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Old
03-17-2012, 07:26 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Talk about piling on... jeepers, add Sam and we have a hat trick!

I have read all the stuff about Johnny for weeks and simply don't see (games I have seen him play) any reason to get overly excited yet, as I said he's ok but the guy is only 21 compared to Nikitin who is 25...

I agree with the following:

FLAWS: Is still learning the nuances of the pro game. Needs to add more strength in order to better handle big forwards. Needs to keep working on his defensive consistency with regard to his decision-making.
Rob - you asked the question - did you think no one was going to answer it? I realize I answered he wrong one (in jest, at your wording) but you said yourself you've been reading the pluses for Johnny Moore - what more can be added?

I'm not going to compare Moore and Nikitin, because we don't have to. IMO both project to the CBJ roster next season. That Moore is a young guy who CBJ drafted and is on track developmentally and projects (IMO) as a #2 is good enough for me, even if he isn't a #2 right now.

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03-18-2012, 09:49 AM
  #327
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Interesting article in Puck Daddy about Mason and his pads.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...cM90fm1cl7vLYF

EDIT: I see where this topic was discussed some earlier in this thread when the Dispatch put out the info. This is Puck Daddy's take on it.


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03-18-2012, 09:49 PM
  #328
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Mason has been much better as of late. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

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03-18-2012, 09:52 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
Mason has been much better as of late. Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Seems like ever since he got those new and bigger pads, he's playing solid. With that said, do you give him another chance next season or is it to little, to late and time to get a new goalie? Or do we somehow go after another starter for a deeent price and have the new goalie and Mason fight it out(like what Minny did with Roloson and Fernadez)?

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03-18-2012, 09:55 PM
  #330
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Or do we somehow go after another starter for a deeent price and have the new goalie and Mason fight it out(like what Minny did with Roloson and Fernadez)?
Yes. Maybe.

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03-18-2012, 09:57 PM
  #331
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Give Mason another chance? We've been down that road way to much, it's time to move on, I don't care if he shuts out the next 5 opponents, his ship has sailed. Keep him as the backup for next year to see if he is indeed better? Okay, but rely on him again like this season, last season, the season before, nope.

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03-18-2012, 10:17 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
Give Mason another chance? We've been down that road way to much, it's time to move on, I don't care if he shuts out the next 5 opponents, his ship has sailed. Keep him as the backup for next year to see if he is indeed better? Okay, but rely on him again like this season, last season, the season before, nope.
Agreed. Get a number one goalie, and keep Mase around as a back-up. That might actually do more good for his career than anything.

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03-18-2012, 10:24 PM
  #333
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I am on board to keeping him as a backup and signing a Vokoun like goalie who we could get for cheap while Mason could replace if he struggled, and likewise.

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03-19-2012, 12:52 AM
  #334
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Mason this, Mason that... the day he is off the CBJ roster will be a victory!

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03-19-2012, 06:13 AM
  #335
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Talk about mixed emotions. The guy has sucked for the past 3 seasons. Now he shows some signs of promise, once again. maybe it is the pads. It has to be the pads.

Beef up the defense a bit so that the Edler-esque attempts are minimized and maybe, just maybe he could be saved. On the other hand, maybe not.

He is what? 23? Not exactly an aged veteran.Then again, one can think about Andrew Raycroft and say adios Steve.

Let him go to a team that plays good defense and he possibly becomes a Venzina candidate again; he stays and the curse of the Jackets sends him into oblivion.

Today, I say wtf, sign a healthier, more stable 2nd goalie to mentor him and provide an acceptable alternative, strengthen the D a bit and see what happens next year. It's not like the team is going to miraculously challenge for the Cup next year anyway. Tomorrow I reserve the right to change my mind.

Of course, should Boston lose its marbles and offers Rask in a deal for Nash I'd have to reconsider.

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03-19-2012, 06:32 AM
  #336
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The size of one's pads doesn't make a difference when you're constantly sliding out of position and out of control. I would actually watch to see if that problem creeps back into his game by the end of the season. Larger pads are a little more awkward and a little heavier, making it tougher to move around until you get a really good feel for them. As Mase's legs adjust to the extra weight he very well could be back to his old form.

Hope I'm wrong, but I'll need to see the rest of the season before my skepticism is removed. Honestly even if he plays lights out, 10 games at the end of a season with no pressure doesn't really say much.

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03-19-2012, 06:46 AM
  #337
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The size of one's pads doesn't make a difference when you're constantly sliding out of position and out of control. I would actually watch to see if that problem creeps back into his game by the end of the season. Larger pads are a little more awkward and a little heavier, making it tougher to move around until you get a really good feel for them. As Mase's legs adjust to the extra weight he very well could be back to his old form.

Hope I'm wrong, but I'll need to see the rest of the season before my skepticism is removed. Honestly even if he plays lights out, 10 games at the end of a season with no pressure doesn't really say much.
If, and its a big if, he was "afraid" of the puck from getting hit so many times,and the larger pucks help his pysche, maybe he doesn't move as much? I'm not sure but confidence is a big part of a good performance.

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03-19-2012, 06:47 AM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Mason this, Mason that... the day he is off the CBJ roster will be a victory!
I am not going to shed a tear if Mason is turned loose, but if this improvement is for real (time will tell) then that means we need to find one goalie in the off-season, not two. In my mind one is doable, while two is a much tougher proposition.

Sanford is proving to be quite fragile, and we have nothing in the pipe-line unless Dex heals, and shows that he belongs. Plus, Sanford has very much come back down to earth in the last month or so.

This team needs so many pieces, that being able to keep Steve as a back-up allows other priorities to be focused on.

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03-19-2012, 09:22 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
If, and its a big if, he was "afraid" of the puck from getting hit so many times,and the larger pucks help his pysche, maybe he doesn't move as much? I'm not sure but confidence is a big part of a good performance.
My guess is that movement due to being afraid of the puck has more to do with how you angle your body rather than overplaying your sliding from side to side.

Granted my experience in goalie pads is limited to about 2 months of local drop ins 1-2 times a week. I will say that I do resonate with his being afraid of getting hurt. As I was learning the basics of movement and positioning in pads I thought I was invincible, so I was standing tall challenging every shot. One session I took a high hard shot to the collarbone [no idea how it snuck past both the chest protector and the dangling throat guard] and that really shook me up. Honestly, I don't think I was ever quite the same after that. I realized that the guys with big shots actually COULD hurt me, and hurt me BADLY. Granted I'm not getting paid millions to stop those shots, but it's hard to play a position with confidence when you don't have confidence in your gear.

I always seemed to get stung in the arms too. Those were annoying.

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03-19-2012, 10:06 AM
  #340
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He could win out this season and I'd still have him hit the bricks. When will the organization come to the conclusion that hanging on to these young players that have shown a lot then nothing coming close to it since is good for the future? Or at least admit that the attempt to tie them up a la 90's Indians was a futile effort?

Development in this organization sucks. Simply holding on to your young pieces so they can continue to work within a flawed developmental system is ridiculous.

Hopefully, his play since just before the trade deadline has opened a few eyes and hopefully a few mouths and ears to discuss moving him for something at this point. Not sure what we'd be able to land for him, but going into another season is worse than a "dice roll" that Howson could, at best convince me that it would be.

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03-19-2012, 10:57 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
I am not going to shed a tear if Mason is turned loose, but if this improvement is for real (time will tell) then that means we need to find one goalie in the off-season, not two. In my mind one is doable, while two is a much tougher proposition.

Sanford is proving to be quite fragile, and we have nothing in the pipe-line unless Dex heals, and shows that he belongs. Plus, Sanford has very much come back down to earth in the last month or so.

This team needs so many pieces, that being able to keep Steve as a back-up allows other priorities to be focused on.
You make a lot of sense, Doc, but, like KBW, many have been badly stung by the constant hope that Mason will return to rookie form. If, perhaps, Patrick took over as GM and thought Mase had showed enough to stick around behind a true #1 tender, I might buy in. Not if the move is by Howson, though, his misjudgment in this area is what got us into the current mess.

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03-19-2012, 11:10 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
He could win out this season and I'd still have him hit the bricks. When will the organization come to the conclusion that hanging on to these young players that have shown a lot then nothing coming close to it since is good for the future? Or at least admit that the attempt to tie them up a la 90's Indians was a futile effort?

Development in this organization sucks. Simply holding on to your young pieces so they can continue to work within a flawed developmental system is ridiculous.

Hopefully, his play since just before the trade deadline has opened a few eyes and hopefully a few mouths and ears to discuss moving him for something at this point. Not sure what we'd be able to land for him, but going into another season is worse than a "dice roll" that Howson could, at best convince me that it would be.
I don't disagree with you, and with every fabric of my being I do not want Mason here as the starter next season.

Having said that, there is every possibility that Mason's career could be salvaged, but in the right way. I see no reason that it can't be here. I don't buy the belief that only a change of scenery will help him out.

First of all the kid is only 23. How many goalies in this league have not been NHL caliber until later into their 20's and in some cases early 30's? How many goalies have been asked to thrive with as pathetic of a defense as has been put in front of Mason?

Mason is not blameless, as he has clearly been a part of the problem. The question now is whether his late season improvement is for real. Obviously Clark has taught Steve how to be more positionally sound, and has improved upon the gear that he wears. We have also seen a dramatic improvement in his one on one play in shoot-outs.

I think the kid might just deserve another chance if this improvement continues. It would really be unfair to him to merely write him off if his problems were truly of a fixable technical issue.

Like I said, make him the back-up, and continue the work of Clark along with bringing in a solid number one who can mentor him.

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03-19-2012, 11:45 AM
  #343
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I don't think we'll ever see "Rookie Season" Mason again, but I think its possible he tops out as a serviceable starter, top 15-20 in the league in stats for a hanful of years before he inevitably moves into a "veteran backup" type of role, but I disagree with Doc that it can be here.

How much more patience, honestly, would the fanbase have for this situation? Its not looking like a regime change will happen until next season at the earliest. Probably the only other person in this organization that comes close to the amount of ire directed at Priest and Howson is Mason. This is the situation as I see it. Mason is close to being, basically, a reclamation project. For an organization that Bulked at paying for a proven backup goaltender this past offseason, it should and would be a hard sell to sell Mason as the backup as anything other than what it appears to be: That the team couldn't move him and is stuck with him and rather than paying him in go to Springfield, they kept him up here.

I just think there's too many strikes against Mason already for him to effectively recover for the long term in Columbus.

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03-19-2012, 02:12 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
I am not going to shed a tear if Mason is turned loose, but if this improvement is for real (time will tell) then that means we need to find one goalie in the off-season, not two. In my mind one is doable, while two is a much tougher proposition.

Sanford is proving to be quite fragile, and we have nothing in the pipe-line unless Dex heals, and shows that he belongs. Plus, Sanford has very much come back down to earth in the last month or so.

This team needs so many pieces, that being able to keep Steve as a back-up allows other priorities to be focused on.
We need at least two regardless. if they move Mason it's three. There is no starter in the NHL, no backup in the NHL and no starter in the AHL that is signed by Columbus. If you keep Mason, that would mean you likely filled one of the two open NHL slots but you still need two goaltenders at a minimum. Just look at this year with injuries. We have no depth and that is going to get worse when Sanford's contract runs out on June 30th.

Corbiel - likely to be signed and play in AHL or ECHL next year
York - signed to ELC. Likely to play in AHL or ECHL next year
Mason - signed - NHL or bought out is my guess (less likely bought out given our situation and his recent improved play.

That leaves two openings at a minimimum. Granted that doesn't mean you get 2 studs but they could opt for Dex on a 2 way to play in the AHL (doubtful), they could re-sign Sanford which would give you, potentially, the same tandem you have this year (unlikely - and he probably woulf scoff at a two way but who knows). I think you'll see a trade for one of the younger available goaltenders and the signing of an experienced vet to allow three of them to compete in camp. Best two stay!

I wouldn't mind Vokoun or Biron paired with Lundback or Bachman or Schneider

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03-19-2012, 02:21 PM
  #345
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You make a lot of sense, Doc, but, like KBW, many have been badly stung by the constant hope that Mason will return to rookie form. If, perhaps, Patrick took over as GM and thought Mase had showed enough to stick around behind a true #1 tender, I might buy in. Not if the move is by Howson, though, his misjudgment in this area is what got us into the current mess.
Pete, normally I agree with you but I have issue with thinking that if Patrick thinks Mase has shown enough you keep him. Mason is the same player under Patrick as he is under Howson in my opinion. Right now the games don't matter so there is less impact between the ears for Mason right now. I don't know if you can truly get a gauge of how he may play next year and the who makes the decision is simply the genious of the fall guy. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Mason has been a mess between the ears and maybe that will click at some point - maybe it has. If you go into next year relying on him as the starter I think you've done a disservice to the players, the club and the fans.

Don't want to buy him out? Fine, but don't make the same mistake we have the past two years with having someone that can actually be a #1 available and a spare that really puts the pressure on Mason. Again, my only issue is your point that if Howson does this or Patrick does that. He's the same player I just think whomever the GM ends up being will be the benefactor of good or bad.

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03-19-2012, 02:29 PM
  #346
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Mason this, Mason that... the day he is off the CBJ roster will be a victory!
I can't agree more. The Mason project is done.

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03-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #347
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Talk about mixed emotions. The guy has sucked for the past 3 seasons. Now he shows some signs of promise, once again. maybe it is the pads. It has to be the pads.

Beef up the defense a bit so that the Edler-esque attempts are minimized and maybe, just maybe he could be saved. On the other hand, maybe not.

He is what? 23? Not exactly an aged veteran.Then again, one can think about Andrew Raycroft and say adios Steve.

Let him go to a team that plays good defense and he possibly becomes a Venzina candidate again; he stays and the curse of the Jackets sends him into oblivion.

Today, I say wtf, sign a healthier, more stable 2nd goalie to mentor him and provide an acceptable alternative, strengthen the D a bit and see what happens next year. It's not like the team is going to miraculously challenge for the Cup next year anyway. Tomorrow I reserve the right to change my mind.

Of course, should Boston lose its marbles and offers Rask in a deal for Nash I'd have to reconsider.
I think this is the course of action I'd take-IF his current level of play continues for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't take issue with signing Sanford as a back up again-I think he's done just fine.

I was in the dump Mason camp, but his performance since February 11th has caused me to reconsider. It's not inconceivable that the positioning adjustment along with the new pads has solved his issues. There may be something else as well which has changed in Mason's equation, but in any case the change in results has been dramatic. Given the organization's general ineptitude, it's not out of the realm of reasonable to assume that it took forever and a day to figure out what a good organization could determine in a month.

But, as EpsenK allows himself the right to change his mind tomorrow, I do as well

Here are Mason's numbers of late:

Since Feb 11: 8W 4L 1 OTL......save percentage 92.2 ...2.69 GAA

Since Feb 19 6W 2L.......save percentage 92.8.....2.52 GAA

These numbers are hardly Vezina numbers, but probably aren't much different than one could realistically expect for any competent goalie playing for the Jackets this season.

Can Umberger be fitted for new pads?

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03-19-2012, 02:39 PM
  #348
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Internal cap is something the powers that be will decide. However, if we trade Nash (I say we should), I can't believe we'll be anywhere close to our current cap hit. If that is the case, Mason at $2.8 mil/yr. would be too pricey a backup. What would a competent backup cost, $1 mil/yr? Add to that the approx. $1m we would have to pay to Mason in a buyout, if there is not the CBA forgiveness rule that has been discussed elsewhere. So in that scenerio it would be an $800,000 decision and that's for the backup only...

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03-19-2012, 03:49 PM
  #349
pete goegan
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Pete, normally I agree with you but I have issue with thinking that if Patrick thinks Mase has shown enough you keep him. Mason is the same player under Patrick as he is under Howson in my opinion. Right now the games don't matter so there is less impact between the ears for Mason right now. I don't know if you can truly get a gauge of how he may play next year and the who makes the decision is simply the genious of the fall guy. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Mason has been a mess between the ears and maybe that will click at some point - maybe it has. If you go into next year relying on him as the starter I think you've done a disservice to the players, the club and the fans.

Don't want to buy him out? Fine, but don't make the same mistake we have the past two years with having someone that can actually be a #1 available and a spare that really puts the pressure on Mason. Again, my only issue is your point that if Howson does this or Patrick does that. He's the same player I just think whomever the GM ends up being will be the benefactor of good or bad.
I think you misunderstood, 22, we're both saying the same thing: Mason cannot be counted on as next year's starter. What I said is that, if Patrick saw enough in his recent performance to give him a shot at the backup spot, I might trust his judgement. If it was Howson, he has already lost my confidence in his opinion. Certainly the performance is the same, it's the judge and his evaluative ability that differs.

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03-19-2012, 04:25 PM
  #350
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Rask makes $1.5m
Schneider $900k
Lindback $737,500

Mason as a backup at $2.8m?

Granted at least one of those guys is going to get a big bump next year, but it won't be to backup.

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