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Old
02-02-2012, 02:22 PM
  #26
LeftCoast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickassguy View Post
Just like the Canucks since inception 'til the 2000s... hey, more parallels between franchises!

I should've specified modern-era Wings.
The New Era for the Canucks started with the Acquilini's in 2004 and Mike Gillis in 2008.

The Red Wings were the Death Things from the late 60's until the early 80's.

Detroit: 1982 - new owner Mike Illitch, new GM Jimmy Devellano. Bruce Norris sold the team to Mike Illitch who hired Jim Devellano. Current GM Ken Holland was an assistant/Co-GM with Devellano/Bowman for several years before succeeding him. Devallano is still in the organization. The Wings have missed the playoffs twice (and not since 1989) since Illitch bought the team.

Under this leadership group, the Wings talent almost seamlessly evolved from the Yzerman, Federov, Shannahan to the 5 Russians, to Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. But the organization has remained a winner. I don't know how the Wings will replace Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but the organization just seems to find a way. They have some good prospects in Tatar, Nyquist and Brenden Smith, but I don't see a future superstar in the system.

Anyways, when Mike Gillis took over, he mentioned GMs such as Lou Lamoriello, Jimmy Devellano and Ken Holland as the model for success.

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Old
02-02-2012, 02:24 PM
  #27
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Let me remind you people, the OP said "I think this season is going to be our last chance to be favored to win the Cup with our current core".

So basically "the Sedin's Canucks" window is coming to end in few years. I don't agree with this being the last but it's still coming (they have 2 years left after this season, they will be 34 when their deal ends). Next year will be pretty much the same as it's now, and for the Sedin's final year Edler, Burrows and Hodgson need new contracts.

So when you count last year in which IMO was the best year to succeed in terms on contracts, this year and next year, it's a three year window for the current core. The Sedin's final year is more difficult (new contracts needed to few players) but of course still doable, just remains to be seen how the management deals with it.

Detroit has been one of the best teams in the league for years but aside Lidström, the players that make their success possible have changed. From Fedorov to Datsyuk and so on.

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Old
02-02-2012, 02:29 PM
  #28
chopkins
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We should ice just as good of a roster next season...

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Hodgson-Kesler
Higgins-Schroeder-Hansen
Lapierre-Malhotra-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Ballard
Alberts-Salo

Luongo
Schneider

The bolded players are the only ones who aren't under contract next season. Weise won't get much of a raise. If Salo keeps playing I doubt he'll demand a raise either. Schneider will get a couple million dollar raise if he re-signs. If he doesn't, Lack fills the back-up role on a cheap contract. The Canucks could even offload Ballard and Malhotra and use that cap space to upgrade elsewhere. That's a total of $6.7 million tied up in their contracts.

I have absolutely no idea how someone can think our window is closing this season. Most of our team is under 30 and only getting better.

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Old
02-02-2012, 02:52 PM
  #29
billvanseattle
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I think Jensen will be vieing for a spot next year tooo.

I wish they would put a soft cap in place of the existing one in the next agreement.

allow teams to spend up to $5M more at a dollar for dollar penalty. Another $5M at $2/$ penalty.

But on topic, the Canucks seem to have a pretty good core for years to come.


Last edited by billvanseattle: 02-02-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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Old
02-02-2012, 02:54 PM
  #30
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We won't stand a chance against Chicago next year.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:10 PM
  #31
aandbreatheme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flack View Post
We won't stand a chance against Chicago next year.
What's going to be so special about them next year?

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02-02-2012, 03:11 PM
  #32
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Ignoring the fact that our core is all locked up for next season, if Hodgson and Schnider hadn't developed they way they did, I could ALMOST understand the concerns about the window closing, because then it would appear that no new blood was coming into the system.

And thanks for the reminder about Yzerman, Wetcoaster. I lived through all of that, and yet it seems so much like a distant and totally misremembered memory about Stevie being an unproven guy who wasn't able to win it all. Winning does have a funny way of making everyone forget that they thought you "sucked".

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:11 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by andbreatheme View Post
What's going to be so special about them next year?
Young team (young core) that will improve quickly. You saw that from 2009 to 2010 how much better they got.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:34 PM
  #34
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Windows aren't based on current rosters. Rosters change, players get injured, have streaks/ slumps etc.

A team's competitive window is based on the resources of the organization. We currently have a rich organization that plays to the cap, pour tons of $$ into development and other competitive variables such as the things Gillis has introduced here (skills coaching, nutritionists, sleep studies, etc), and most importantly a capable/ competent GM who doesn't have any financial restrictions on improving the organization.

We are lucky right now. Great organization that attracts top talents and has players willing to take less to play here, fantastic GM and even our much criticized coach has a long history of good player development and getting the most out of assets he's given.

I'm not at all worried about this organization's window. The Sedins have a few years left playing at a top level, and beyond that we have an extremely capable GM running a rich organization. This team's window will be open for a while yet.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:40 PM
  #35
Royal Canuck
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We have a genrerally young squad, we have 1-3 more years of being the favorites.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:45 PM
  #36
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Our core is still here but I do agree with you to some extent. I think the more important thing is the drive and hunger to get back to the Cup finals because we all know how hard it was to get there. If all the guys are willing to work their tails off, which I believe they will, then that will tell how long the window is for this team. Personally, if the core of this team stays together and healthy, this team has another 3-4 years for SOLID chances at the Cup.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:48 PM
  #37
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The more successful you are as franchise, the better chance you have of signing free agents and for current players to take a discount to stay with the program.

And if you can draft, sign free agents (Tanev, Lack) and develop and make shrewd deals, then the team can remain at the top longer.

It also helps if you are team that can spend to the cap and invest money in non-capped areas that contribute to the team winning.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:52 PM
  #38
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I think its all going to depend on the next couple of drafts tbh.
We have a lot of pieces in place for the next couple of seasons:

Hodgson- Pretty much ready for 2nd line duties, likely to be a calder finalist this season
Tanev- NHL ready, only in Chicago to gain more experience, solid player but would be nice if he could improve his offensive game
Shroeder- Looked good in pre-season, if Hodgson moves up to 2nd line could well find a space open up on the 3rd
Jensen- May well challenge for a place next season but will likely stay back down for a bit more experience, could be a 3rd line lock in a couple of seasons though.
Connauton- By the sounds of it really improving and putting up some real good points, could well form a beautiful partnership on the bottom pairing with Tanev next season.
Lack- Has the talent to be the next Schnieder, NHL back-up ready.

But we could certainly do with more depth on the Blueline as short of Tanev and Connauton I can't really see anyone who shows that sort of potential (To be honest I didn't think KCon would have made it but he has improved loads)

A couple of good drafts and we could well be laughing, MG has already proven his trading abilities now if he can pick us up a nice big #1 D-man (Weber please!) and a few nice prospects and the future looks rosy!

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Old
02-02-2012, 04:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
While true, a new window could easily open depending on what Gillis brings us in. Lets say in 2 years Gillis lets Malhotra go, re-signs Burrows for 3mil per year, re-signs Higgins for 2.5mil per year, re-signs LaPierre for 1.25mil per year, re-signs Edler for 5.8mil per year, signs Weber for 6.8mil per year, re-signs Hodgson for 2.2mil per year, etc etc.

We have an excellent framework to be competitive past our 2 year window, I don't think it's that clear cut and dry.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Hodgson-Kesler
Higgins-Schroeder-Hansen
xxx-LaPierre-Jensen

Edler-Weber
Hamhuis-Bieksa
xxx-Tanev

Luongo/xxx


It's all on Gillis. We do have some youth coming up that seems like they MAY make the NHL in Schroeder, Jensen, and Tanev. Add to that some free agent signings, HOPEFULLY the major acquisition of Weber, and the idea that the twins can remain PPG players until their late 30's and we seem okay. Eventually Hodgson will take that #2C spot pushing Kesler to wing, which is perfectly fine for him as a shooter. I think we've built a decent blueprint here to be competitive longterm, we need to keep drafting effectively and bringing in young players with potential as much as possible.

This is why we CANNOT trade Hodgson at all costs. He will be a completely vital part of this team in 2 years time, we need him.
Salary cap anyone?

Roughly
Burrows +1mil
Elder +2.5mil
Weber vs Ballard's contract + 2.6mil
Hodgson (since bonus can be carried over) + 1.6mil
Hansen also needs a raise and lets assume Salo + Tanev/Hansen salary are a wash (Tanev would be a RFA, Hansen UFA)
Malholtra -2mil (500k for replacement)

Thats a +5.7mil in cap hit... with a new CBA coming up, doubtful the cap will go up that much in the 2 year period. On top of Weber taking less money than his current contract while being a UFA (realistically probably market value close to 8mil... more if cap go up 6mil). Drew Doughty got 7x7 deal as a RFA so there's no doubt that's a baseline deal for a UFA Weber (probably more as a UFA). The UFA years in Doughty's deal is 7.4-7.6mil... probably the min Weber will take. Chara's UFA deal (when the cap was lower) for reference was also 7.5mil and even his new contract has a cap hit just under 7mil (at 34).

The Canucks window realistically will be open for a while. Just look at the Red Wings... they have been contenders virtually every year... sure they have off years but bounce back. Canucks are trying to implement a similar system. Even if they just slip into the playoffs, they are always a threat.

Also the Pens won the 2nd year when they has a lesser team (-Hossa). They just had a better playoff runs. The 'nucks last year ran into injuries last year (you could argue thats a result of more depth in the West/more physical game/better teams/etc).

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Old
02-02-2012, 04:29 PM
  #40
VinnyC
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Our immediate window so to speak is until 2012-13 when some good deals expire (Edler, Kesler, Burrows, Higgins). I think Higgy can re-sign for a similar amount if he keeps up his play, but each of the other three will be looking, at the bare minimum, for at least $1M raise. I think at "worst", accounting for a bit of inflation, Burrows would command 4M, Edler 5.5M and Kesler 7M. That's a huge hit to the cap.

By the time Sedins/Luongo/KB3/Burrows start dropping off, Gillis will need to keep working hard to improve our prospect pool. I like what he's done so far so I'm not that concerned, but his next few years will be absolutely crucial for the franchise's next decade or so (every year is important but...). At this point, it seems like we'll remain competitive but Hodgson aside there's little top 6/pairing potential.

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Old
02-02-2012, 04:34 PM
  #41
KISSland
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^ Kesler expires in 2015-2016?

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Old
02-02-2012, 04:40 PM
  #42
NFITO
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Yup, Kesler has 4 more years on his deal after this one... Longer than the Sedins and Booth. Only current Canucks with longer contracts are Luongo and Bieksa.

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Old
02-02-2012, 05:32 PM
  #43
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I think I'm more worried about a lockout next year than the contract situation or natural decline.

The 1994 Canucks took a hit from the huge layoff after their run, too.

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Old
02-02-2012, 05:40 PM
  #44
me2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wholesickcrew View Post
Yes.



The better logic would be a look at what contracts come up at this point, as has been discussed elsewhere.
white paint.

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Old
02-02-2012, 05:57 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Whale View Post
RW fan coming in piece...I dont buy this logic and actually think its piss poor. The Canucks have a solid foundation in Kesler, Sedin, Sedin...Hodgson is going to come along too...Your D is good as any top team in the NHL..

The Canucks have become a top team in the league and eventually you'll see older vets wanting to play their...Dont worry about the past and or that you have to do it this year...its incredibly hard to win the Cup and the Canucks have the talent for at least the next 5 years to win the cup

Cheers, we are in for a doozy tonight
Solid post, I agree with this analysis.

Canucks will have a strong team as long as our core is locked up. Hodgson is really helping at his price right now too.

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Old
02-02-2012, 06:46 PM
  #46
VinnyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
^ Kesler expires in 2015-2016?
Whoops, for some reason I assumed he was on the same boat as Edler. A bit easier on us, I guess but he'll hit his prime when the contract expires so maybe that's something to think about.

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Old
02-02-2012, 06:54 PM
  #47
Todds Chiropractory
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Our window stays open as long as the Sedins hold it open. Simple as that IMO.

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Old
02-02-2012, 06:56 PM
  #48
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Whoops, for some reason I assumed he was on the same boat as Edler. A bit easier on us, I guess but he'll hit his prime when the contract expires so maybe that's something to think about.
Kesler is in his prime right now at 27 yrs old. His current contract expires after he's 31 - will be 32 before the start of his next season post current contract. It's much more likely he'll be coming out of his prime when his contract expires than just hitting it - especially when you consider that players that play the hard-nosed gritty game that he does usually pass their prime at a younger age due to the wear and tear on their bodies.

We have Kesler locked up through what should be his most productive seasons - basically through the duration of most of his prime years.

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Old
02-02-2012, 06:57 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Whoops, for some reason I assumed he was on the same boat as Edler. A bit easier on us, I guess but he'll hit his prime when the contract expires so maybe that's something to think about.
I don't think a player like Kesler hits his prime at age 31, if anything he'll be a bit more on the decline. Kesler is in an interesting situation when his contract expires, Gillis may be unwilling to commit to a heavy contract again knowing players who go as hard as Kesler usually have an earlier expiry date. Kesler on the other hand, it'll be his last chance to cash in with a big contract, and some team will overpay. I personally could see us losing Kesler after his current contract is done.

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Old
02-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #50
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I don't know why some fans are so quick to move our Selke winning second-line center to the wing.

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