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Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks
"Zorn made the report via Twitter last night here, writing: "Just to clarify..Jamison has been approved to by the NHL as an owner, and his money..still a little work to finish on it."
This cycle is a result of the Zorn fellow sending a Twitter about Jamison being approved but still needing to work on his money? Wow. I would be careful taking "news" from Zorn or anyone else who doesn't understand the irrelevance of league approval in the context of this transaction. The story is about actually having a financing plan and a long term lease.
At the risk of sounding like GSC2k2, you have to roll your eyes at the complete lack of understanding about the deal. Only someone with zero comprehension of the dynamics of the Coyotes sale would think "NHL approves Jamison" is even a story. I guess that's why I'm not on Twitter. I can do without the meaningless reports from misinformed "sources".
Zorn says he hasn't met GJ....knows him via Twitter.....so my question is why not post the Tweet from GJ that confirms what you say he sent you via twitter. Have no idea who this guy is but someone you only know via twitter becomes the guy you give insider info to? No other mainstream media person is reporting anything even about this today....dunno.....maybe Zorn is in the know.....just seems like an odd outlet for GJ to make a big announcement.
All this means is that the League has investigated his financial claims and validated that he actually has the financial assets he claims to have. The league has been burned several times by fraudulent potential owners.
LC....I'm gonna send you a tweet.....that says "Just to clarify..DaveMac has been approved to by the NHL as an owner, and his money..still a little work to finish on it."
You send it about everywhere.....cause it has been tweeted, that means that I have been approved and I do have the Money....I just have a little work to do yet....(I have to wait for 6 random numbers to be drawn that match the ones on my ticket.......40 draws in a row.....).
Give me a league confirmation or GJ actually saying it or a few other people confirming that this is anything more than GJ has talked to the league, which I am sure he has. Then I'll start buying into this, right now....it is barely a better rumour than Roenick buying the team with some buddies. At least JR said it.
I understand what the approval process means. My point is that having financial assets and the will to spend those assets on obtaining the Coyotes are two very different things. Reinsdorf, Ice Edge, and Hulsizer all have assets, they just were not interested in spending them on the Coyotes.
Or, put another way, you're approved to paint my house. By itself, it's a non-story. If you were to actually come paint the house, then it's news. Until then, the "approval" is meaningless.
In that context, Zorn would be better served using the words "qualified" and/or "certified" -- as in, Jamison has been certified as a qualified prospective owner (possesses the necessary liquid assets to purchase an NHL team).
They aren't free, Coyotes fans donated the tickets, and these were limited, again, people who despise the Coyotes existence will want to relate the sell out to free tickets, but sorry, that's not true
I understand what the approval process means. My point is that having financial assets and the will to spend those assets on obtaining the Coyotes are two very different things. Reinsdorf, Ice Edge, and Hulsizer all have assets, they just were not interested in spending them on the Coyotes.
Or, put another way, you're approved to paint my house. By itself, it's a non-story. If you were to actually come paint the house, then it's news. Until then, the "approval" is meaningless.
They were all also "approved" by the league, at some level.
In fact, in December 2009 the NHL signed a Letter of Intent to sell the Coyotes to IEH (http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=509565). It is curious that given all of the previous fits and starts with this that so much is being made about vague Tweets and other rumours. Hulsizer was also formally approved by the NHL, though he not only failed to close a deal with Glendale but was also subsequently punted by the NHL from the St. Louis purchase derby.
As CF points out, the history on this deal is pretty clear that there is a lot more to getting a sale completed than "approval" of an owner by the NHL. The problems have always been concluding negotiations on the price, who pays it, and what sorts of subsidies will be provided by Glendale. At this point, the Glendale City Council does not even seem to be even aware of who they might negotiate with on a new lease, let alone come to a final agreement. When serious lease negotiations are underway, we will all know about it. Until then, all of these rumours are just puffs of smoke, usually aimed at luring internet / Twitter traffic or finding 15 minutes in the media spotlight by media hogs.
The mystery third buyer perhaps? Maybe he could get Bruce Dickenson to fly the team around to save on travel costs. Plus he could get all the metal bands to play at the Job to maximize non-hockey revenue.
Military personnel are just one group that the campaign seeks to benefit.
Also this campaign has been ongoing for several months.
This is a case where the tickets should be free but they are not!
I think this program is great but do have issues with it. Certainly military personnel, law enforcement, first responders etc... deserve to be honoured. giving them tickets to hockey games is a fantastic way to show appreciation for all of their efforts.
However, the problem is that these tickets are not "given" away by the Coyotes. The Coyotes are collecting money to buy tickets to give away. In essence it is a way to tug at the heart strings of citizens to buy tickets/donate money so brave men and women can attend the game. In short it helps improve the Coyotes bottom line because these are actual paid butts in the seats.
I see the program as smooth propoghanda having citizens "donate" to support our troops when in fact it is really a donation to the Coyotes bottom line. We all know the Coyotes could donate 417 already empty seats per game for this cause and reach their goal of 17125. Instead they are making people pay for the seats to increase Coyote paid attendace to the equivalent of a one game sell-out.
I find this type of marketing to be rather disgusting.
I like how the Coyotes call it a "unique effort" It is a unique way to fleece money out of people when the team should be showing appreciation by comping the tickets themselves not asking the public to pay for the tickets.
This is a case where the tickets should be comped.
Quote:
COYOTES ATTEMPTING TO SEND
17,125 HEROES TO GAMES THIS SEASON
This record-setting amount would be the equivalent of a sellout at Jobing.com Arena, and the first sellout of its kind.
The Coyotes are asking fans to contribute to this campaign by donating as little as one dollar to help send the heroes of Arizona to a game. The team will be tracking efforts towards the sellout as fans and groups alike are invited to join in this unique effort.
In that context, Zorn would be better served using the words "qualified" and/or "certified" -- as in, Jamison has been certified as a qualified prospective owner (possesses the necessary liquid assets to purchase an NHL team).
Zorn is free to write whatever he wants, however he wants. My point was only that if you are a journalist chasing the approval angle as a story, or, you are a reader treating the approval angle as a meaningful update, then you do not understand the dynamics of this sales process at all.
If this guy can use such a non-event to gain readers to his blog, cheers to him. The mainstream media over hypes stories all the time to increase viewership. I see no good reason that alternative media cannot do the same.
You get the impression that they are getting burned out by the whole thing.
I am tuning in to this thread to see the QC people gradually ramp up their hopes and feign sympathy for the Coyotes fans. And to see the inaccurate assessment of the local fans by others in far away cities.
The attendance for the Dallas game was a HUGE improvement. It was nice to see the stadium close to capacity.
The Girl Scouts do something similar - should they not do it because it benefits them?
At the cookie booth (or on the order forms) you can order cookie boxes to be sent to the troops. The GS troop still gets to keep their cut (75 cents per box), the bakery that makes the cookies get their cut, the only difference is that the person who paid the $4 doesn't get the cookies, someone in the military gets the cookies.
Is this also nefarious or playing on emotions? Or is it just a win-win situation? Someone who wants to sell cookies gets to sell cookies. Someone who wants to do something for the troops gets to do something for the troops. And someone who wants to help out the girl scouts but doesn't want or cant eat cookies can still do so, while feeling good about the whole transaction.
I'm glad the Coyotes are doing this. I'm a teacher and my school benefited from this program. We had 60 teachers attend the game on MLK day - and I would say that 55 of them had never before been to a hockey game. Who knows, maybe this will win them some new fans?
I personally took 7 of my students to the game last night. Well, I arranged for them to buy group tickets and then we met up there. Only one had ever been to a game before. After the game, they ALL said they would like to go to another game. They were howling and cheering and having a fine time. I even did a little hockey 101 lesson this past week so they'd know what they were seeing and who the players to watch were. I took them down to the ice to watch the warm-ups and they had a blast. If even 1 or 2 of them keeps going to the games, it will be a great thing. I'm sure that the Coyotes marketing team is trying to do the exact same thing by 'giving' these tickets away to teachers, firefighters, law enforcement and military.
The Girl Scouts do something similar - should they not do it because it benefits them?
At the cookie booth (or on the order forms) you can order cookie boxes to be sent to the troops. The GS troop still gets to keep their cut (75 cents per box), the bakery that makes the cookies get their cut, the only difference is that the person who paid the $4 doesn't get the cookies, someone in the military gets the cookies.
Is this also nefarious or playing on emotions? Or is it just a win-win situation? Someone who wants to sell cookies gets to sell cookies. Someone who wants to do something for the troops gets to do something for the troops. And someone who wants to help out the girl scouts but doesn't want or cant eat cookies can still do so, while feeling good about the whole transaction.
I'm glad the Coyotes are doing this. I'm a teacher and my school benefited from this program. We had 60 teachers attend the game on MLK day - and I would say that 55 of them had never before been to a hockey game. Who knows, maybe this will win them some new fans?
I personally took 7 of my students to the game last night. Well, I arranged for them to buy group tickets and then we met up there. Only one had ever been to a game before. After the game, they ALL said they would like to go to another game. They were howling and cheering and having a fine time. I even did a little hockey 101 lesson this past week so they'd know what they were seeing and who the players to watch were. I took them down to the ice to watch the warm-ups and they had a blast. If even 1 or 2 of them keeps going to the games, it will be a great thing. I'm sure that the Coyotes marketing team is trying to do the exact same thing by 'giving' these tickets away to teachers, firefighters, law enforcement and military.
I don't like when people sell things by appealing to others' goodwill or emotions, when the thing is completely unrelated to that person's goodwill or emotions (my opinion, you can disagree and we're still cool). So if you're raising money for breast cancer and say, "hey don't you want to help breast cancer research?" that's okay with me. But to say, "Hey, don't you like vets?" and sell them Coyotes tickets, when you personally make a profit off of it?
I admit it's difficult to argue this because I don't know the exact details of how either one is operated, so if I'm wrong I'll happily concede. BUT, as far as I can tell, the difference between the Girl Scouts and the Coyotes is how it is framed. If the Scouts say "we're selling cookies and X dollars go here and Y dollars go there" (and since you know this I imagine they do let people know), then it is not misleading, even if it does play on emotions. But in Blues10's post a few back the Coyotes' language conveniently leaves out that the Coyotes are the only ones making a financial gain out of this, but they play it off as solely "donating" to vets. What are the Coyotes donating? Nothing. Are supposed to be happy that the Coyotes are 'enabling' you to donate? What are the Coyotes doing exactly? Why do we need the Coyotes organization at all to donate tickets? We can do that on our own. It's a marketing campaign, just as you said, which plays on peoples' goodwill towards vets, and nothing else. That's why I think it's wrong.
So is it a 'win-win' situation as you describe? Well, sort of. No one is being outright forced to do anything. But what if, when you took your students to the game (solid move by the way, good on you), you overcharged them by $20 each. They still get to go to a game, you make a bunch of money, and there are more people watching the coyotes. Win-win-win, right? Nothing wrong here?* It's shades of grey.
*note that this scenario isn't supposed to be directly analogous to the Coyotes situation, but just trying to get people to think differently about being 'win-win' situations being clear cut
After reading the past two to three pages in this thread I have come to the conclusion that no matter what the Coyotes do to get people into the arena, there are a few who are going to rip into it for the sake of it.
If they gave away tickets to the military that was bad...
When they come up with a program to get donations (from local businesses to help cover the costs for the tickets.... well that's bad too.
I would imagine if a third party had a similar similar program in place to pay for tickets these same people would figure out some way to make that a taboo as well.
If they are donations, donors should be issued a tax receipt. If Coyotes Newco LLB is not a charity, they should not present themselves as one.
Although Coyotes Newco LLC has appeared to be a charity at times by receiveing 2 x $25 million payments from the COG it in fact is the company set up by the NHL to manage and operate the Coyotes. William Daly is the manager of Coyotes Newco LLC.
This is no charity, the Coyotes are directly benefitting from the "donors" good will and donations.
After reading the past two to three pages in this thread I have come to the conclusion that no matter what the Coyotes do to get people into the arena, there are a few who are going to rip into it for the sake of it.
If they gave away tickets to the military that was bad...
When they come up with a program to get donations (from local businesses to help cover the costs for the tickets.... well that's bad too.
I would imagine if a third party had a similar similar program in place to pay for tickets these same people would figure out some way to make that a taboo as well.
Whatever.
I am equally dismayed at the turn this thread has taken. I found the Coyotes donation program to be inspirational. I'm eager to explore opportunities to advocate for ticket donation programs whereby secondary vendors, such as StubHub, are participants in the process of aligning ticket donors with deserving recipients (military, under privileged youth, etc).
What the Coyotes have done is tremendous and it cannot be cheapened by some comment on a message forum.
I am equally dismayed at the turn this thread has taken. I found the Coyotes donation program to be inspirational. I'm eager to explore opportunities to advocate for ticket donation programs whereby secondary vendors, such as StubHub, are participants in the process of aligning ticket donors with deserving recipients (military, under privileged youth, etc).
What the Coyotes have done is tremendous and it cannot be cheapened by some comment on a message forum.
What exactly have the Coyotes done that is 'tremendous'? I'm genuinely curious if you think there is no conflict of interest. They are making money off of others' respect for soldiers. You doing it and the Coyotes doing it -- do you really see those as the same?
I'm eager to explore opportunities to advocate for ticket donation programs whereby secondary vendors, such as StubHub, are participants in the process of aligning ticket donors with deserving recipients (military, under privileged youth, etc).
When you log in to the STH admin area, you are always given the option of donating tickets. I think this is great - if I can't go to a game, I have the option of eating the cost of the ticket and getting nothing in return, trying to sell the ticket, giving the ticket away to a friend - or letting the Coyotes give my ticket to someone.
I've paid my money for the ticket. I'm out the money no matter what. The Coyotes got my money, they get to keep it whether or not there's a butt in that seat. I feel better knowing that it went for SOMETHING rather than sitting empty.
The only difference is that in this case, I've donated something that I already owned as opposed to actually going up to the table at the game to purchase additional seats to donate. I may not get a receipt as a donor, but I do have the happiness of knowing that I didn't just throw the money away. And I don't get a nifty hard hat for making the donation.
Do other teams not have this sort of thing for STH?
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