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NHL Trade Deadline pt 2 - (Feb 27th at 2 PM CST)

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02-07-2012, 09:20 AM
  #151
PredsV82
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
No excuses David. You told us before free agency what the team needs were. You said after free agency that the cost was to prohibitive, and the needs would be addressed in season. You knew the cost would be high irregardless. The trade deadline is where the WORST deals are made every year.

No more complaining. Results are all that matters.
so, four points out of the best record in the NHL counts for..???

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02-07-2012, 09:26 AM
  #152
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so, four points out of the best record in the NHL counts for..???
Right. I mean, is it a given Poile makes any move at all? Look at the team's record and from where he's at. I hope he does at least something to improve the team, but I dont think it's an automatic he makes any trades. Bothing was done in the summer either...

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02-07-2012, 09:32 AM
  #153
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so, four points out of the best record in the NHL counts for..???
it counts for nothing if you get bounced in the first or second round. all of the feel good stories, all of the comebacks mean nothing if the result, in the end, isn't different than in years passed.

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02-07-2012, 09:34 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by pekkaslap View Post
Right. I mean, is it a given Poile makes any move at all? Look at the team's record and from where he's at. I hope he does at least something to improve the team, but I dont think it's an automatic he makes any trades. Bothing was done in the summer either...
I cant see him not making a trade for at least a defenseman, but what everyone will wring their hands over is if he doesnt trade for a big name forward.

like I said before, I think poile HAS to trade,(and he should) but I will only be upset if a true top forward is traded for something we could have easily afforded...

the other thing to take from the poile interview is dont get your hopes up for a lot of early deals as sellers probably will hold out as long as possible to raise the prices..

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02-07-2012, 09:42 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I cant see him not making a trade for at least a defenseman, but what everyone will wring their hands over is if he doesnt trade for a big name forward.

like I said before, I think poile HAS to trade,(and he should) but I will only be upset if a true top forward is traded for something we could have easily afforded...

the other thing to take from the poile interview is dont get your hopes up for a lot of early deals as sellers probably will hold out as long as possible to raise the prices..
unfortunately, the early deals [ala sullivan and fisher] are where the real impact deals occur that arent a fleecing by the seller.

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02-07-2012, 09:52 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
No excuses David. You told us before free agency what the team needs were. You said after free agency that the cost was to prohibitive, and the needs would be addressed in season. You knew the cost would be high irregardless. The trade deadline is where the WORST deals are made every year.

No more complaining. Results are all that matters.
Well, he said the team would be improved, and I'd dare say 4 points off the league lead is improved. I'd like an FA acquisition, too, but to me results are on the ice, not acquiring some player.

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02-07-2012, 09:59 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
Well, he said the team would be improved, and I'd dare say 4 points off the league lead is improved. I'd like an FA acquisition, too, but to me results are on the ice, not acquiring some player.
I'm with you.

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02-07-2012, 10:04 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
so, four points out of the best record in the NHL counts for..???
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekkaslap View Post
Right. I mean, is it a given Poile makes any move at all? Look at the team's record and from where he's at. I hope he does at least something to improve the team, but I dont think it's an automatic he makes any trades. Bothing was done in the summer either...
I'm just tired of the excuses. David Poile is a master hedger. He preaches patience, but this occasionally turns into roster and decision paralysis. Many times this is exactly the right thing. Occasionally, it is not.

I like this current Predators team. I think Poile's comments state the obvious. This is not a beneficial market. BUT. You have to know coming into the season that if your strategy to improve the team relies on who is a seller at the trade deadline, you are going to be held at gunpoint by the current state of affairs.

My point is merely this: the time for excuses is past, and the time for results are here. Poile's moves (or lack thereof) at this deadline and off-season should ultimately be judged by our playoff success (or lack thereof). Period. If he feels like we do not need to make a move or the cost is too high, so be it. If this decision proves to be the right decision in the playoffs, excellent. If it doesn't, he deserves 100% full criticism IMO.

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02-07-2012, 10:07 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I'm just tired of the excuses. David Poile is a master hedger. He preaches patience, but this occasionally turns into roster and decision paralysis. Many times this is exactly the right thing. Occasionally, it is not.

I like this current Predators team. I think Poile's comments state the obvious. This is not a beneficial market. BUT. You have to know coming into the season that if your strategy to improve the team relies on who is a seller at the trade deadline, that it is a flawed strategy.

My point is merely this: the time for excuses is past, and the time for results are here. Poile's moves (or lack thereof) at this deadline and off-season should ultimately be judged by our playoff success (or lack thereof). Period. If he feels like we do not need to make a move or the cost is too high, so be it. If this decision proves to be the right decision in the playoffs, excellent. If it doesn't, he deserves 100% full criticism IMO.
Drilled it, time to put up or shut up

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02-07-2012, 10:20 AM
  #160
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Guess the real question is how much would we be willing to overspend?

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02-07-2012, 10:28 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Preds311 View Post
Guess the real question is how much would we be willing to overspend?
I think you have to go into it with the mindset that no player is unmovable, in the right deal. I think that may be where Poile has come up a little short in the past. He likes to say, after drafting another goaltender or defenseman or two way forward high, "Well, a pick or prospect is an asset. Maybe someday we turn these assets into another in an area we're weaker." But when the time comes, he gets gunshy. Some of our fans applaud that, but if we're to assume Suter and Weber are going to stay--there's not even room for all of the defensive prospects we have. So when a GM comes calling for Blum or even Ellis, and has a forward that may not even be a rental--does Poile have the ability to do what he hasn't been able to in the past...let go of his Precious without fear of buyers' remorse?

We're set up in a better position than a lot of other teams in the west, because we're deep at two positions that most teams aren't: goaltending and defense. We have several prospects\players that teams would kill to get...and there should be no available player that we don't at least have the assets to acquire. Like some have said...if the price is unreasonable, what can you do...but there have been deals come across over the past few seasons that it was hard not to think we could have put a better offer together. Those are the hardest to swallow.

Anyway...what do you guys think of Adrian Aucoin as a defensive possibility? Has a nice offensive element to his game, but his real value is his physicality and vet leadership. Might not be as expensive to land as some of the others.

Wouldn't mind landing Visnovsky, either. His caphit is high(5.5) but he makes 3 million real dollars next year, and provides a little bit of insurance in the event Suter leaves.

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02-07-2012, 10:28 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Preds311 View Post
Guess the real question is how much would we be willing to overspend?
not just that but how much do we sabatoge next year for this year

I still firmly believe that next year is the year this franchise has been building toward ever since we got the new owners.

I have no problem trading multiple assets if it guarantees Suter and Weber re-sign and we still have most of our supporting cast for next year.

But I also have no problem trading for small rental pieces and letting that ride this year and making more moves this summer.

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02-07-2012, 10:30 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
not just that but how much do we sabatoge next year for this year

I still firmly believe that next year is the year this franchise has been building toward ever since we got the new owners.

I have no problem trading multiple assets if it guarantees Suter and Weber re-sign and we still have most of our supporting cast for next year.

But I also have no problem trading for small rental pieces and letting that ride this year and making more moves this summer.
why next year instead of this one? Because Colin Wilson and Craig Smith will be a year older? I just don't see them making some exponential leap forward in that time. I think trying to put your chips on next year is risky, because that strategy goes right out the window if your first pairing is Weber\Carle instead of Weber\Suter.

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02-07-2012, 10:42 AM
  #164
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why next year instead of this one? Because Colin Wilson and Craig Smith will be a year older? I just don't see them making some exponential leap forward in that time. I think trying to put your chips on next year is risky, because that strategy goes right out the window if your first pairing is Weber\Carle instead of Weber\Suter.
next year because of Ellis and Josi not being rookies, Wilson maturing, Smith maturing, and most importantly I think Rads will be back next year.

Plus I still believe Poile intends to make a run at Parise this summer... whather he gets him or not is another matter...

remember, i wouldnt mind a deal this year, especially for an asset, I just wouldnt wreck next year for a rental

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02-07-2012, 11:08 AM
  #165
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Another facet, who is truly available?

I know we all get excited about the real high impact guys, but who's the best player likely to be dealt? Jeff Carter? Hemsky, Ruutu? Maybe a crop of underachieving Buffalo Sabres?

Parise - NJ is in the same spot as we are with Suter - they think they can go somewhere in the playoffs, hope to resign him, and probably won't be able to get a worthy package anyway.

RPG in Anahiem? Not happening.

Iginla, Nash, Stasny, Staal - not happening.

Yes, we'd probably all like to add a guy like Jeff Carter - but would Cbus move him in the division? Would we want to give up Ryan Ellis (especially with 6/20 and their uncertain future) for a guy like Ruutu? Hemsky? Derek Roy?

The time for DP to have landed an impact guy is not the trade deadline. It never is. The deadline is for adding complimentary pieces - which we can afford, and probably should go for a guy like Kostitsyn, 2nd pair D-man, etc.

I just don't see the upcoming blockbuster (for us or anyone this deadline).

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02-07-2012, 11:15 AM
  #166
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I don't want to sound like I'm straddling a fence here but I think the trade deadline is a LITTLE different this season than in years past. Yes we are usually in the playoff race and every team in such a race always wants to make a move/moves at the deadline and that's completely understandable, but this is such a young team and a team that is built around the future that I'm a little wary of giving up too much in a trade.

As was mentioned in another thread, it's very likely we have the best and deepest 2nd-4th lines in the league whereas we probably have the weakest top line. The obvious solution would be to go out and add a new forward to boost the top line but who do we give away that will bring in a nice return who isn't a useful part of the future? There are so few 'big' names likely available that I have a bad feeling we would have to give up too much. I almost feel like we would be better off adding another "good" forward to add to the already deep lines we have. Yeah maybe we don't have a go-to scorer and a great top line but we have an impressive power play and the depth that many teams would love to have. I think we should just embrace the makeup of this team, maybe add a pretty good depth scorer, and go from there.

I don't feel like a blockbuster deal is right for this team right now.


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02-07-2012, 11:17 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
next year because of Ellis and Josi not being rookies, Wilson maturing, Smith maturing, and most importantly I think Rads will be back next year.

Plus I still believe Poile intends to make a run at Parise this summer... whather he gets him or not is another matter...

remember, i wouldnt mind a deal this year, especially for an asset, I just wouldnt wreck next year for a rental

Totally agree. I think we get a good piece or 2 to add to our team, just don't think it will be a blockbuster name that we mortgage our future on.

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02-07-2012, 11:23 AM
  #168
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But will just adding "another guy" be enough to satisfy his highness, Ryan Suter. And to a lesser extent, Weber since he is RFA after this year.

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02-07-2012, 11:26 AM
  #169
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But will just adding "another guy" be enough to satisfy his highness, Ryan Suter. And to a lesser extent, Weber since he is RFA after this year.
That is where I feel this summer plays more into them resigning and when we can make a big push for a few UFA's without selling the farm.

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02-07-2012, 11:27 AM
  #170
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That is where I feel this summer plays more into them resigning and when we can make a big push for a few UFA's without selling the farm.
by the time UFAs are available, it's too late.

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02-07-2012, 11:29 AM
  #171
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by the time UFAs are available, it's too late.

No, it isn't.

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02-07-2012, 11:30 AM
  #172
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No, it isn't.
to make a statement to Suter? Yes, it is. If he hits the open market, he's going to have 20-25 teams in his ear. He's not going to say, "yes, that's a nice offer, but hold on, i'm waiting to see if Nashville gets Parise."

If he makes it to July 1st, you need to say your good-byes.

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02-07-2012, 11:31 AM
  #173
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I don't want to sound like I'm straddling a fence here but I think the trade deadline is a LITTLE different this season than in years past. Yes we are usually in the playoff race and every team in such a race always wants to make a move/moves at the deadline and that's completely understandable, but this is such a young team and a team that is built around the future that I'm a little wary of giving up too much in a trade.

As was mentioned in another thread, it's very likely we have the best and deepest 2nd-4th lines in the league whereas we probably have the weakest top line. The obvious solution would be to go out and add a new forward to boost the top line but who do we give away that will bring in a nice return who isn't a useful part of the future? There are so few 'big' names likely available that I have a bad feeling we would have to give up too much. I almost feel like we would be better off adding another "good" forward to add to the already deep lines we have. Yeah maybe we don't have a go-to scorer and a great top line but we have an impressive power play and the depth that many teams would love to have. I think we should just embrace the makeup of this team, maybe add a pretty good depth scorer, and go from there.

I don't feel like a blockbuster deal is right for this team right now.
When is the right time for this team?

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02-07-2012, 11:35 AM
  #174
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to make a statement to Suter? Yes, it is. If he hits the open market, he's going to have 20-25 teams in his ear. He's not going to say, "yes, that's a nice offer, but hold on, i'm waiting to see if Nashville gets Parise."

If he makes it to July 1st, you need to say your good-byes.
Sorry, that's just not the case. He has the right to have everyone in his ear, but if we get a huge UFA, and what we have as a foundation, he would be stupid to go elsewhere.

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02-07-2012, 11:40 AM
  #175
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Sorry, that's just not the case. He has the right to have everyone in his ear, but if we get a huge UFA, and what we have as a foundation, he would be stupid to go elsewhere.
Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. Regardless of what we have as a "foundation," teams like Detroit have an appeal that we don't-- a proven track record of winning championships, not just "getting there."

Either way, you can't gamble everything on signing a UFA that, like suter, will be coveted by most teams in the league. If we truly want to land Parise, Poile and Trotz have been forthright that it takes having players of Weber and Suter's caliber on your roster to make it appealing, especially in a non-premiere market. If we're relying on Parise to lure Suter back, we're in deep trouble.

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