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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part II

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Old
02-01-2012, 03:29 PM
  #101
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
What differenc does it make to you if the NHL really was abandoning its southern expansion and wanted to go where the money is?
I suppose you felt the same way in 1996 right?

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02-01-2012, 03:31 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post

A lot of American fans (not most of them, but more of them) would look at the league as an oversized CFL if you had more Canadian teams, without keeping or adding US teams.
The NHL wants to be for sure in the Big 4 and while Canadians may think that there's a Big 4, about 1/3 of Americans don't, I don't want to make that worse, since I have to live here....
again, money is a thing, but it's not the ONLY thing.
The same Canadians that are so pro Quebec and all the other reasonable markets in Canada that use the money arguement, would rip a Raptor or a Blue Jay star (this could happen to Lawrie if he turns out to be the superstar I think he will be in 5 years or less) for signing with the Yankees or something like that since, that's where the money is. I find it ironic.
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
As if people in Phoenix or Seattle know about the CFL.
The point is that the NHL failures will be broadcast to the point of questioning the viability of the sport.

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02-01-2012, 03:36 PM
  #103
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Have funds been allocated to build a new arena? Who's going to pay for it? Have the plans been finalized? If the Coyotes are going to be relocated that discussion is happening now, not in some hypothetical future.

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02-01-2012, 03:39 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MAROONSRoad View Post
Have funds been allocated to build a new arena? Who's going to pay for it? Have the plans been finalized? If the Coyotes are going to be relocated that discussion is happening now, not in some hypothetical future.
There are discussions in Seattle. However, but it's been done before, where a market from one of the big 4 leagues, started in a town, with discussions still ongoing, but not final, shovel in the ground, build and definite open date with a new arena/stadium and it still worked (ie, the new arena plans were FINALIZED after the team relocated or started).
Tampa Bay in the NHL and the Nationals in MLB are 2 somewhat recent examples of this...


Last edited by beenhereandthere: 02-01-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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Old
02-01-2012, 03:42 PM
  #105
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As if people in Phoenix or Seattle know about the CFL.
When the CFL was still on CBC, Seattle would get the CBC-Vancouver feed locally. Also when TSN got the exclusive CFL rights in Canada, a local public access type channel in Seattle picked up rights to play 2 games a week which usually included the "local" BC Lions game. Games are still shown on NFL Network.

Most of my American friends do think that the Canadian game is crazy with all the passing and forward motion yet get excited when we watch it.

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02-01-2012, 03:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
There are discussions in Seattle. However, but it's been done before, where a market from one of the big 4 leagues, started in a town, with discussions still ongoing, but not final, shovel in the ground, build and definite open date with a new arena/stadium and it still worked.
Tampa Bay in the NHL and the Nationals in MLB are 2 somewhat recent examples of this...
Or San Jose, Phoenix & Carolina in the NHL.

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02-01-2012, 04:06 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Which is not the be all end to society. And frankly supporting the weakest of the big four is nothing to brag about either. Vancouver had crappy attendance as recently as shortly before the Naslund era. So hockey town? Not like Toronto and Montreal.
lol.. Vancouver shouldnt brag about supporting hockey but than you put them down for not being as hockey townish like Toronto/Montreal? also, Toronto is a hockey town?

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02-01-2012, 04:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
There are discussions in Seattle. However, but it's been done before, where a market from one of the big 4 leagues, started in a town, with discussions still ongoing, but not final, shovel in the ground, build and definite open date with a new arena/stadium and it still worked (ie, the new arena plans were FINALIZED after the team relocated or started).
Tampa Bay in the NHL and the Nationals in MLB are 2 somewhat recent examples of this...
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Originally Posted by tank44 View Post
Or San Jose, Phoenix & Carolina in the NHL.
The then San Jose Arena was already approved by voters (1988) and fully committed - land acquired, financing in place, original design done, and San Jose Arena Authority established to manage the construction - before the Sharks were awarded their expansion franchise in May 1990.

San Jose had already granted Howard Baldwin the rights to operate an NHL team in the City owned arena. When the Gunds threatened to move to Oakland, the League negotiated the deal where Baldwin got the North Stars and the Gunds were granted the expansion Sharks.

It was originally planned to open for the '92-'93 season - with only one season planned in the Palace of Fine Cows - but construction delays (due to design changes after the Sharks were awarded) delayed the opening by a year until '93-'94 - giving two years in the Bovine Bunker.


Last edited by kdb209: 02-01-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old
02-01-2012, 04:20 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Which is not the be all end to society. And frankly supporting the weakest of the big four is nothing to brag about either. Vancouver had crappy attendance as recently as shortly before the Naslund era. So hockey town? Not like Toronto and Montreal.
Huh? There is no "big four" in Canada. Why would you even bring that up unless you want to judge a Canadian city by another country's standards, which is exactly what I think you like to do.

As for Vancouver not being a hockey town, that's laughable given that the Canucks games on their regional TV broadcast average about 400,000 per game. No American team comes even close to that and Canucks do better than the Leafs and Canadiens on a per capital basis.

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02-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MAROONSRoad View Post
Have funds been allocated to build a new arena? Who's going to pay for it? Have the plans been finalized? If the Coyotes are going to be relocated that discussion is happening now, not in some hypothetical future.
No.
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Originally Posted by MAROONSRoad View Post
Huh? There is no "big four" in Canada. Why would you even bring that up unless you want to judge a Canadian city by another country's standards, which is exactly what I think you like to do.

As for Vancouver not being a hockey town, that's laughable given that the Canucks games on their regional TV broadcast average about 400,000 per game. No American team comes even close to that and Canucks do better than the Leafs and Canadiens on a per capital basis.
I thought this arguement was over.

No there is not a big four in Canada. There is the big 5. The CFL which gets the highest ratings of all. You happy now? But TSN, Sportsnet and even the CBC use this term. Yet GHOST says otherwise so it should not exist

We were have a discussion with a guy who criticized Seattle as not being able to support the NHL because they lost the NBA. I thought that was rubbish. My point was support the NHL would be easier, and yet Vancouver has an attendance drop due the Grizzles and bad play.

Maybe you should get some context and read the entire thread before coming to start a fight with me. I live in a different part of the country than you do and many of us have different favorites and likes, and shock, not all of them are Canadian Sports.

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02-01-2012, 04:42 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
lol.. Vancouver shouldnt brag about supporting hockey but than you put them down for not being as hockey townish like Toronto/Montreal? also, Toronto is a hockey town?
Yes.

Is Hamilton? Or is it just like Toronto.

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02-01-2012, 04:47 PM
  #112
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And so what if I do judge Vancouver as a sports city by North American Standards Ghost, I'm not allowed to my opinion?

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02-01-2012, 04:47 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
No.

I thought this arguement was over.

No there is not a big four in Canada. There is the big 5. The CFL which gets the highest ratings of all. You happy now? But TSN, Sportsnet and even the CBC use this term. Yet GHOST says otherwise so it should not exist

We were have a discussion with a guy who criticized Seattle as not being able to support the NHL because they lost the NBA. I thought that was rubbish. My point was support the NHL would be easier, and yet Vancouver has an attendance drop due the Grizzles and bad play.

Maybe you should get some context and read the entire thread before coming to start a fight with me. I live in a different part of the country than you do and many of us have different favorites and likes, and shock, not all of them are Canadian Sports.
I think there's a big 2 in Canada : NHL, CFL.

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02-01-2012, 04:56 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by MAROONSRoad View Post
Have funds been allocated to build a new arena? Who's going to pay for it? Have the plans been finalized? If the Coyotes are going to be relocated that discussion is happening now, not in some hypothetical future.
Its gonna be mostly privately funded and there is going to be a bill introduced at the state capital will will put a fee on the NHL and NBA that come to play in Seattle to help pay for it.

Other than that haven't heard anything more regarding funding. But its not going to involve public money like safeco field and century link field did at least not in that amount.

They are keeping things quiet until they are ready to announce it would be my guess.


Last edited by gstommylee: 02-01-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old
02-01-2012, 04:57 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Kebekoi View Post
I think there's a big 2 in Canada : NHL, CFL.
I'm judging based on intrest by region.

NBA, NFL are more popular out east. CFL is only really popular out west.

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02-01-2012, 05:10 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post

A lot of American fans (not most of them, but more of them) would look at the league as an oversized CFL if you had more Canadian teams, without keeping or adding US teams.
Oversized CFL?

The league would still have 22 American teams! More than 2/3 of the league's teams would still be located in the United States!

Quote:
The NHL wants to be for sure in the Big 4 and while Canadians may think that there's a Big 4, about 1/3 of Americans don't, I don't want to make that worse, since I have to live here....
again, money is a thing, but it's not the ONLY thing.
The same Canadians that are so pro Quebec and all the other reasonable markets in Canada that use the money arguement, would rip a Raptor or a Blue Jay star (this could happen to Lawrie if he turns out to be the superstar I think he will be in 5 years or less) for signing with the Yankees or something like that since, that's where the money is. I find it ironic.
Both the Raptors and Blue Jays have plenty of money to match anything that the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, or Knicks offer.

If a star decides to leave, it is for other reasons entirely.

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02-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Oversized CFL?

The league would still have 22 American teams! More than 2/3 of the league's teams would still be located in the United States!

That is awful teriminology, but the sentiment is correct. The reports about hockey failing will be vicious.

Quote:
I know it will shock Americans such as yourself, but both the Raptors and Blue Jays have more than enough money to match whatever the Yankees or Knicks or Lakers can offer.
You ad least admit Rogers and MLSE suck. The price for big market sports.

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02-01-2012, 05:30 PM
  #118
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I'm sold.

Me too. I'm moving there.

Very nice OP.

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02-01-2012, 05:32 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Oversized CFL?

The league would still have 22 American teams! More than 2/3 of the league's teams would still be located in the United States!



Both the Raptors and Blue Jays have plenty of money to match anything that the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, or Knicks offer.

If a star decides to leave, it is for other reasons entirely.
No offence meant, but you're wearing a tin foil partisan hat if you think that's true about the Raptors or the Jays....
while they may be better $wise than say the Royals in Baseball or the Blazers in hoops, to say that they're near the Yankees or the Knicks however, is partisan and foolish.
on top of that Devils/Rangers/Islanders = 1 media market. Kings/Ducks = 1 media market.
so the actual number in the US would be more like 19, only 3 or 4 above MLS and 7 to 8 behind the other big 3.

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02-01-2012, 05:37 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
No offence meant, but you're wearing a tin foil partisan hat if you think that's true about the Raptors or the Jays....
while they may be better $wise than say the Royals in Baseball or the Blazers in hoops, to say that they're near the Yankees or the Knicks however, is partisan and foolish.
Not true. Toronto is the 4th largest media market in NA. Rogers had 13 billion in revenue. They can. The Blue Jays had the largest payroll when they won, and spend over 100 million in 2007

You need to brush up on your Toronto sir, no offence.

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02-01-2012, 05:40 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Not true. Toronto is the 4th largest media market in NA. Rogers had 13 billion in revenue. They can. The Blue Jays had the largest payroll when they won, and spend over 100 million in 2007

You need to brush up on your Toronto sir, no offence.
100 million is still peanuts compared to the Yanks, Red Sox and Phillies.
While I don't doubt Toronto is in the upper 1/2 of revenues in MLB and NBA, I think it's a real stretch to say that since they're the 4th largest NA market that ='s NYC, Chicago, LA, Boston...

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02-01-2012, 05:45 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
100 million is still peanuts compared to the Yanks, Red Sox and Phillies.
While I don't doubt Toronto is in the upper 1/2 of revenues in MLB and NBA, I think it's a real stretch to say that since they're the 4th largest NA market that ='s NYC, Chicago, LA, Boston...
It's not Boston, with only 4.4 million people 100 million is on par with Philadelphia and 50 million behind Boston.

Toronto is the 4th by all accounts.

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02-01-2012, 05:54 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
It's not Boston, with only 4.4 million people 100 million is on par with Philadelphia and 50 million behind Boston.

Toronto is the 4th by all accounts.
4th doesn't necessarily mean buying power that ='s 4th.
Don't want to get off topic, I was just pointing out how Canadians should not use the money is everything argument all the time. Neither should Americans.

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02-01-2012, 06:05 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
4th doesn't necessarily mean buying power that ='s 4th.
Don't want to get off topic, I was just pointing out how Canadians should not use the money is everything argument all the time. Neither should Americans.
Fair enough.

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02-01-2012, 07:11 PM
  #125
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As if people in Phoenix or Seattle know about the CFL.
Ok, I'm gonna try to name the CFL teams. I pretty much have only heard of them from our local paper (which did a snippet on the BC Lion's Gray Cup thing) and from reading Canadian hockey fans mention the CFL)

Saskatoon Roughriders.

Edmonton Eskimos(?)

Calgary has a team...

BC Lions

Toronto also probably has a team...

Montreal Aloettes

Hamilton Bulldogs(?)

I think the Seahawks have a former CFLer, which the commentators mentioned on a local broadcast.

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