It's not really a third line when what was your first line is playing like garbage.
I'm pretty sure he'd be sticking in the top 2 lines on any team that values offensive explosion over carrying the puck past the blueline and lobbing a soft one on net.
Well next year, I don't see how they won't stick with Cole-DD-MaxPac. Then you still have to consider Pleks as a top 6 forward obviously. With Bourque alongside him....but what about Gionta? Who is the top 4 in wingers between Cole, MaxPac, Bourque, Gionta and AKost? Hey I have no problem putting Gionta on the 3rd....not sure they'd want to bury ANOTHER high salary in a bottom 6 role. And all that without any trades that could see us landing a top 6 forward...I know, I'm dreaming. Unless Bourque becomes the next Moen and plays on the 3rd. Personnaly, playerwise, I'd have a Bourque-Pleks-AKost line. But that's just me. And Gionta, well plays on the 3rd with Eller.
A guy who scores 25 goals will have no goals in at least 57 out of 82 games, and probably more because he'll have 2-goal games and the occasional hat trick.
The problem is that guys like AKost are judged exclusively on scoring, and are deemed useless if they're not getting goals. There's more to hockey than that.
AK made 3.25 4 years ago with the cap a fraction of what it is now. Expecting less after the cap has gone up is blind optimism. Expect up to 4.25 in terms of value, but with discont, maybe 3.75.
Weber sucks, just like O'byrne sucked. He doesn't even belong in a convo with the others, plus I don't even see what the point is in bringing them up, Weber wasn't even traded for Kaberle and had trouble cracking the lineup even before Kaberle was brought in.
Three years in a row he can't crack a spot in the lineup and it's not because he hasn't been given a chance. He has zero poise and his decision making is below average.
He had his fair share of time at the begining of the year when Spacek and Campoli were injured and Emelin couldn't crack the lineup. He had even more time when Gill missed games on top of all that. Outside 4-5 games Weber has been below average to downright terrible. I have no faith in him at all and I am pretty confident that we see is what we get with Weber.
I disagree entirely with your assesment on Weber. He has shown little.
just because you use vast exaggerations doesn't make it any more true.
if you expected Weber, at 23, to be a top-4 caliber dman reliable in all situations, then sure, he "sucks and is downright terrible"... but that's more a problem of your expectations than it is of the players ability/performance.
despite being bounced around and wasting development time practicing/playing at forward, he's still managed to contribute very well for a 23 yr/old offensive dman.
does he have holes in his game... Obviously... but much like the other players i listed above, I'm quite confident that once he does get the right kind of support/opportunity, and once he has a bit of time to learn how to use his more than obvious skill/hockey sense more effectively at the NHL level, he will be a very effective top-4 player.
saying he sucks b/c you expect him to be something that very few young defenseman can be, is just silly.
Presumably you don't think that Diaz "sucks" as much?
Weber's already a better offensive contributor (ppg), do you really think that in 3 years and with 160 more professional hockey games, Weber won't improve a bit in his defensive zone play?
what then? if it were up to observers like you, will be watching him excel for some other team b/c right now you couldn't see/understand both his ability level and the areas in his game that are bound to improve with time/experience.
but no, any young player who isn't excelling sucks, right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta
Anyway, we have Diaz already. He's a better Weber.
3 years older (2yrs/9months), 160 more games of professional experience...
Moen is better than Leblanc right now, guess we should give up on him too.
Last edited by Habsfan18: 01-31-2012 at 12:22 PM.
Reason: merge
AK made 3.25 4 years ago with the cap a fraction of what it is now. Expecting less after the cap has gone up is blind optimism. Expect up to 4.25 in terms of value, but with discont, maybe 3.75.
Michael Ryder signed for $3.5 million per with Dallas just after winning the cup, and back to back 18 goal seasons. If AK, who is a better overall player imo, wants to sign for somewhere in that ballpark, and play 2nd/3rd line minutes it will only help the Habs' scoring depth.
Well next year, I don't see how they won't stick with Cole-DD-MaxPac. Then you still have to consider Pleks as a top 6 forward obviously. With Bourque alongside him....but what about Gionta? Who is the top 4 in wingers between Cole, MaxPac, Bourque, Gionta and AKost? Hey I have no problem putting Gionta on the 3rd....not sure they'd want to bury ANOTHER high salary in a bottom 6 role. And all that without any trades that could see us landing a top 6 forward...I know, I'm dreaming. Unless Bourque becomes the next Moen and plays on the 3rd. Personnaly, playerwise, I'd have a Bourque-Pleks-AKost line. But that's just me. And Gionta, well plays on the 3rd with Eller.
I would give that line a try but I think Gionta has to go play 3rd or 1st line someplace else. Not in Montreal.
if you expected Weber, at 23, to be a top-4 caliber dman reliable in all situations, then sure, he "sucks and is downright terrible"... but that's more a problem of your expectations than it is of the players ability/performance.
I had very little expectations of Weber to begin with. I did not like his game last year either. He has done little to impress and little to show that there any signs of progression in his game. He isn't ready and by your comments of "can you expect him at 23 to jump into x position" it looks like you agree as well. So again, I disagree with the "hockey man" who asked why they went after Kaberle when we have Weber. It's simple, Weber isn't playing good, and isn't ready( I don't think he well ever be) and lost his spot even before Kaberle was acquired.
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despite being bounced around and wasting development time practicing/playing at forward, he's still managed to contribute very well for a 23 yr/old offensive dman.
He's being bounced around because he can't beat out anyone else for a roster spot. He just simple isn't good enough. Sure he's contributing offensively, but he's got to do more than that, which explains why his coaches are reluctant to use him defensively.
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does he have holes in his game... Obviously... but much like the other players i listed above, I'm quite confident that once he does get the right kind of support/opportunity, and once he has a bit of time to learn how to use his more than obvious skill/hockey sense more effectively at the NHL level, he will be a very effective top-4 player.
I disagree. I see Weber exactly like O'byrne, the type of player everyone will be waiting to perform consistently, only to actually fustrate you every game he does play in. I have the same opinion of Weber as I do O'byrne.
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saying he sucks b/c you expect him to be something that very few young defenseman can be, is just silly.
I say he sucks because he can't even crack one of the 6 spots on D on a team that doesn't have a strong defensive core to begin with. I never expected him to be a top 4 d-man. I expected him to be a bottom 2 d-man who can play on the PP and he has struggled doing that consistently this season. I just don't think he has the poise to play at this level, is decision making is slow and often quite poor.
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Presumably you don't think that Diaz "sucks" as much?
Not at all. I've been defending Diaz here since game one where everyone thought Emelin deserved to play over him. Diaz has been by far one of the most consistent and reliable defensemen this year.
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Weber's already a better offensive contributor (ppg), do you really think that in 3 years and with 160 more professional hockey games, Weber won't improve a bit in his defensive zone play?
Who knows if he would, the point right now is that he is not ready and hasn't deserved much of a role. So again, I think the "why get Kaberle when you have Weber" issue is a non-issue considering how little Weber has contributed. Despite Kaberle's supposed terrible defensive game, he's still much better at Weber in both offensive and defensive parts of the game.
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what then? if it were up to observers like you, will be watching him excel for some other team b/c right now you couldn't see/understand both his ability level and the areas in his game that are bound to improve with time/experience.
but no, any young player who isn't excelling sucks, right
By that logic we should expect Blunden to develop into a top 6 powerforward right? Since he's still young and has little nhl experience. Sometimes you just don't develop and Weber has shown very little in the defensive side of the game. In fact I don't think he has progressed at all.
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3 years older (2yrs/9months), 160 more games of professional experience...
Moen is better than Leblanc right now, guess we should give up on him too.
That is not the same scenario at all and a terrible analogy. Leblanc has shown a lot of promise. Weber has shown that he stagnating.
Well next year, I don't see how they won't stick with Cole-DD-MaxPac. Then you still have to consider Pleks as a top 6 forward obviously. With Bourque alongside him....but what about Gionta? Who is the top 4 in wingers between Cole, MaxPac, Bourque, Gionta and AKost? Hey I have no problem putting Gionta on the 3rd....not sure they'd want to bury ANOTHER high salary in a bottom 6 role. And all that without any trades that could see us landing a top 6 forward...I know, I'm dreaming. Unless Bourque becomes the next Moen and plays on the 3rd. Personnaly, playerwise, I'd have a Bourque-Pleks-AKost line. But that's just me. And Gionta, well plays on the 3rd with Eller.
Let gionta go, don't need a nipper on the third line , shop for a man with a big body that can hit , score 15 goals and take half the pay some off our flies get paid.
Let gionta go, don't need a nipper on the third line , shop for a man with a big body that can hit , score 15 goals and take half the pay some off our flies get paid.
trade Gionta-(I dont j know if anyone would take him at 5 mill a season)
I had very little expectations of Weber to begin with. I did not like his game last year either. He has done little to impress and little to show that there any signs of progression in his game. He isn't ready and by your comments of "can you expect him at 23 to jump into x position" it looks like you agree as well. So again, I disagree with the "hockey man" who asked why they went after Kaberle when we have Weber. It's simple, Weber isn't playing good, and isn't ready( I don't think he well ever be) and lost his spot even before Kaberle was acquired.
that hockey man, like some hockey people around the league, might be suggesting that playing Weber now, accepting that there will be some growing pains, would have been a smarter move for the club long term even if in the short term it hurt some.
given Kaberle's contract for 2 more years, and the fact that he was coming in as a guy being scratched by one of the worst teams in the league, and the fact that since he's been here, far from being a consistent top-4 caliber player (which he is paid to be), he's been used moreso as a bottom-pairing "specialist", and that the teams overall level of play didn't improve after his arrival, I would argue that this "hockey man" was probably right in his assessement.
from a purely "fan" pov, obviously it's more fun to think about the former 50pt dman joining the team and taking the 23 year old erratic dman's potential minutes/role.
from an organizational development pov, it's these kinds of decisions that have kept us mired in mediocrity.
i guess it comes down to the question of wether or not the "downgrade" from Kaberle to Weber is significant enough to offset the cost (both financial/cap & development-wise) of adding an overpaid/underperforming veteran.
one has to look no further than a 100km's south of montreal to see what happens when the right coach takes the right approach to using young players, and a management team focused on building for long-term success instead of scrambling to spend on hopeful (and has been proven over and over, misguided) but far-to-risky short term bets...
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Originally Posted by Andy
He's being bounced around because he can't beat out anyone else for a roster spot. He just simple isn't good enough. Sure he's contributing offensively, but he's got to do more than that, which explains why his coaches are reluctant to use him defensively.
right, and adding Kaberle (whom RC is so enamoured with as to regularly keep him under 16min/game) added an expensive and 'poor-return-on-investment' obstacle in front of him.
And I don't know if we watch different games, or if we simply have vastly different levels of understanding what effective hockey looks like, but I would say that the bolded part is EXACTLY what we could/should be saying of Kaberle.
I expect a 4.25M$ veteran to "do more than that" far more consistently than I would expect a 23 year old <1M$ young player... so again, I think perhaps your expectations were/are off.
If Weber "sucks" b/c he isn't doing enough aside from his offensive contributions, what must you think of Kaberle?
I'm all for young players earning their ice time assuming that "earning" ice time is a standard that ALL players are held to, not just the young ones.
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Originally Posted by Andy
I disagree. I see Weber exactly like O'byrne, the type of player everyone will be waiting to perform consistently, only to actually fustrate you every game he does play in. I have the same opinion of Weber as I do O'byrne.
You do realize O'byrne was 26 when the habs traded him... at 23 he was still in college hockey.
So again, it comes down to how to evaluate a young NHL dman with limited experience.
20-25, for any team sport athlete, is a HUGE developmental stage.
Weber, thus far, has shown both adequate progression and abundant skill/hockey sense, to reasonably expect that he will be a vastly better hockey player by his mid-20's.
not too mention that, by just about all accounts, developping as a dman is a somewhat longer process than as a forward, given the intricacies of positioning and defensive zone play. Add in that Weber is a smallish player (thus even more dependant on positioning than a guy who can use physicality/intimidation to his advantage), and it is, imo, a no-brainer that his upper ceiling is far greater than the level we see today.
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Originally Posted by Andy
I say he sucks because he can't even crack one of the 6 spots on D on a team that doesn't have a strong defensive core to begin with. I never expected him to be a top 4 d-man. I expected him to be a bottom 2 d-man who can play on the PP and he has struggled doing that consistently this season. I just don't think he has the poise to play at this level, is decision making is slow and often quite poor.
right, yet we see Kaberle/Gill stay in the lineup consistantly despite SEVERAL games where they have flat out sucked... why? b/c they are vets, and that is how it goes most of the time.
after that?
Subban- similar age/pro experience, but I think (or I hope) we can agree that Subban is the rare exception as a young Dman who steps into the NHL and can handle 20+min/game.
Gorges- 4 years older, ~300 more games of Pro experience
Diaz- 3 yrs older, 160 more games experience
those 5 have played more than Weber, and you think he "sucks" b/c of that?
then there is
Emelin- 2 yrs older, ~150 more games pro experience, plays a physical style
Weber & Emelin have played about the same amount of games/minutes, despite Emelin having vastly more experience playing against men in a professional league.
sorry, but that's a pretty tenuous (and that's being polite) argument for why you think he sucks...
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Originally Posted by Andy
Not at all. I've been defending Diaz here since game one where everyone thought Emelin deserved to play over him. Diaz has been by far one of the most consistent and reliable defensemen this year.
older, more experienced...
funny, most people involved in sport at a high level would agree that age/maturity & experience are generally huge contributors to consistency & reliability.
you have a different opinion I suppose?
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Originally Posted by Andy
Who knows if he would, the point right now is that he is not ready and hasn't deserved much of a role. So again, I think the why get Kaberle when you have Weber is a non-issue considering how little Weber has contributed. Despite Kaberle's supposed terrible defensive game, he's still much better at Weber in both offensive and defensive parts of the game.
better, yes... Much better? disagree.
in a complete vacuum, where winning 1 game, or making the playoffs 1 season, is the absolute be-all end-all... sure, makes a lot of sense to get Kaberle.
in fact, while we're at it, why not trade away Emelin, Diaz, Eller, MaxPac, Subban to the higgest bidders, on the sole caveat that we get back players who are better RIGHT NOW, regardless of salary/age.
would be easiest thing to do b/c I'm sure there are a ton of "sucker" GM's out there who would foolishly take the younger/less reliable/more inconsistent player over their established and "more talented right now" vet.
of course, I'm sure even you would agree that this would be idiotic...
perhaps in this light, you can begin to understand why a "hockey source" would suggest that it was foolish for the habs to trade for Kaberle (and his contract) when they had Weber (and Diaz) in place.
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Originally Posted by Andy
By that logic we should expect Blunden to develop into a top 6 powerforward right? Since he's still young and has little nhl experience. Sometimes you just don't develop and Weber has shown very little in the defensive side of the game. In fact I don't think he has progressed at all.
ok, let's go slowly.
Dmen tend to take longer to develop/master their position than forwards. Check.
Weber is 23, Blunden is 25. Check.
Blunden has 317 games of pro hockey experience, Weber has 236. Check.
Weber has shown, effectively, that his jr. offensive skill has effectively translated to the NHL. Check.
Blunden has shown, effectively, that his jr. offensive skill has not effectively translated to the NHL. Check.
You generally can teach/learn positioning, angles, defensive zone concepts (assuming a motivated learner). Check.
You generally can't teach touch/finish/hands and overall offensive instinct. Check.
shall I go on?
If Weber is playing at the same level, defensively, in 2 years/100+ games from now, then sure, start to speculate that he won't progress any further.
but again, 23 years old, dman, very talented, spoken highly off by former coaches, despite his mistakes/weaknesses & small stature, competes hard (unlike guys like Cammy or Kaberle, whom seem to have forgotten what it means to compete).
you're writing him off based on a very small sample size, and seemingly completely ignoring the expected development curves of young dmen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
That is not the same scenario at all and a terrible analogy. Leblanc has shown a lot of promise. Weber has shown that he stagnating.
about as close as your blunden analogy.
and i highly disagree with your notion that Weber is stagnating. His offensive game has progressed steadily since he started playing pro hockey, and while his defensive play hasn't progressed as quickly (again, a very normal expectation by general tendencies among smallish offensively talented pmd), it certainly has improved.
and even if we disagree about his progress... he's only played 88 nhl games... to go with 140 AHL games... a tad bit early to be calling his progress "stagnated", unless of course ones expectations are way out to lunch.
et certains directeurs généraux qui vivent dans le passé...»
Gainey and company IMO are one of them
«Je ne veux pas critiquer personne, répond le premier dépisteur, mais je ne comprends pas pourquoi le Canadien a acquis Tomas Kaberle alors qu'il avait déjŕ Weber dans ses rangs...»
Yet some defend this move
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life
Yup he sucks, yet he has been one of the Habs best D in the past playoffs and his always played like a yo-yo. Hey Yannick go play forward tonight
I'm sure the Guy realizes how pathetic Kaberle and his contract is though
No offence to Weber but he does not have Kaberle's vision and poise at the point. You keep on hammering that Spacek for Kaberle was a bad trade but in 20 games with us, the guy has 13 points and he is showing a +/- of +2.
I also like the facts that he speaks a lot to our young Ds and finally got rid of his double chin!
When Streit was with us, plenty of fans were also quick to dismiss his offensive numbers (ppfff… stats!); the same thing seems to be happening with Kaberle. 47 points last season, 49 pts in 2009-10, 31 pts (57 GP) in 2008-09, 53 points in 2007-08... the guy still is a 50 points per season D man.
For a 4,3M$ cap hit, it is a very good return.
--------------------
As for Andrei Kostitsyn, I agree with most of the comments in this thread: I want Andrei to re sign with us (we need to keep more home grown talent, the guy is strong like a beef, his shot is great and his passing skill is underrated) so if the perception around the league is somewhat negative... fine! I guess we will need to keep him!
I don't think it's prudent to guesstimate player value...it's a surefire way to be disapointed when the eventual return, doesn't meet our expectations.
Right now, I don't think Hal Gill could get alot in a trade, but I think 'need' drives player value.
All you need is one team that all of a sudden sees they have a need for a certain type of player, and his value goes up
I'm not putting any expectations on what our pending UFA's could get...too early to tell and right now, they're all worth more to the Habs then they are to another team
Ponikarovsky cost Nerw Jersey a 4th, we should be able to get taht for Gill given his PK and playoff exploits.
that hockey man, like some hockey people around the league, might be suggesting that playing Weber now, accepting that there will be some growing pains, would have been a smarter move for the club long term even if in the short term it hurt some.
There is a lot going on here. So let's start. Basically, by saying all this, you admit that Weber isn't close to ready. So when someone says "why did they trade Kaberle when they had Weber" to me it's a stupid comment considering how far from ready Weber actually is. This season, I would not replace Kaberle with Weber, even if Kaberle plays 16 minutes a night, he is still superior in that department to Weber as well as superior offensively. For me it isn't even a Weber vs Kaberle thing, it's more of can Weber beat Emelin, Diaz or Campoli out of the lineup? So far he hasn't and hasn't shown anything which suggests that he can. So again, it's a non issue between the Kaberle/Weber deal. Kaberle is far superior to Weber right now. In fact every D-man on the team is superior to Weber right now.
Next, you are assuming that club has only long-term gains. They obviously don't(to which you'll make some comment about mediocrity of course). They have a series of short and long-term goals and it's clear Weber doesn't fit into those plans right now. And let's not act like he hasnt had any chances to prove himself either. Campoli and Spacek were out with injuries and Emelin was constantly scratched. Weber couldn't even outplay two defensemen who've never played in nhl ice.
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given Kaberle's contract for 2 more years, and the fact that he was coming in as a guy being scratched by one of the worst teams in the league, and the fact that since he's been here, far from being a consistent top-4 caliber player (which he is paid to be), he's been used moreso as a bottom-pairing "specialist", and that the teams overall level of play didn't improve after his arrival, I would argue that this "hockey man" was probably right in his assessement.
Again, I still don't see it as a Kaberle vs Weber issue. Kaberle is far superior to every aspect of the game than Weber despite him being a "specialist". More so, the fact that Weber couldn't even secure a bottom pairing spot is quite telling of where he is at in his development. Had Weber been playing exceptionally well maybe I would side with the "hockey man", but he wasn't and couldn't beat out two other rookies. Didn't St.Denis even pass him on the depth chart at one point?
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from a purely "fan" pov, obviously it's more fun to think about the former 50pt dman joining the team and taking the 23 year old erratic dman's potential minutes/role.
from an organizational development pov, it's these kinds of decisions that have kept us mired in mediocrity.
See it's comments like this I don't understand. It's pretty clear that the habs are not afraid to throw rookies in the lineup or experienced players and let them learn provided they can actually perform, look at Pacioretty, Eller, Desharnais all in the lineup playing well and performing. You can even add Diaz and Emelin to that list considering they are technical rookies as well.
So no I don't think it's this decision that has kept the team mediocre considering they are already letting young players develop in the lineup. It's simple, Weber isn't that good right now and has shown very little of why he deserves to play over the others.
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i guess it comes down to the question of wether or not the "downgrade" from Kaberle to Weber is significant enough to offset the cost (both financial/cap & development-wise) of adding an overpaid/underperforming veteran.
Yes and I think replacing Kaberle with Weber at this point in his development is a clear downgrade.
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one has to look no further than a 100km's south of montreal to see what happens when the right coach takes the right approach to using young players, and a management team focused on building for long-term success instead of scrambling to spend on hopeful (and has been proven over and over, misguided) but far-to-risky short term bets...
You mean how the coaching staff has taken the right approach with Desharnais, Eller, Pacioretty, Diaz and Emelin and have seen them come along very nicely thus far? Same goes for Subban who has improved his defensive game 100 fold.
So no it hasn't been all short-term goals. It's quite evident that they have a mix of both and it's quite evident with this in mind that Weber isn't ready.
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right, and adding Kaberle (whom RC is so enamoured with as to regularly keep him under 16min/game) added an expensive and 'poor-return-on-investment' obstacle in front of him.
He hasn't turned the powerplay around, but he's been a contributor with his 13 points in 20 games. If you can cling on to Weber's point totals as argument in favor of Weber, than we can easily see who is superior in that department, not to mention that Kaberle is better defensively than Weber despite his "short comings".
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And I don't know if we watch different games, or if we simply have vastly different levels of understanding what effective hockey looks like, but I would say that the bolded part is EXACTLY what we could/should be saying of Kaberle.
Effective hockey is definitely not putting a player in a position he cannot fill. Weber hasn't shown that he can be a full time nhler yet. There was a spot that needed to be filled and was filled by Kaberle. Had Weber been able to fill that spot we wouldn't be having this conversation. I think every GM would rather have cheaper younger players filling roles than older and pricer ones. So again, it seems odd to me to say "why trade Kaberle when you have Weber" when Weber hasn't been able to fill that position all year and has been leaps and bounds the worst D-man on a weak defensive core. His positioning, poise and hockeyIQ have been lacking all year long. These are important fundamentals to a d-man which Weber has shown no improvement in.
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I expect a 4.25M$ veteran to "do more than that" far more consistently than I would expect a 23 year old <1M$ young player... so again, I think perhaps your expectations were/are off.
Weber isn't even able to bring the supposed "little contribution"(according to you) that Kaberle has brought.
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If Weber "sucks" b/c he isn't doing enough aside from his offensive contributions, what must you think of Kaberle?
I think Kaberle has been able to stabilize the bottom pairing which Weber wasn't able to do.
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I'm all for young players earning their ice time assuming that "earning" ice time is a standard that ALL players are held to, not just the young ones.
This is something that is not unique to Montreal, every team gives their vets the benefit of the doubt. So I don't see what the point is.
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You do realize O'byrne was 26 when the habs traded him... at 23 he was still in college hockey.
So what? Weber has the exact same problems I didn't like about O'byrne, which is bad positioning, no poise and questionable hockeyIQ at the nhl level.
As for the rest, it looks all the same, you arguing that Weber is still in his development. Even if he is, the fact is, right now he isn't good enough and has not been good enough to play regularly this season(which is my point, so you can continue arguing that he is still developing, the fact doesn't change that he isn't good enough to be playing consistently right now). So again, I don't see bringing in Kaberle to fill in a spot that another player has failed to fill on many occasions as an issue at all. To suggest that Weber could bring what Kaberle brings is nonsense since he is quite aways from doing so(if ever gets there, which I don't think he will). And also considering negative your opinions of Kaberle are, it's pretty telling about the quality of play Weber has brought this year considering he can't even bring that "low-level" of play Kaberle has.
There are other reasons to think the Kaberle trade was a bad one(in fact I think the only reason is cap space because if he was making 900K I don't think people would have a problem), but thinking the trade is a bad because they have Weber, the same Weber who couldn't hold a spot in the lineup before Kaberle's acquisition is a complete non-reason. There were many spots on D for Weber to earn his chance, but he got beat out by two inexperienced D men who never stepped foot on NA ice.
That he is (belo)russian means he has this ''reputation'' tagged on him. He'd be much more coveted he was from Saskatchewan with a gritty name like Richard MacGregor.
Agreed. It would also help his press clippings if Mr. MacGregor was a 7th rounder/undrafted guy who clawed his way to a legit top 9 forward role. AK gets a lor of irrational hate b/c he'll never measure up to Getzlaf, Parise and others from his draft year.
A 20-goal forward who plays big and has become pretty defensibly responsible, and who has chemistry with the team's young 3rd line centre. 4 years, 14M. Done and thank you.
And the 'hockey man' who was not interested in AK can go fall back on a slot on Antichambre.
3 years older (2yrs/9months), 160 more games of professional experience...
Moen is better than Leblanc right now, guess we should give up on him too.
Weber has had many chances to prove himself and has failed to do so. In the meantime, Diaz has shown more maturity in his game both defensively and offensively.
Also, Leblanc has played a couple of games this year and shown good things. It's his first pro year too. And it's quite sad you use Moen for this terrible analogy. I hope you don't think Leblanc has the same skillset than Moen because they just are not the same type of players.
It looks like the first NHL 'man' is an amateur scout (weak draft, but don't trade our first pick...). I would be surprised if he really knew Kostitsyn's value on the trade market, or any of our players value.
It looks like the first NHL 'man' is an amateur scout (weak draft, but don't trade our first pick...). I would be surprised if he really knew Kostitsyn's value on the trade market, or any of our players value.
i will say IF HABS trade T its they will not get a 1st rd pick- its posiible maybea high end team- n but i doubt it- i could se a 2nd rder and a prospect- i think goat will be looking at a roster player
To be fair to him I think consistancy is the main difference between talented all stars and talented top6 players. If he was consistant he'd be a perennial 35g 35 assist scorer. He's not and thats why he'll get 3.5 or 4m only this summer.
That he is (belo)russian means he has this ''reputation'' tagged on him. He'd be much more coveted he was from Saskatchewan with a gritty name like Richard MacGregor.
I agree with this. People basically put him down because he doesn't keep up the scoring streaks he goes on time the time. If he was consistent with those streaks, he'd be in the same tier as the Richards, Browns, Carters, that people in hindsight would want over him. I still think he's got potential to pull a Lupul and live up to that potential he was drafted for one day. I hope it'll be with the Habs.
Weber has had many chances to prove himself and has failed to do so. In the meantime, Diaz has shown more maturity in his game both defensively and offensively.
Also, Leblanc has played a couple of games this year and shown good things. It's his first pro year too. And it's quite sad you use Moen for this terrible analogy. I hope you don't think Leblanc has the same skillset than Moen because they just are not the same type of players.
Diaz is also 2 years older. I think Weber had had a few chances and played some solid hockey but we always seem to have a few older d-men around and he gets bumped. I would like to see Gill Campoli and maybe Kaberle moved before the deadline so we can play the young guys...and hopefully get Markov back.
bottom line, saying that weber "sucks" is a low-brow assessment that shows a very poor understanding of what a quality young hockey player consists of. i don't often agree with you, but at least in most cases your arguments rise above this kind of elementary level "he sucks" type of fan reaction to players they don't like, not sure what's happening now, but don't really care.
let's revisit this in 2-3 years shall we... and at that point please try to refrain from the "it's easy to see things with hindsight" excuse.
