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Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks
Does anybody realize that if he buys the club for 100M, make the city pay part or total exploitation deficit, and sell the team in 7 years , say 230M, he is making 130M on everybody's back?
Funny to read the quotes from Daly, steadfastly denying any deal is done for the Coyotes.
Conspiracy theory: sounds to me like he's trying to minimize it, so as not to jeopardize any deal to get an arena in Seattle.
SOunds like the NHL has told Jamieson a price, which Jamieson is willing to pay if the city of Glendale gives him enough money. The problem is that the NHL isn't going to lower its price and the City of Glendale will need to chip in $25 mil+ a year to make the price of the team what the NHL wants. The drama is always when the owner tries to reach an agreement with the City, not the NHL, and I see no signs of such an agreement with the City.
Still dont understand why the good citizens and hockey fans of Atlanta werent treated to same preferential level of treatment.
There really is nothing to celebrate at this point, but it's good that there's a fight (or the illusion of one) to keep the team put. I reckon that "illusion" part wouldn't be so good though.
Atlanta is a real shame and does not look good on the game (hard to understand why anyone would have celebrated their demise) being a two time loser.
Sounds like the NHL has told Jamieson a price, which Jamieson is willing to pay if the city of Glendale gives him enough money. The problem is that the NHL isn't going to lower its price and the City of Glendale will need to chip in $25 mil+ a year to make the price of the team what the NHL wants. The drama is always when the owner tries to reach an agreement with the City, not the NHL, and I see no signs of such an agreement with the City.
Does anybody realize that if he buys the club for 100M, make the city pay part or total exploitation deficit, and sell the team in 7 years , say 230M, he is making 130M on everybody's back?
NHL won't let him sell for $230. They'll let him sell for $100 million then take $130 million relocation fee much like they did for Atlanta.
Either the NHL has encountered a rather obstinate group on the BOG who are demanding full recompense for the Coyotes adventure, or the NHL has something else up their sleeve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kihekah19
Let the mindless speculation continue!
Okay, K, thanks kihekah, dont mind if I do... because as it sits, Im inclined to be leaning towards the first part of Whileee's post. An "obstinate group on the BOG" demanding full recompense & then some for the franchise in a sale for relo with a willing buyer holding the line in Quebec City waiting for an answer. This just reeks of "set-up to an exit". The leagues not dropping their price, hence, no ones buying. With no effective City Manager and an election in August, expect deferrals on any decision regarding the franchise from Glendale. No way do they drop another $25M be it the NHL, Jamison or Reinsdorf.
There really is nothing to celebrate at this point, but it's good that there's a fight (or the illusion of one) to keep the team put. I reckon that "illusion" part wouldn't be so good though.
Atlanta is a real shame and does not look good on the game (hard to understand why anyone would have celebrated their demise) being a two time loser.
While that's another time and another thread, I didn't understand why Atlanta was not given the same treatment the Coyotes have to this point (it they still may move this year, but it looks more likely that they're staying).
Maybe because Atlanta was not willing to shell out public $ and the NHL didn't want to potentially own 2 teams?
I saw a game vs the Kings in Glendale in October. While the crowd could have been bigger (10500) I was still impressed. I wouldn't be foaming at the mouth, like some people are, if they wind up staying.
Can somebody who has the numbers at their fingertips put together a quick and dirty cash flow statement for a possible PHX team solution?
Former Blue Jackets president Doug Macelan has stated that a good estimate of a team able to break even is if their ticket revenues are equal to salary costs. Additional costs being offset from other revenue streams.
So a start would be selling out the 17,200 (estimate) arena every game at an average of about $60 a ticket. I think they're currently getting about 14 to 15 thousand at $40 average.
Former Blue Jackets president Doug Macelan has stated that a good estimate of a team able to break even is if their ticket revenues are equal to salary costs. Additional costs being offset from other revenue streams.
So a start would be selling out the 17,200 (estimate) arena every game at an average of about $60 a ticket. I think they're currently getting about 14 to 15 thousand at $40 average.
That works out to:
17,200 x $60= $1,032,000 (equiv of per game payroll expenses)
14,500 x $40= $580,000 (revenues per game)
per game Cash Position: -$452,000
Gate is a good starting point to figure out total revenue potential.
Now, how about everything else:
What is luxury box situation currently?
What is the value of the concessions and parking?
What does their regional TV contract look like?
Also: $25,000,000 city subsidy / 41 GP= $609,756
Last edited by JawandaPuck: 02-21-2012 at 02:26 PM.
Wow, I don't even think the Suns or teams like the Bruins, Kings or Predators get this.....so does that mean that they're potential failures too?
Again, the Suns, don't even have a 60-70 dollar average and you're suggesting charging higher prices than a team that's been there since 1970?
I can't speak to the Nashville situation but the Bruins and Kings have owners with very deep pockets and multiple revenue streams outside of gate attendance and even hockey operations.
As for the Suns..... they do benefit from NBA TV deals and sponsorship agreements the NHL and the Coyotes can only dream of having.
someone else posted that to even have a shot of breaking even.... gate revenue has to at the very least equal team salaries. Remaining costs can be made up from other hockey generated revenue streams.
If the Yotes payroll is 55M it would take 17,200 fans paying approx. $75.00 a ticket on average to match the payroll costs alone.
the benefits of having a large season ticket base (13k - 14K) minimum with a multi-year commitment gives the new owner some cost certainty regarding revenue.
Sale to keep Phoenix Coyotes in Arizona close to final
Sale price is apparently $170mm (which means the league/teams are eating some of the losses incurred in recent years).
This "fund" to cover operating costs may be (private) monies collected by Jamison and investors, NOT any public monies. Nothing is clear in article (from anonymous source familiar with situation).
While that's another time and another thread, I didn't understand why Atlanta was not given the same treatment the Coyotes have to this point (it they still may move this year, but it looks more likely that they're staying).
Maybe because Atlanta was not willing to shell out public $ and the NHL didn't want to potentially own 2 teams?
I saw a game vs the Kings in Glendale in October. While the crowd could have been bigger (10500) I was still impressed. I wouldn't be foaming at the mouth, like some people are, if they wind up staying.
It is because of who owns the arena.
In Glendale the City owns the building, has a huge mountain of debt on said building, and is desparate to keep the team in said building. That has led to the city shelling out all those millions to keep the team.
In Atlanta the ASG owned the arena. ASG (or rather the people who ultimately bought the arena and the Hawks) did not want the team to stay - in fact they wanted them out ASAP.
Sale price is apparently $170mm (which means the league/teams are eating some of the losses incurred in recent years).
This "fund" to cover operating costs may be (private) monies collected by Jamison and investors, NOT any public monies. Nothing is clear in article (from anonymous source familiar with situation).
LMAO, the deal is close to getting done....BUT, if it falls through there is JR and Kaites and if that doesn't happen there is Seattle and Quebec. OK fine.
This is different from the past three years...how?... Report on (my) local radio is that Jamison is "still looking for investors". FWIW, YMMV, etc.
Doesnt appear to be much different at all. Last year, the year before that it was IEH followed by Hulsizer, both purportedly close, both purportedly finalizing their financing, and in both cases ramped up rumors as we approached the end of the season, another few mnths needed (and $25M) to close a deal. Some story & play, a different lead actor. Pardon my cynicism, but until such time as something substantive is forthcoming I fail to see whats changed.
Mark my words, parking rights is going to rear its ugly head again.
Ownership of the parking rights is like follow the bouncing ball:
Glendale owns the land;
Transferred to Ellman in the MUDA;
Transferred to Moyes's Arena Management Group in the Partition and Sale Agreement;
Parking fees paid to the City of Glendale in the AMULA (Coyotes Lease);
Transferred to Jerry Moyes Estate in Bankruptcy;
Transferred to the NHL Newco in the Partial Assignment Agreement with the bankruptcy court;
Transferred back to the City of Glendale, on a season by season basis in the NHL - COG Arena Management and Operations Agreement.
Attempted sale to the CoG in the Hulsizer AMULA.
Note that at every step, once the Arena was built, in every lease or transfer of rights, Glendale has sought to control the parking rights. Even when the Coyotes were reducing ticket prices and not charging for parking, the City was being paid $2.50 per car parked.
This revenue stream seems to be the line in the sand for the CoG.
In Glendale the City owns the building, has a huge mountain of debt on said building, and is desparate to keep the team in said building. That has led to the city shelling out all those millions to keep the team.
In Atlanta the ASG owned the arena. ASG (or rather the people who ultimately bought the arena and the Hawks) did not want the team to stay - in fact they wanted them out ASAP.
Just a nit-picky point of info.: A$G doesn't technically own Philips Arena. The city of Atlanta does. HOWEVER, what A$G does own is the operating rights to the arena, which gives them 100 percent say of what events the arena hosts. That makes your point still valid.
Oh, and BTW, A$G still owns the operating rights to the Bulb and the Hawks, since that deal to sell to Alex Muerlo fell through months ago.
OK fine.
