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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part II

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02-02-2012, 04:08 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
With nervous prayers behind that part of it. That, or Bettman told them, in secret, that QC is only an absolute last resort, instead of the 1st choice most Canadians are trying to sell it as.
Now you're reaching.

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02-02-2012, 04:11 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
so your argument is no one watches minor hockey in toronto because they're all playing it. Interesting.

Agreed with blueandgold guy to an extent. I would say the fanbase is snobbish, unless its perceived "the best" it won't get attendance. Hence CFL, Minor league hockey, dini petty studio audience, etc.
Montreal and Vancouver have also had CFL problems. But yes thats the way it is out in Ontario. We want the best and we have our major sport (hockey). Same with NYC and Chicago and Baseball.

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02-02-2012, 04:12 PM
  #178
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Have to agree there. htpwn.


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02-02-2012, 04:32 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Now you're reaching.
No, I just don't see why NBC would sign something like that, with zero concerns. Again, not to say that they weren't aware of the possibility, but, to say that they hope that doesn't happens is fair to say.
Kind of the same thing for the golf coverage, in the US, wishing they could have a do over due to Tiger troubles. When they signed those contracts, Tiger was still the consistent winner.

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02-02-2012, 04:59 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
r

No, I just don't see why NBC would sign something like that, with zero concerns. Again, not to say that they weren't aware of the possibility, but, to say that they hope that doesn't happens is fair to say.
Kind of the same thing for the golf coverage, in the US, wishing they could have a do over due to Tiger troubles. When they signed those contracts, Tiger was still the consistent winner.
Because NBC knew the viewership in Phoenix was negligeable to begin with.

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02-02-2012, 05:30 PM
  #181
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I think that this could be a setback for Quebec getting the Coyotes for next year, good news for Seattle and ok news for Phoenix.
This article is 5 days old.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...aps-southeast/

While I know Boise State is playing the in Big East next year and the Kings played in the same division as the Canadiens back in the 70's, I'd be shocked if the NHLPA, agreed to have Quebec in the same division as LA/DFW/SJ and Anaheim. That would make the trips the Jets take to/from FL/TB/CAR and DC seem like a short bus ride.
Quebec's hope around this is, that, minds change (about realignment next year).


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02-02-2012, 05:33 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
I think that this could be a blow for Quebec getting the Coyotes for next year, good news for Seattle and ok news for Phoenix.
This article is 5 days old.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...aps-southeast/

While I know Boise State is playing the in Big East next year and the Kings played in the same division as the Canadiens back in the 70's, I'd be shocked if the NHLPA, agreed to have Quebec in the same division as LA/DFW/SJ and Anaheim. That would make the trips the Jets take to/from FL/TB/CAR and DC seem like a short bus ride.
Quebec's hope around this is, that, minds change (about realignment next year).
Realignment as it was proposed, isn't being implemented and Glendale's situation has nothing to do w/ that.

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02-02-2012, 05:35 PM
  #183
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I'm sold. We don't need yet another team in Canada. The NHL's plan is to try and grow the sport in the United States, not to expose even less of it.

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02-02-2012, 05:43 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Realignment as it was proposed, isn't being implemented and Glendale's situation has nothing to do w/ that.
I'd see that as almost impossible, to do a fair schedule, if Quebec is in the Pacific division....but I digress. The league, if QC is the destination for the Coyotes, will probably "bribe" the NHLPA with something, to get them to agree to realignment.
Again, that would put the new QC team and the other Pacific teams at a competitive disadvantage, if there was no realignment and the Coyotes moved to QC.

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02-02-2012, 05:45 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
I think that this could be a setback for Quebec getting the Coyotes for next year, good news for Seattle and ok news for Phoenix.
This article is 5 days old.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...aps-southeast/

While I know Boise State is playing the in Big East next year and the Kings played in the same division as the Canadiens back in the 70's, I'd be shocked if the NHLPA, agreed to have Quebec in the same division as LA/DFW/SJ and Anaheim. That would make the trips the Jets take to/from FL/TB/CAR and DC seem like a short bus ride.
Quebec's hope around this is, that, minds change (about realignment next year).
beenhereandthere,
I admire you. You are the biggest supporter and advocate for Seattle getting a team anywhere. Very sincere in your feelings and thoughts. It's wonderful.

Being more of a cynic, I can't come to the same conclusion as you about this 'news.' The League is denying that the Phoenix franchise is moving. So, to my cynical mind, I say, it makes total sense that they aren't saying anything more about realignment. If the Coyotes move, the NHL BoG will deal with the PA about alignment, if necessary, after it is done. I would be highly doubtful that realignment holds any clues about the Phoenix situation.

But, I do admire your glasses. They are very powerful. They can make any news positive in light of your hope that Seattle gets a team.


Last edited by MNNumbers: 02-02-2012 at 05:48 PM. Reason: fix typo
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Old
02-02-2012, 05:47 PM
  #186
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And, perhaps one other factor. Let's say PHX moves to QC in an emergency. I don't think it would be that hard to swap Winnipeg and QC. So, at least temporarily, until the rest is solved, QC plays in the Southeast, and Winnipeg in the PAC. Not ideal, but not as bad as could be, either.

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02-02-2012, 06:17 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
And, perhaps one other factor. Let's say PHX moves to QC in an emergency. I don't think it would be that hard to swap Winnipeg and QC. So, at least temporarily, until the rest is solved, QC plays in the Southeast, and Winnipeg in the PAC. Not ideal, but not as bad as could be, either.
You're missing my point, or didn't even bother to read my posts....
I said that IF the NHLPA and the league have accepted no realignment next year, it would take a near miracle, for the NHLPA and the other owners to agree to keep the divisions the way there are now if Quebec moved.
I even said, that that could be something that could be taken care of by the league making a concession, for the NHLPA's ok if they had to move Quebec, ok?

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02-02-2012, 06:20 PM
  #188
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it would take a near miracle, for the NHLPA and the other owners to agree to keep the divisions the way there are now if Quebec moved.
You mean like when Atlanta moved to Winnipeg?

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02-02-2012, 06:22 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by throatguzzler View Post
We don't need yet another team in Canada. The NHL's plan is to try and grow the sport in the United States, not to expose even less of it.
I don't know where this "yet another team in Canada" crap comes from. There were only 14 US teams 20 years ago - that gradually built up to 24 teams while Canada lost 1 and now with Winnipeg its 23-7. A 22-8 split really that hard to stomach?

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02-02-2012, 06:30 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by matCH penalty View Post
You mean like when Atlanta moved to Winnipeg?
Come on dude, really?
Miami to Winnipeg...about 1800 miles (bad enough).
Quebec to San Jose...3100 or more.

I'm tired of this league looking backwater and getting ripped by the media. There's no way Selig (an example) would allow the A's to move to North Carolina and keep them in the AL West.
Having Quebec in the Pacific Division = more red meat for the US haters.
If they change their mind and approve realignment after a possible QC move....all is well.


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02-02-2012, 10:00 PM
  #191
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it will be a swap Quebec - Winnipeg

Its why the league refuse to move Colombus or Detroit

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02-03-2012, 12:14 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Just a guess, but maybe the "Toronto a hockey town?" comment is in reference to Toronto's mediocre support for the various OHL teams in the city not to mention the downright ambivalance towards the Marlies. Obviously the Leafs are the flagship franchise in the NHL when it comes to revenue, but their support of lower levels of hockey leave something to be desired.

Toronto, an NHL town or Leafs town?? Sure, but probably not a hockey town.

The best example of a hockey town I can think of at this moment would be the Twin Cities. Fantastic support at all levels.
Yeah, and that's why the GTHL is considered one of the best development leagues in the world. That's why high schools across the GTA have their own teams and the competition is fierce.

Sure, Toronto is a massive city that is used to professional sports. A smaller town like Hamilton can appreciate the minor leagues more because they have never experienced professional sports.

But if you want to play hockey, you come to Toronto - the best resources are available. The city has produced the highest number of hockey players, period. The minor leagues are top notch, and though viewership and attendance isn't the best (see the above re: pro sports towns and minor league sports towns), they are all well supported.

It's all about tradition. The Twin Cities had high school and college hockey before professional hockey; in Toronto, the Leafs established themselves very early on. Just like how in some areas of the US college football > pro football, whereas in other areas it's the reverse. Moreover, Toronto's fanbase is a bit snobbish that way.

Don't get me wrong... Minnesota as a state is amazing for hockey. It is a hockey mad state. And Minneapolis / St. Paul is the center of all that.

But Toronto isn't a hockey town? pshh.


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02-03-2012, 12:55 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
r

No, I just don't see why NBC would sign something like that, with zero concerns. Again, not to say that they weren't aware of the possibility, but, to say that they hope that doesn't happens is fair to say.
Kind of the same thing for the golf coverage, in the US, wishing they could have a do over due to Tiger troubles. When they signed those contracts, Tiger was still the consistent winner.
Of course NBC would love the Coyotes to move to Seattle, but that can only happen if the city is a viable home for the franchise. That means an arena deal, something that has yet to be done.

If it doesn't get done in a matter of months, the NHL will have no choice to look at the only city with all its ducks in a row: Quebec City. It is a possibility that NBC was well aware of when they signed their TV deal and one that is likely already accounted for. NBC will simply broadcast two of the 22 other US-based teams, or alternatively, just keep showing the Penguins and Capitals.

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02-03-2012, 02:22 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Bob1321 View Post
it will be a swap Quebec - Winnipeg

Its why the league refuse to move Colombus or Detroit
Exactly. If the Coyotes move to QC and if there is no realignment at all, QC would likely take Winnipeg's place in the Southeast division and Winnipeg would take Phoenix's spot in the Pacific. Works fine for one season or whatever. A team won't be granted to Seattle over QC based on such issue anyway. End of story.

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02-03-2012, 02:27 AM
  #195
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I wonder what the Canucks' ownership's stance is on a potential Seattle NHL franchise.

as of right now, it's majority Canucks fans there, with a Seattle franchise? A significant portion will be converted instantly, with an additional portion that will convert over time.

That's a lot of merchandising revenue lost for the Canuck's ownership.

On the other hand, it will create a dynamic rivalry instantly.

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02-03-2012, 02:48 AM
  #196
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I know it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but the Thunderbirds, and the Silvertips for that matter, would be fine. They're both pretty far out of downtown Seattle anyway that while they're attendance may take a bit of a hit, it won't cause them to go bankrupt or seek a relocation.

And while I'm on the subject of junior hockey, after seeing the Toronto/Minnesota thing, high school hockey championships sell out the Xcel Engery Center, yet the GTA couldn't even sell out the 2011 Memorial Cup final in a 5600 seat arena featuring the home team. So yeah, Toronto = Leafs town.


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02-03-2012, 07:50 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by matCH penalty View Post
You mean like when Atlanta moved to Winnipeg?
It would depend when the relocation was made official. Once the schedule has been completed, the League isn't about to change it. Now if your question is about the League deciding to relocate the Coyotes to Seattle because having Quebec City play in the Pacific Division for a Season would be too extreme... No way the League would decide a relocation option based on that!

That said, it would be damn odd having Quebec City in the Pacific Division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob1321 View Post
it will be a swap Quebec - Winnipeg
That's a solution that just might fly, but again trying to fit in even that change after next Season's schedule has already been finalized would be likely a no-go.

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02-03-2012, 07:55 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
I wonder what the Canucks' ownership's stance is on a potential Seattle NHL franchise.

as of right now, it's majority Canucks fans there, with a Seattle franchise? A significant portion will be converted instantly, with an additional portion that will convert over time.

That's a lot of merchandising revenue lost for the Canuck's ownership.

On the other hand, it will create a dynamic rivalry instantly.
I Wonder if the Canucks would finally agree to be part of the Pacific Division with Seattle there, and resolve a lot of the current alignment issues. Just making that change would fix several issues in the 6-Division alignment.

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02-03-2012, 11:21 AM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAK View Post
I wonder what the Canucks' ownership's stance is on a potential Seattle NHL franchise.

as of right now, it's majority Canucks fans there, with a Seattle franchise? A significant portion will be converted instantly, with an additional portion that will convert over time.

That's a lot of merchandising revenue lost for the Canuck's ownership.

On the other hand, it will create a dynamic rivalry instantly.
The Canucks are the most followed and popular team around here, but it isn't as heavy as it may appear. In fact, one could argue that the Red Wings, are almost as popular in the Seattle/Tacoma area (lot of MI people live out this way).
That being said, while the NHL itself doesn't have a great or even good following out here (I'd say ok following though), well, neither did MLS before it came to Seattle.
The rest, with MLS, in Seattle, is history.

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02-03-2012, 11:23 AM
  #200
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Now if your question is about the League deciding to relocate the Coyotes to Seattle because having Quebec City play in the Pacific Division for a Season would be too extreme... No way the League would decide a relocation option based on that!
Indeed, that was my point. That Seattle could play in the Pacific Division is not a major motivator to accept Seattle over Quebec. There's plenty of good reasons why Seattle might work, but this isn't one of them.

Quote:
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That said, it would be damn odd having Quebec City in the Pacific Division.
Yeah, it really would. But it'd be kinda cool to see Nordiques 1.0 play Nordiques 2.0 4 times.

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