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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part II

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Old
02-01-2012, 06:44 PM
  #126
beenhereandthere
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Originally Posted by Seattle Sasquatch View Post
Ok, I'm gonna try to name the CFL teams. I pretty much have only heard of them from our local paper (which did a snippet on the BC Lion's Gray Cup thing) and from reading Canadian hockey fans mention the CFL)

Saskatoon Roughriders.

Edmonton Eskimos(?)

Calgary has a team...

BC Lions

Toronto also probably has a team...

Montreal Aloettes

Hamilton Bulldogs(?)

I think the Seahawks have a former CFLer, which the commentators mentioned on a local broadcast.

The CFL is actually not a bad league and I've seen a few games, but there's a reason why some players in it have off season employment, you know?

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02-01-2012, 06:44 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Seattle Sasquatch View Post
Ok, I'm gonna try to name the CFL teams. I pretty much have only heard of them from our local paper (which did a snippet on the BC Lion's Gray Cup thing) and from reading Canadian hockey fans mention the CFL)

Saskatoon Roughriders.

Edmonton Eskimos(?)

Calgary has a team...

BC Lions

Toronto also probably has a team...

Montreal Aloettes

Hamilton Bulldogs(?)
I think the Seahawks have a former CFLer, which the commentators mentioned on a local broadcast.
son of a..
Hamilton Tiger Cats or 2012 Grey Cup champs will do as well

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02-01-2012, 06:48 PM
  #128
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Not true. Toronto is the 4th largest media market in NA. Rogers had 13 billion in revenue. They can. The Blue Jays had the largest payroll when they won, and spend over 100 million in 2007

You need to brush up on your Toronto sir, no offence.
uhh no it doesnt work like that MM.. Torontos a small baseball market they cannot compete with the NY's $ wise

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02-01-2012, 06:51 PM
  #129
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I think there's an other team called the roughriders, but that's okay its not like anyone actually gives a crap about the CFL.

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02-01-2012, 07:13 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Seattle Sasquatch View Post
Ok, I'm gonna try to name the CFL teams. I pretty much have only heard of them from our local paper (which did a snippet on the BC Lion's Gray Cup thing) and from reading Canadian hockey fans mention the CFL)

Saskatoon Roughriders.

Edmonton Eskimos(?)

Calgary has a team...

BC Lions

Toronto also probably has a team...

Montreal Aloettes

Hamilton Bulldogs(?)

I think the Seahawks have a former CFLer, which the commentators mentioned on a local broadcast.
Hasn't this dual-HoF'er mentioned the Eskimos...



...when he has done color during the Seahawks broadcasts...


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02-01-2012, 07:15 PM
  #131
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uhh no it doesnt work like that MM.. Torontos a small baseball market they cannot compete with the NY's $ wise
Yes it does. Toronto had the largest payroll in 1993. Rogers chooses not to spend money. They are the 2nd largest corporation to own a baseball team but they are incompetent. Rogers is a corporation of 13 billion reveune so why would you try to claim they have less money then the steinbrunners when they don't?

If you don't know the difference and want to actually claim Boston which is 66% the size of Toronto as bigger then go ahead. They have spent over 100 million within the last five years.

You can't divide based on sports.

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02-01-2012, 07:15 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
I think there's an other team called the roughriders, but that's okay its not like anyone actually gives a crap about the CFL.
That team shut down and that market failed in a comeback.

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02-01-2012, 07:30 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Yes it does. Toronto had the largest payroll in 1993. Rogers chooses not to spend money. They are the 2nd largest corporation to own a baseball team but they are incompetent. Rogers is a corporation of 13 billion reveune so why would you try to claim they have less money then the steinbrunners when they don't?

If you don't know the difference and want to actually claim Boston which is 66% the size of Toronto as bigger then go ahead. They have spent over 100 million within the last five years.

You can't divide based on sports.
its not about how much money an owner has it how much the club makes.. Toronto's closer to the Pirates than the Yankees... its a small baseball market..

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02-01-2012, 07:32 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
That team shut down and that market failed in a comeback.
its the Ottawa Rough-Riders...the '-' clearly made it different

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02-01-2012, 07:38 PM
  #135
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its not about how much money an owner has it how much the club makes.. Toronto's closer to the Pirates than the Yankees... its a small baseball market..
Not its not. Your basing that on results and attendance(not even the largets source of revenue.)

How are the closer to the Pirates? Unless you want to claime the Jays lose money(with hard facts by the way). The Mets did last year.

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02-01-2012, 07:40 PM
  #136
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its the Ottawa Rough-Riders...the '-' clearly made it different
Regardless of the reason it was stupid to have two teams with the same name, Saskatchewan realizes this which why they won't let the new Ottawa team use the name.

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02-01-2012, 08:12 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Seattle Sasquatch View Post
Ok, I'm gonna try to name the CFL teams. I pretty much have only heard of them from our local paper (which did a snippet on the BC Lion's Gray Cup thing) and from reading Canadian hockey fans mention the CFL)

Saskatoon Roughriders.

Edmonton Eskimos(?)

Calgary has a team...

BC Lions

Toronto also probably has a team...

Montreal Aloettes

Hamilton Bulldogs(?)

I think the Seahawks have a former CFLer, which the commentators mentioned on a local broadcast.
Winnipeg Blue Bombers...

Former CFLer that's on the Seahawks is your punter John Ryan, played on Bombers for 1 season.

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Old
02-01-2012, 08:18 PM
  #138
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I noticed that said, your source, for game 7, not the whole series, will have to look it up again, too tired now, but I vividly remember reading that...
found it, granted my source, now that I look at it closer, was only for game 2 and Buffalo had a higher rating (for towns outside of New England), still though, it's a good sign..

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011...op-for-game-2/
as they say, there are lies, damn lies, and then statistics...

you are quite correct tho, overall pretty good #s for the seattle market

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02-01-2012, 11:20 PM
  #139
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No offence meant, but you're wearing a tin foil partisan hat if you think that's true about the Raptors or the Jays....
while they may be better $wise than say the Royals in Baseball or the Blazers in hoops, to say that they're near the Yankees or the Knicks however, is partisan and foolish.
Your misinterpreting my point. I never implied that the Raptors and Blue Jays generate the kind of money that the Lakers and Yankees do. I said that they simply have the money to match nearly any offer made to one of their players from those teams. When not rebuilding, both are more than capable of carrying top 10 payrolls.

The Jays were more than happy to dish out massive contracts to the likes of Halladay, Burnett, Ryan, Wells, Rios, and Bautista over the past five years alone. They may not be able to go out and buy a championship like the Yankees can, but they aren't the Pirates or Marlins either. They have the money to sign any piece that they deem necessary to compete and to keep their homegrown talent.

The Raptors similarly have handed out many big contracts in the last half decade (Bosh, Turkolu, etc.). They are owned by MLSE, who also owns the Leafs, and is one of the most profitable sports and entertainment groups in North America (just a guess, but likely only behind AEG in LA and MSG in NY). If the need to spend arises, the team will spend. Carter and Bosh never left because the team refused to pay them what opposing teams would pay. They left because they wanted more exposure in the United States, as ESPN ignores anything Canada-related (including, the sport of hockey).

Quote:
on top of that Devils/Rangers/Islanders = 1 media market. Kings/Ducks = 1 media market.
so the actual number in the US would be more like 19, only 3 or 4 above MLS and 7 to 8 behind the other big 3.
The NHL will always be behind the other sports in that regard. They have an obligation (and yes, it is an obligation) to maintain more of a presence in Canada than the other major sports leagues do.

Also, it isn't as if the NHL is the only league that has multiple teams in one market. The NFL has 2 teams in New York and San Francisco, the NBA has 2 teams in New York and Los Angeles, and the MLB has 2 teams in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and San Francisco.

If the league is set on expanding come ~2015 like some have speculated, it could have 23 teams in the United States (add Seattle) and 9 in Canada (Quebec City and Southern Ontario added, thereby maxing out all profitable Canadian locales). Same amount of American teams as we have now, yet two more Canadian teams.

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02-02-2012, 12:30 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Your misinterpreting my point. I never implied that the Raptors and Blue Jays generate the kind of money that the Lakers and Yankees do. I said that they simply have the money to match nearly any offer made to one of their players from those teams. When not rebuilding, both are more than capable of carrying top 10 payrolls.

The Jays were more than happy to dish out massive contracts to the likes of Halladay, Burnett, Ryan, Wells, Rios, and Bautista over the past five years alone. They may not be able to go out and buy a championship like the Yankees can, but they aren't the Pirates or Marlins either. They have the money to sign any piece that they deem necessary to compete and to keep their homegrown talent.

The Raptors similarly have handed out many big contracts in the last half decade (Bosh, Turkolu, etc.). They are owned by MLSE, who also owns the Leafs, and is one of the most profitable sports and entertainment groups in North America (just a guess, but likely only behind AEG in LA and MSG in NY). If the need to spend arises, the team will spend. Carter and Bosh never left because the team refused to pay them what opposing teams would pay. They left because they wanted more exposure in the United States, as ESPN ignores anything Canada-related (including, the sport of hockey).



The NHL will always be behind the other sports in that regard. They have an obligation (and yes, it is an obligation) to maintain more of a presence in Canada than the other major sports leagues do.

Also, it isn't as if the NHL is the only league that has multiple teams in one market. The NFL has 2 teams in New York and San Francisco, the NBA has 2 teams in New York and Los Angeles, and the MLB has 2 teams in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and San Francisco.

If the league is set on expanding come ~2015 like some have speculated, it could have 23 teams in the United States (add Seattle) and 9 in Canada (Quebec City and Southern Ontario added, thereby maxing out all profitable Canadian locales). Same amount of American teams as we have now, yet two more Canadian teams.
We are in the tier wih SF, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington. So we come close

Houston and Atlanta are not 4 sports so they don't count.

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02-02-2012, 01:30 AM
  #141
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lol.. Vancouver shouldnt brag about supporting hockey but than you put them down for not being as hockey townish like Toronto/Montreal? also, Toronto is a hockey town?
are you serious?

go check which nhl franchise is worth the most, which nhl franchise has the most fans, which nhl franchise draws the highest ratings, which nhl city produces the most amount of players, which development leagues are most competitive, etc.

hint: the correct answers to the questions posed above all point to one city (toronto), its suburbs (gta), and the greater region (southern ontario).

please, i hope you're just trolling. this is so stupid. why am i even posting about toronto being a hockey town? i might as well be writing posts explaining how dallas is a football town, how new york city is a baseball town, how manchester is a soccer town...

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02-02-2012, 01:39 AM
  #142
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its not about how much money an owner has it how much the club makes.. Toronto's closer to the Pirates than the Yankees... its a small baseball market..


someone's a little bitter.

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02-02-2012, 01:53 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
We are in the tier wih SF, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington. So we come close

Houston and Atlanta are not 4 sports so they don't count.
Neither does Toronto, get the Bills then fine but until then Toronto is one tier lower than Boston and Co.

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02-02-2012, 03:00 AM
  #144
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The CFL is actually not a bad league and I've seen a few games, but there's a reason why some players in it have off season employment, you know?
That's an accurate assessment, actually. I notice more dropped passes, missed tackles and turnovers in the CFL (You can have more than 4 turnovers in a game and win in the CFL, but not usually in the States.) than I do when watching an NFL game between two bad teams. But it's still an exciting game. I take pride in the CFL, but I know where it stands. One of the great things about living in Canada and watching two leagues is having the luxury of watching a meaningful football game that counts toward something any time from late June all the way 'til Super Bowl time. Some Sundays from September to November, there will be CFL and NFL on at the same time, and you have to flip back and forth (But during the 3 Sunday window in November that is the CFL playoffs, all eyes are on that, especially if your team is in it. And last season, my team happened to win the Grey Cup, so, I was NFL-less for a couple weeks, there.). Lots of people have a favourite team in both leagues. I know in Vancouver, I can't think of a lot of people that will watch only CFL. Those people are around, but it's usually NFL fans that don't like the CFL or people that are fans of both. Maybe people liking only the CFL is more of a Saskatchewan thing.

As for that whole thing mentioned about the Roughriders and Rough-Riders, I thought it was bad ass that the CFL had two teams with the same name in a league of eight. It just kind of shows that they didn't give a ****. I miss that.

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02-02-2012, 03:40 AM
  #145
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As for that whole thing mentioned about the Roughriders and Rough-Riders, I thought it was bad ass that the CFL had two teams with the same name in a league of eight. It just kind of shows that they didn't give a ****. I miss that.
This was a historical artifact from the merger of 2 separate leagues, the IRFU (Interprovincial Rugby Football Union) and WIFU (Western Interprovincial Football Union) in 1958 to form the CFL. Due to the NHLPA temporary demise of the Montreal Alouettes, Winnipeg eventually ended up in the south east division. So don't believe all this stuff about the NHL being an oversized CFL

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02-02-2012, 03:47 AM
  #146
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are you serious?

go check which nhl franchise is worth the most, which nhl franchise has the most fans, which nhl franchise draws the highest ratings, which nhl city produces the most amount of players, which development leagues are most competitive, etc.

hint: the correct answers to the questions posed above all point to one city (toronto), its suburbs (gta), and the greater region (southern ontario).

please, i hope you're just trolling. this is so stupid. why am i even posting about toronto being a hockey town? i might as well be writing posts explaining how dallas is a football town, how new york city is a baseball town, how manchester is a soccer town...
Just a guess, but maybe the "Toronto a hockey town?" comment is in reference to Toronto's mediocre support for the various OHL teams in the city not to mention the downright ambivalance towards the Marlies. Obviously the Leafs are the flagship franchise in the NHL when it comes to revenue, but their support of lower levels of hockey leave something to be desired.

Toronto, an NHL town or Leafs town?? Sure, but probably not a hockey town.

The best example of a hockey town I can think of at this moment would be the Twin Cities. Fantastic support at all levels.

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02-02-2012, 07:54 AM
  #147
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The NHL will always be behind the other sports in that regard. They have an obligation (and yes, it is an obligation) to maintain more of a presence in Canada than the other major sports leagues do.

.
I have to take issue with this. The NHL is a business not a charity if they have 3 or 9 teams in Canada it does not matter as long as they make money. If some people in the county don't have a team they will still watch, ig not oh well?

Will you say the NHL woukd be less popular if it was just Calagry, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver? no.

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02-02-2012, 08:28 AM
  #148
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I have to take issue with this. The NHL is a business not a charity if they have 3 or 9 teams in Canada it does not matter as long as they make money. If some people in the county don't have a team they will still watch, ig not oh well?

Will you say the NHL woukd be less popular if it was just Calagry, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver? no.
Your right, this is business, and that is precisely why the NHL has a need for Canadian franchises. If you choose not to tap the markets that are available, someone else will make a go of it. A recreated WHA with teams in Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, and Quebec City, plus a sprinkling of American teams would mean a rival league competing for players and challenging the NHL's dominance as the top league in the planet.

The late 70s Winnipeg Jets would have been a formidable opponent for any NHL club at the time. It isn't a stretch to think such a thing could happen again should the league retract to only have 4 teams in Canada.

So, yes, it is an obligation to have several teams in Canadian markets. Combined with the historical and cultural ties the NHL has within Canada, it is always going to have more teams in Canadian markets than its rivals (NBA/MLB/NFL), and thus always have less American teams. If someone has a problem with that, I'd suggest they choose another sport to watch.

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02-02-2012, 10:41 AM
  #149
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Just a guess, but maybe the "Toronto a hockey town?" comment is in reference to Toronto's mediocre support for the various OHL teams in the city not to mention the downright ambivalance towards the Marlies.

Toronto, an NHL town or Leafs town?? Sure, but probably not a hockey town.

The best example of a hockey town I can think of at this moment would be the Twin Cities. Fantastic support at all levels.
I'm not a TO supporter or live in TO, but you're on thin ice there. I lived long enough in Sault Ste Marie (yeah, I saw Gretzky play for the Greyhounds), Guleph and London to understand a bit about Toronto and the OHL. The Marlies get as much support as you coudl expect, and it`s actually pretty good. But it would be like expecting a second tier professional football team in Texas to succeed. The amateurs (i.e., college in Texas and OHL in Ontario) and high school (or youth league) will always kill the second tier in that kind of market.

Do you know how many OHL teams there are in the GTA? True 'GTA' is 3 I think. Brampton, Mississauga, and Oshawa. There are others that would be considered Leafs cities. Guelph, Kitchener, Barrie, maybe Peterborough and Belleville.

As for Brampton and Mississauga, they only joined the OHL, simultaneously btw, in 1999 as expansion teams. Not a lot of tradition there.

Hamilton has it's own AHL team, so nobody from there is going to see the Junior Leafs. But even with all that, and the fact that they play downtown on the waterfront (not the prime place for the hockey minded in Toronto, btw), they still get almost 5000 fans a game... when those fans aren't too busy playing hockey or watching their kids at their hockey games.

and oh yeah.... which AHL team plays out of the Twin cities that you must be referring to when you claim such great support?


Toronto may be the self proclaimed centre of the universe, and for that we can all hate the city and its influence on TSN's SportsCentre. I certainly do. But I would never question whether or not the GTA is a hockey centre.

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02-02-2012, 10:47 AM
  #150
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Your right, this is business, and that is precisely why the NHL has a need for Canadian franchises. If you choose not to tap the markets that are available, someone else will make a go of it. A recreated WHA with teams in Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, and Quebec City, plus a sprinkling of American teams would mean a rival league competing for players and challenging the NHL's dominance as the top league in the planet.

The late 70s Winnipeg Jets would have been a formidable opponent for any NHL club at the time. It isn't a stretch to think such a thing could happen again should the league retract to only have 4 teams in Canada.

So, yes, it is an obligation to have several teams in Canadian markets. Combined with the historical and cultural ties the NHL has within Canada, it is always going to have more teams in Canadian markets than its rivals (NBA/MLB/NFL), and thus always have less American teams. If someone has a problem with that, I'd suggest they choose another sport to watch.
So a smaller league that would shut down in ten years, again. Like I said the NHL is not a charity. The NHL is not in Winnipeg becaus of obligation. It's there because it makes sense right now. In the late 1990's we almost lost all the prairie teams. There was not a significant drop in viewership. A new league is a fantasy and would collaspe, remember the 2004 WHA? Its not about nationalism its about money. If it does not, then they wont be there. I am not about to claim a league with its main office in NYC as Canadian. And if it is, it is a very poor job Maybe move the head office back to Toronto and then we'll talk. Maybe the NHLPA should also speak up as, well, but they don't care at all.

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