Wings fans want to go to.

The only real issue I have with it is they handled telling people this was happening so poorly. It's like Netflix...

edit: It also appears the Sharks do sell something for smaller than 10-games, as there are four game packs listed on the website.

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09-23-2011, 01:53 PM
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I dont like it, but I get it.

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09-23-2011, 01:55 PM
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Cal has dynamic ticket pricing as well.

I don't really have an issue the Sharks using dynamic ticket pricing, but I do have an issue with their starting price points. Lots of the sth's I've come across aren't even fans.. they're just well off silicon valley residents who buy them because they like to go to a few games a year and be able to say they are sth's. The rest of the time they're re-selling the tickets for insane markups. This gives the Sharks organization a warped sense of what the majority of fans can and will pay.

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09-23-2011, 01:57 PM
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Except for the fact that they are not just charging extra for a Wings game. They are charging based on current demand and actually changing prices on the fly. That is in line with Scalpers IMO.

Every right to do it. Very poor optics.

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09-23-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
Cal has dynamic ticket pricing as well.

I don't really have an issue the Sharks using dynamic ticket pricing, but I do have an issue with their starting price points. Lots of the sth's I've come across aren't even fans.. they're just well off silicon valley residents who buy them because they like to go to a few games a year and be able to say they are sth's. The rest of the time they're re-selling the tickets for insane markups. This gives the Sharks organization a warped sense of what the majority of fans can and will pay.
On the other side of the coin, without those wealthy folks ponying up for STs or the corporations paying $150k a year for the luxury boxes, there wouldn't even be a San Jose Sharks hockey team...

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09-23-2011, 02:01 PM
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On the other side of the coin, without those wealthy folks ponying up for STs or the corporations paying $150k a year for the luxury boxes, there wouldn't even be a San Jose Sharks hockey team...
Only because they exist with all teams. They get what they get because the economy can support it. Hockey teams could charge a lot less if they paid the players less. It's hockey's popularity that has driven prices up. Not rich people who can afford luxury boxes. That's an absurd argument.

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09-23-2011, 02:05 PM
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Only because they exist with all teams. They get what they get because the economy can support it. Hockey teams could charge a lot less if they paid the players less. It's hockey's popularity that has driven prices up. Not rich people who can afford luxury boxes. That's an absurd argument.
Yeah, and we'd all drive Ferrari's if they just didn't pay the designers so much, or the engine builders so much, or the coachwork people so much, or the leather tanners so much, or the farmers so much. ******** argument.

You would never have hockey at the level we all enjoy it now in the States without the rich fans and the corporate money. You'd have ****** buildings, ****** tv contracts, lower skilled players, etc. You'd have hockey, but it would be nothing like the experience it is now and people would just ***** about that instead.

Hockey tickets have always been hard to get and expensive. I can remember waiting in line for hours to pay too much for ****** seats to ****** games at Nassau Coliseum back in the 70s because wealthy people had all the STs. No different than now.

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09-23-2011, 02:06 PM
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Yeah, and we'd all drive Ferrari's if they just didn't pay the designers so much, or the engine builders so much, or the coachwork people so much, or the leather tanners so much, or the farmers so much. ******** argument.

You would never have hockey at the level we all enjoy it now in the States without the rich fans and the corporate money. You'd have ****** buildings, ****** tv contracts, lower skilled players, etc. You'd have hockey, but it would be nothing like the experience it is now and people would just ***** about that instead.
Oh praise the rich for they are our overlords and we could not enjoy hockey without them

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09-23-2011, 02:22 PM
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Poking around the Sharks TicketMaster site - you can see every available seat and scroll over for price + fees.

Prices for today's Pre-Season opener:

Day Game Date Opponent VIP Glass Side Club Premium Glass End Club Premium Lower Lower Reserved Upper Rim Side Upper End Upper Side Upper (row 13+) End Upper (row 13+) Date Bought Comments
STH $172 $122 $118 $112 $90 $75 $85 $53 $42 $35 $23 STH Prices
SGP $205 $139 $135 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 "Baseline" Single Game Prices
 
Fri Sep 23 Ducks $205 $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 9/25 Pre-Season

Interesting to note the high markup on the Upper Rim (only two singles avail) and the low markup on Lower Reserved.

Nevermind - I had the Upper Rim & Lower Reserved STH prices reversed.


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09-23-2011, 02:26 PM
  #22
Led Zappa
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Hell, my ST seats are marked up almost 33%

EDIT: Looking again maybe not. Those look to be the 1rst row of uppers. But my price point for lowers are not on the chart. I was gonna be shocked if that were true for Preseason.

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09-23-2011, 02:34 PM
  #23
Markus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Poking around the Sharks TicketMaster site - you can see every available seat and scroll over for price + fees.

Prices for today's Pre-Season opener:

[snip]

Interesting to note the high markup on the Upper Rim (only two singles avail) and the low markup on Lower Reserved.
Your table adjusted with the "baseline" Single Game Prices. Also, you swapped the Upper Rim and Lower Reserved Prices.

Day Game Date Opponent VIP Glass Side Club Premium Glass End Club Premium Lower Lower Reserved Upper Rim Side Upper End Upper Side Upper (row 13+) End Upper (row 13+) Date Bought Comments
STH $172 $122 $118 $112 $90 $75 $85 $53 $42 $35 $23 STH Prices
SGP $205 $139 $135 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 Single Game Prices
Fri Sep 23 Ducks $205 $139 $129 $104 $88 $98 $63 $51 $43 $28 9/25 Pre-Season

(I actually didn't check to see if the prices matched the "dynamic" prices when I typed that out)

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09-23-2011, 02:36 PM
  #24
kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Hell, my ST seats are marked up almost 33%

EDIT: Looking again maybe not. Those look to be the 1rst row of uppers. But my price point for lowers are not on the chart. I was gonna be shocked if that were true for Preseason.
Where are your seats?

Here are all of the STH price points listed by the Sharks site:



VIP Glass $172 $7,568
Sideline Club $122 $5,368
Premium Glass $118 $5,192
End/Corner Club $112 $4,928
Premium Lower $90 $3,960
Upper Rim $85 $3,740
Lower Reserved $75 $3,300
Sideline Upper (rows 2-12) $53 $2,332
Goalie View Upper (rows 2-12) $42 $1,848
Sideline Upper (rows 13+) $35 $1,540
Goalie View Upper (rows 13+) $23 $1,012

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Old
09-23-2011, 02:37 PM
  #25
CJL182
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I bought a pair of Sideline Upper (13+) tix for the 11/17 game against Detroit. They were $63 per when I got them on 9/12. Throw in the damn Ticketmaster fees and my season seats, which are a bit better, seem like a steal lol.

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