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Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks
Lets face it the coyotes are going to relocate next season the question is where Seattle is a long way off from putting a shovel in the ground & Quebec City has funding issues for there new arena . That leaves Kansas City that has a new arena & no prospective ownership group , Hamilton has an arena that can be NHL. ready in time for next season & prospective owners waiting in the wings , Houston has an arena but no prospective ownership group & Portland which has an arena but no prospective ownership . In my opinion Seattle , Quebec City & Hamilton are the front runners to land the coyotes & the 2 that don't get the coyotes will get future expansion teams & the reason I say this because there dose not seem to be any intrest in the NHL. in Kansas City , Houston & Portland right now & if you ask me Kansas City wants an NBA. team not an NHL. team .
Lets face it the coyotes are going to relocate next season the question is where Seattle is a long way off from putting a shovel in the ground & Quebec City has funding issues for there new arena . That leaves Kansas City that has a new arena & no prospective ownership group , Hamilton has an arena that can be NHL. ready in time for next season & prospective owners waiting in the wings , Houston has an arena but no prospective ownership group & Portland which has an arena but no prospective ownership . In my opinion Seattle , Quebec City & Hamilton are the front runners to land the coyotes & the 2 that don't get the coyotes will get future expansion teams & the reason I say this because there dose not seem to be any intrest in the NHL. in Kansas City , Houston & Portland right now & if you ask me Kansas City wants an NBA. team not an NHL. team .
Hold on there my fellow Hammer man, QC is next in line.
One thing can feed off another. The media should cover the news, the hockey team and what they are doing is news. Consider the rise to third place yesterday (albeit with the Sharks having games in hand) and the small Associated Press blurb at the bottom of the sports page with story on pg. six.... that's our local coverage.
Ain't that the truth. It doesn't really matter how big of a story the Coyotes generate, the media in AZ has chosen that they won't report in in-depth. I'm not sure how they determine that more people in the valley care about the high school basketball championship than an NHL team, but I'm pretty sure that the basketball games weren't a 17,000+ sell-out crowd yesterday.
They've reported on some pretty crazy stuff and ignored the Yotes. Every time they've done something amazing - beating Detroit, beating the Sharks, having a winning streak, Doan getting a hat trick - the papers give them the same amount of press - maybe 1/4 of a page or so - and then the bulk of the sports section is filled with the latest on ANY other team in town, even if it's not even the season for that sport.
KTAR reported a couple of weeks ago - when the Coyotes had a 3-game streak - that "we have one HOT team playing tonight, they're on a 3-game winning streak and wow, let's talk about it!" But hey, they were talking about the SUNS - who promptly lost the game that night. There was also a Yotes game that same night, but they didn't mention that at all. And the next morning, the story was about how much the Suns stunk - not a peep about how the Coyotes WON the game and now had a 4-game streak!
Having lived in Phoenix for 30+ years, I will say that I've learned a couple of things about Phoenicians - first, they tend to be fair-weather/bandwagon fans. There are a lot of people who don't care about a team if they're doing poorly, but as soon as they have a good season, there are all sorts of new fans jumping on the bandwagon. The Cardinals have been bad for so many years that they were really a joke - then they went to the superbowl and all of a sudden they have all sorts of popularity. The Suns were good for many years and everyone followed them. Now they're struggling and you don't see many Suns jerseys out there.
The second thing about Phoenicians is that if the media reports it and makes it a story, people will pick up on it. When the Suns were in the playoffs, they WERE the news. Even non-basketball fans were watching the games, because every news show made a big deal about it. Employers had employees wear Suns gear to work on game days, Circle K handed out signs - and anyone who lived in the valley had a pretty good idea of where the Suns were in the playoffs. Same thing with the D-backs and the Cardinals. The grocery store near me allows employees to wear football gear every Sunday during the season. People who maybe aren't really into football or baseball still know how the teams are doing because they are a big story. And people who may not be big fans of basketball, football or baseball will go to games if they know the team is doing well - they all want to be part of the big story.
But hockey...well, that's different. I've never yet seen a business allowing its employees to wear Coyotes gear on game day. The average person doesn't really know how the team is doing. There isn't that sense of community buy-in unless you are already a member of the pack. If you're already a follower, there's quite a bit of community awareness and lots of communication on the team's FB page, on twitter, etc. The team does a ton of public relations/charity events - more than I see other teams doing. But for them to really become Arizona's/Phoenix's team, there would have to be a lot more media presence and exposure. Knowing that Phoenicians like to jump on the bandwagon of a winning team, I would venture that if the newscasts were to lead in with the latest victory or the news that the team is #1 in the division, there would be a big jump in tickets sold. But alas, that doesn't seem to be destined to happen. And so long as the stories about the team continue to be "oh yeah, and there was also a Coyotes game today" - we probably won't see it happen.
Lets face it the coyotes are going to relocate next season the question is where Seattle is a long way off from putting a shovel in the ground & Quebec City has funding issues for there new arena . That leaves Kansas City that has a new arena & no prospective ownership group , Hamilton has an arena that can be NHL. ready in time for next season & prospective owners waiting in the wings , Houston has an arena but no prospective ownership group & Portland which has an arena but no prospective ownership . In my opinion Seattle , Quebec City & Hamilton are the front runners to land the coyotes & the 2 that don't get the coyotes will get future expansion teams & the reason I say this because there dose not seem to be any intrest in the NHL. in Kansas City , Houston & Portland right now & if you ask me Kansas City wants an NBA. team not an NHL. team .
Who is the prospective ownership in Hamilton...thats news to me.
I guess they'll just ignore the lost purchasing power of those funds over 25 (or 50) years. Maybe they can punch a toddler in the face while they're at it.
They already did.... Little Logan is gonna be paying for this the rest of his life.
Hold on there my fellow Hammer man, QC is next in line.
I know Quebec City should be next in line but they have a 150 million dollars over budget gap they have to close & I don't think the NHL. would take a relocation bid from them until they solve this funding gap & have a shovel in the ground for there new arena first .
No, it's not accurate, it's your highly biased blinkered embittered view on things. And no, it's not accurate in the least to say the NHL doesn't want Hamilton. YOU don't want Hamilton, you are not the league...
It's not accurate the NHL wants Hamilton either (unless the right price comes along, or you can provide documentation that says otherwise)..... right along with many other inaccuracies that have been espoused on this board for three years from all sides.
It's really pointless right now to speculate what Balsillie's offer to Glendale would have done because it didn't happen. Just as it is pointless to speculate whether or not Balsillie would make a good owner of an NHL franchise.
I herd on the news a few days ago that it was going to cost Quebec City 550 million dollars to build there new NHL. size arena more than 400 million originaly est.
I herd on the news a few days ago that it was going to cost Quebec City 550 million dollars to build there new NHL. size arena more than 400 million originaly est.
No, that's not it. What was said is that due to the insane cost of preparing the site where the new arena was originaly going to be built (that was a dump before) the city decided to change the construction site and build it on the old horse racetrack.
I dont know where you got the 550 million dollars figure. But the city is really driven to build the arena on budget and I'm certain they'll do so!
Ain't that the truth. It doesn't really matter how big of a story the Coyotes generate, the media in AZ has chosen that they won't report in in-depth. I'm not sure how they determine that more people in the valley care about the high school basketball championship than an NHL team, but I'm pretty sure that the basketball games weren't a 17,000+ sell-out crowd yesterday.
They've reported on some pretty crazy stuff and ignored the Yotes. Every time they've done something amazing - beating Detroit, beating the Sharks, having a winning streak, Doan getting a hat trick - the papers give them the same amount of press - maybe 1/4 of a page or so - and then the bulk of the sports section is filled with the latest on ANY other team in town, even if it's not even the season for that sport.
KTAR reported a couple of weeks ago - when the Coyotes had a 3-game streak - that "we have one HOT team playing tonight, they're on a 3-game winning streak and wow, let's talk about it!" But hey, they were talking about the SUNS - who promptly lost the game that night. There was also a Yotes game that same night, but they didn't mention that at all. And the next morning, the story was about how much the Suns stunk - not a peep about how the Coyotes WON the game and now had a 4-game streak!
Having lived in Phoenix for 30+ years, I will say that I've learned a couple of things about Phoenicians - first, they tend to be fair-weather/bandwagon fans. There are a lot of people who don't care about a team if they're doing poorly, but as soon as they have a good season, there are all sorts of new fans jumping on the bandwagon. The Cardinals have been bad for so many years that they were really a joke - then they went to the superbowl and all of a sudden they have all sorts of popularity. The Suns were good for many years and everyone followed them. Now they're struggling and you don't see many Suns jerseys out there.
The second thing about Phoenicians is that if the media reports it and makes it a story, people will pick up on it. When the Suns were in the playoffs, they WERE the news. Even non-basketball fans were watching the games, because every news show made a big deal about it. Employers had employees wear Suns gear to work on game days, Circle K handed out signs - and anyone who lived in the valley had a pretty good idea of where the Suns were in the playoffs. Same thing with the D-backs and the Cardinals. The grocery store near me allows employees to wear football gear every Sunday during the season. People who maybe aren't really into football or baseball still know how the teams are doing because they are a big story. And people who may not be big fans of basketball, football or baseball will go to games if they know the team is doing well - they all want to be part of the big story.
But hockey...well, that's different. I've never yet seen a business allowing its employees to wear Coyotes gear on game day. The average person doesn't really know how the team is doing. There isn't that sense of community buy-in unless you are already a member of the pack. If you're already a follower, there's quite a bit of community awareness and lots of communication on the team's FB page, on twitter, etc. The team does a ton of public relations/charity events - more than I see other teams doing. But for them to really become Arizona's/Phoenix's team, there would have to be a lot more media presence and exposure. Knowing that Phoenicians like to jump on the bandwagon of a winning team, I would venture that if the newscasts were to lead in with the latest victory or the news that the team is #1 in the division, there would be a big jump in tickets sold. But alas, that doesn't seem to be destined to happen. And so long as the stories about the team continue to be "oh yeah, and there was also a Coyotes game today" - we probably won't see it happen.
No, that's not it. What was said is that due to the insane cost of preparing the site where the new arena was originaly going to be built (that was a dump before) the city decided to change the construction site and build it on the old horse racetrack.
I dont know where you got the 550 million dollars figure. But the city is really driven to build the arena on budget and I'm certain they'll do so!
He is not totally wrong but its way premature to say it's over.
As previouly stated and posted in the Qc thread, the 550M figure is for a Mercedes Benz arena. They will cut several de luxe caracteristics and try to get to 400M.
Final answer is march 31st. Do not be surprised if they give a "go".
It's not accurate the NHL wants Hamilton either (unless the right price comes along, or you can provide documentation that says otherwise)..... right along with many other inaccuracies that have been espoused on this board for three years from all sides.
It's really pointless right now to speculate what Balsillie's offer to Glendale would have done because it didn't happen. Just as it is pointless to speculate whether or not Balsillie would make a good owner of an NHL franchise.
You are preaching to the choir mate. It's obvious if the right convergence of factors come into play they will pursue a market regardless of location. In the case of possible relocation of the Coyotes they are keeping all of there options open, including keeping the Coyotes another season. I personally think that Seattle, by virtue of being an American city, is in the front of the line. It doesn't need to have the best bid, it just needs a viable one...
COG knows the cost of a dark arena. Just because the didn't ask for a formal evaluation doesn't mean that they don't have a clue. While it may be quite fun to hold up COG as incompetent, you might find when all is said and done that the COG was quite competent in dealing with the facts on the ground.
I will be extremely surprised if anyone finds that the COG was quite competent "when all is said and done". Right now, the Mayor is squabbling with the city manager and other councilors because she thinks that they need to know how much it actually costs to run the arena and then develop alternatives in case the Coyotes leave. So, which group is being competent? They completely bungled the Hulsizer negotiation, either knowingly offering an illegal subsidy or refusing to defend a legal agreement. I expect that the current spat with the GWI over release of public records will leave many of them with egg on their face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful
Well I have been captivated by this saga. This plan B has me a little confused. Do I understand this correctly? The city didn't want to entertain a plan B in the previous couple of years (good lord years) because it may have spooked /derailed a sale. Apparently since a sale is now far enough along that a plan B won't derail it, the city is going to develop one. Is that correct? Sounds unbelievable but then again so many things have been throughout this saga.
It seems to me that the most reasonable interpretation of the agreement by Beasley and other councilors to assess the cost of running the arena and moving to "Plan B" is that they have become less confident of a local sale and are now agreeing that they must look at alternatives. If they were wanting to assess arena management costs for negotiations with Jamison, they would have completed that study long ago. The most likely reason for delaying the assessment of arena management costs is to avoid legal jeopardy with the $25 million that they are paying to the NHL. If they knew that $25 million was much more than it costs to run the arena, then they would have been providing an illegal subsidy to the NHL. If they begin a study to assess costs now the results will probably come after all payments to the NHL have been made, and they can plead that they were ignorant when they are accused of providing a subsidy when they finally show that they have been grossly overpaying. Clever and "competent" if you like your city councilors and managers to be devious and reckless, and then running away (bye bye Beasley).
I will be extremely surprised if anyone finds that the COG was quite competent "when all is said and done". Right now, the Mayor is squabbling with the city manager and other councilors because she thinks that they need to know how much it actually costs to run the arena and then develop alternatives in case the Coyotes leave. So, which group is being competent? They completely bungled the Hulsizer negotiation, either knowingly offering an illegal subsidy or refusing to defend a legal agreement. I expect that the current spat with the GWI over release of public records will leave many of them with egg on their face.
There's also moving forward with the Hulsizer deal based solely on the TL Hocking study.
There's also moving forward with the Hulsizer deal based solely on the TL Hocking study.
Well, some would say that was "clever", and that the end justifies the means. But if the test is a successful local sale, I would say that the Hulsizer deal couldn't have been a worst disaster for the COG. Not only did the failed deal waste an enormous amount of time and effort, it also severely damaged the COG's credibility and public standing. They could use some of the public capital that they squandered on the Hulsizer deal now, if they are trying to negotiate a reasonable lease with a legitimate buyer.
I herd on the news a few days ago that it was going to cost Quebec City 550 million dollars to build there new NHL. size arena more than 400 million originaly est.
This 550M$ is what it would cost putting every bell & whistles you could ever dream of. Like QcBlizzard already mentionned, it wouldn't be honest saying a Mercedes SLK 350's worth $74,875.00 knowing its base price is $66,500.00...
The city have decided right from the start they would go for the base model (still Mercedes though )
Well, some would say that was "clever", and that the end justifies the means. But if the test is a successful local sale, I would say that the Hulsizer deal couldn't have been a worst disaster for the COG. Not only did the failed deal waste an enormous amount of time and effort, it also severely damaged the COG's credibility and public standing. They could use some of the public capital that they squandered on the Hulsizer deal now, if they are trying to negotiate a reasonable lease with a legitimate buyer.
Clever on the part of Beasley perhaps, but a few councilors stated that the Hocking study was the only one they saw prior to the vote. Approving that deal based on that study wasn't too clever at all.
Clever on the part of Beasley perhaps, but a few councilors stated that the Hocking study was the only one they saw prior to the vote. Approving that deal based on that study wasn't too clever at all.
Oh, I agree. It is hard to find anything clever in that whole debacle. But Beasley did manage to keep the councilors in the dark and have them vote in favor of the Hulsizer deal. "Sly" might be a better description...
If they begin a study to assess costs now the results will probably come after all payments to the NHL have been made, and they can plead that they were ignorant when they are accused of providing a subsidy when they finally show that they have been grossly overpaying....
Thats an interesting trail of thought Whileee. City Staffers were being advised by the NHL against conducting the kind of studies being requested by Mayor Scruggs' ("harm the sale process") and as a result nothing was ever done. $25M obviously is a rude amount, right over the top, Glendale never even expected theyd' have to pay it, however now that they have and twice at that you could well be right. Providing themselves with a little cover in terms of timing. Still though, a few well placed phone calls & someone at the COG could quickly determine the "approximate" costs to manage that facility without a franchise & what kinds of options they'd be looking at. I find it improbable that private discussions havent been held & within a ballpark region they've just got to know what kind of topography their facing in management fee's etc.
This 550M$ is what it would cost putting every bell & whistles you could ever dream of. Like QcBlizzard already mentionned, it wouldn't be honest saying a Mercedes SLK 350's worth $74,875.00 knowing its base price is $66,500.00...
The city have decided right from the start they would go for the base model (still Mercedes though )
Between a Mercedes that does'nt start for electronical problems and my Forester, I think I better like my car LOL
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