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Old
02-02-2012, 01:28 PM
  #51
pucky
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Originally Posted by Kamal007 View Post
Schenn didn't shut down anyone. Phaneuf shut down Malkin. Schenn didn't get blown up when Malkin found his way out against him, thats all. I am against trading Schenn but can we stop saying he "shut down" Malkin? The guy playing 25+ minutes shut down malkin. Schenn just didn't look bad once or twice, when Malkin was out there.
That's B.S. In the first period, Schenn kept up with Malkin and shadowed him. Even the Pittsburgh announcers noticed it. Considering how biased and homer-ish they are by Leaf fans, that is saying something.

Your assessment is nonsense.

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02-02-2012, 01:30 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by pucky View Post
That's B.S. In the first period, Schenn kept up with Malkin and shadowed him. Even the Pittsburgh announcers noticed it. Considering how biased and homer-ish they are by Leaf fans, that is saying something.

Your assessment is nonsense.
Defensemen's icetime vs Malkin:

Phaneuf: 13.9 mins
Gunnarsson: 12.9 mins
Gardiner: 3.4 mins
Schenn: 2.6 mins
Franson: 1.2 mins
Liles: 0.6 mins

playing against Malkin for 2 Min is not shutting him down, one good shift against Malkin is not shutting down Malkin for the whole game. Don't descredit Dion and Gunnar so you can boast Schenn's value. Schenn played an effective 14min and that is that.

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02-02-2012, 01:31 PM
  #53
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Schenn won't be traded.

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02-02-2012, 01:34 PM
  #54
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the anti schenn group isnt smart enough to realize a Dman does not mature until mid 20's, they want to see our top draft pick in last 17 years to mature elsewhere and for us to trade him away..

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02-02-2012, 01:37 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Wendelstache View Post
Defensemen's icetime vs Malkin:

Phaneuf: 13.9 mins
Gunnarsson: 12.9 mins
Gardiner: 3.4 mins
Schenn: 2.6 mins
Franson: 1.2 mins
Liles: 0.6 mins

playing against Malkin for 2 Min is not shutting him down, one good shift against Malkin is not shutting down Malkin for the whole game. Don't descredit Dion and Gunnar so you can boast Schenn's value. Schenn played an effective 14min and that is that.
I didn't say anything negative about Gunnarsson. I am sure Dion likes him as his partner so he doesn't have to do much.

Gardiner looked shaky in the 2nd game so I think the fact Schenn looked pretty solid shows he played well despite Gardiner's struggling.

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02-02-2012, 01:43 PM
  #56
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While Schenn's mobility is an issue (this year has been both bad and good in that regard), I think that can be compensated for by his defense partner and learning good positional play. But that is not my biggest concern with him though.

During the 1st half of the season he just looked... lost out there. Making bad judgements, being hesitant, that's what really worried me. I'm not so sure those can be coached away. I'd be curious what some of you guys think in that respect.

So on the trade Schenn question, I'm not sure. I think waiting another year makes sense as the leafs are not contending this year, so we have the luxury of time to see if things improve in his game. Also, not nearly as important, but on the outside chance his brother Braydon starts tearing things up in Philly, I think that will help improve his trade value a bit.

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02-02-2012, 01:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mpolo View Post
While Schenn's mobility is an issue (this year has been both bad and good in that regard), I think that can be compensated for by his defense partner and learning good positional play. But that is not my biggest concern with him though.

During the 1st half of the season he just looked... lost out there. Making bad judgements, being hesitant, that's what really worried me. I'm not so sure those can be coached away. I'd be curious what some of you guys think in that respect.

So on the trade Schenn question, I'm not sure. I think waiting another year makes sense as the leafs are not contending this year, so we have the luxury of time to see if things improve in his game. Also, not nearly as important, but on the outside chance his brother Braydon starts tearing things up in Philly, I think that will help improve his trade value a bit.
I actually thought the defensive pairings looked good. They complement each other pretty well.

Phaneuf probably has the best all-around dman to work with in Gunnarsson so he can keep being lazy.

Liles is the experienced one with some O and decent D and has some mobility so is a good complement to Franson.

Schenn's lack of mobility is compensated for with Gardiner who is probably the best skater of all the dmen. It's only those two that are a bit of a concern with consistency and Gardiner's inexperience. Normally, those two should both have experienced partners but maybe it's good to have them have them play in the middle in terms of minutes played. Until Schenn gets his confidence back and bring Gardiner around gradually. He's looked pretty clueless the last game as the checking and play became tighter.

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Old
02-02-2012, 02:00 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
the anti schenn group isnt smart enough to realize a Dman does not mature until mid 20's, they want to see our top draft pick in last 17 years to mature elsewhere and for us to trade him away..
Usually, defensemen who mature in their mid 20s are guys who had to grow into their bodies or accumulate enough pro experience to know what they're doing. Schenn is a fully grown man and has been for some time and he has almost 300 games of experience. I'm not saying he's maxed out his potential, but when his development goes back to ground zero every other year, that's a problem. When is he switching on the lightbulb?

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02-02-2012, 02:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Usually, defensemen who mature in their mid 20s are guys who had to grow into their bodies or accumulate enough pro experience to know what they're doing. Schenn is a fully grown man and has been for some time and he has almost 300 games of experience. I'm not saying he's maxed out his potential, but when his development goes back to ground zero every other year, that's a problem. When is he switching on the lightbulb?

He put on pounds of muscle over the summer.
And is now extremely slow on the ice.

I think he will do better getting lean and faster and trying to "learn" how to be a better defender. He will never be fast like Gardiner but maybe he can become "smart" like Gill.

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02-02-2012, 02:09 PM
  #60
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I agree, I'd really rather not see schenn traded.

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02-02-2012, 02:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
Schenn needs to stay..he is our future Captain

I would rather trade first round pick and a foward for the power forward we need than trade Schenn
We don't desperately 'need' him at all, I'd be ready to give him up for the right deal any day.

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02-02-2012, 02:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
He put on pounds of muscle over the summer.
And is now extremely slow on the ice.

I think he will do better getting lean and faster and trying to "learn" how to be a better defender. He will never be fast like Gardiner but maybe he can become "smart" like Gill.
At one point, Schenn was the next Scott Stevens, which got scaled back to Adam Foote during his cup winning days, or Robyn Regehr, and now people are attaching names like Hal Gill to his potential.

In order for him to be such an integral piece to the puzzle to the Leafs, he has to be way more than "smart" like Hal Gill. He has to develop a two way game and be a rock defensively. Is that too much to ask of Schenn? I don't know. But that's the only way he can be included as a core player. Otherwise, he's just the same class of defenseman as a Komisarek or Gill.

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02-02-2012, 02:49 PM
  #63
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Schenn looked really good last night. Trading him could come back to bite us in a big way.

Only way i would support him beig traded is if it was huge overpayment.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:08 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Briecheeze View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sdDZunmjZ8

I'm not sure you watch Leafs games. I've read your points. They aren't great.

And defensemen don't necessarily need to be physical to be effective. Nicklas Lidstrom has made a hall-of-fame career out of playing the right angles and forcing his man to take the wrong path. Gardiner does the same thing.

Komisarek might be phyiscal, but he's certainly made his share of defensive gaffes in years past. Certainly, Aulie has had rough times this year, but so has Schenn. Again, given the cost-benefit of who to trade and given what the Leafs have on hand, trading Schenn is the most likely way to get the physical top-six forward the Leafs need.

I'm not saying that it will happen, or that it's likely to happen (who's available on the trade market that fits the bill?). I'm not trying to run Schenn out of town either - I like him. But if the Leafs want to address their needs, Schenn is the most likely trade candidate, and that's the truth.

If you're worried about having enough enforcers or protection, there's Brown, Armstrong, and Rosehill.
Look at it this way....Luke Schenn is the most marketable Leafs defender that Burke has as a trading chip...why is something highly marketable?

Because the demand is high and in this case the supply is ONE......Why is the demand high for Luke Schenn? Why do other GMs come knocking for the likes of Luke Schenn and not others when talking about pieces used to acquire top line talent?

The answer is obvious...because Luke Schenn is the best defensive prospect the Leafs have....I know Jake Gardiner is sexy with his finesse passing and slick skating, I know that Cody Franson can really shoot the puck, I know Gunnarrson is farily reliable and steady, plays well with Phaneuf....and I know that nobody wants Komisarek....Phaneuf is not up for grabs and Liles has been signed for 4 years.

Schenn is really the only guy sought after by other GMs..the guy is in his 4th year in the NHL and he is 22.....Offensive D like Gardiner impress at much younger ages...look at Doughty, Karlsson, Weber and even Phanuef when he broke in....put up the points, make the nice passes and people are forgiving of your defensive brain cramps.....when defense is your game and you have defensive brain cramps because of your age/experience, it becomes way more glaring... Schenn is probably a few year away from peaking, given the style of game he plays...He is a bit on the slow side, but I believe he will be one hell of a defenseman one day and he does have the makings of a good captain, IMO. There are at least 5 other D I'd trade before Luke Schenn on the TML...problem is...the other GMs aren't coming knocking for those guys.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:15 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightta View Post
Rumors of Luke Schenn's defensive prowess are greatly exaggerated. I like Schenn but the way people talk about his defensive play makes it sound like he's Norris quality. He makes many mistakes, mostly due to his inability to think the game and adapt to situations. He still struggles with clearing the puck (but who on our team doesn't?), boxing out forwards, tying up sticks, poor positioning, poor pinching choices, poor puck handling and poor foot speed (if he was better positionally this wouldn't be an issue and vice versa). He has a decent first pass, is physical, blocks shots and is effective when he plays a simple game. Schenn often tries to do too much and perhaps just isn't a good fit for the system Wilson employs.

Schenn has potential, but not as much as many originally thought and he's certainly not playing up to the level of someone with his raw abilities four years into his career. I expect more from Schenn and he's not delivering. IF he's needed to secure a trade for a young impact (not used synonymously here with elite) forward then so be it.
The thing is he's young still very young in fact. He does get burnt from time to time yes but that's just the learning curve not everyone progresses at the same rate. I mean in TOI he's ranked 6th on the team. Plus he's on pace to match his point totals from last season with less ice time and he's on pace for +9 last season he was -7. Numbers don't tell the whole story but people have to admit that he is progressing. just because he's not getting as much ice time per game does not mean he's regressed.

He's young still learning and has a lot of potential to be a primer shut down defenseman in the NHL. He may need another year or two before he is able to put it all together but if he does he's going to be just as important as any defenseman who can put up 40-50 points. People are way to hypocritical of these young players, not just Schenn but, Kadri, Aulie, Frattin, Gardiner, even Colborne.

Give the kids a chance they have extremely high potential if they work out great if they don't oh well you hope some of your other prospect do. Sign key free agents and move forward with keeping your prospect pools deep and working through free agency and make trades that make seance for your club. Most of the fans around here only want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. I don't really understand the fascination with moving your promising young players because they haven't reached super stardom.

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02-02-2012, 03:18 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Look at it this way....Luke Schenn is the most marketable Leafs defender that Burke has as a trading chip...why is something highly marketable?

Because the demand is high and in this case the supply is ONE......Why is the demand high for Luke Schenn? Why do other GMs come knocking for the likes of Luke Schenn and not others when talking about pieces used to acquire top line talent?

The answer is obvious...because Luke Schenn is the best defensive prospect the Leafs have....I know Jake Gardiner is sexy with his finesse passing and slick skating, I know that Cody Franson can really shoot the puck, I know Gunnarrson is farily reliable and steady, plays well with Phaneuf....and I know that nobody wants Komisarek....Phaneuf is not up for grabs and Liles has been signed for 4 years.

Schenn is really the only guy sought after by other GMs..the guy is in his 4th year in the NHL and he is 22.....Offensive D like Gardiner impress at much younger ages...look at Doughty, Karlsson, Weber and even Phanuef when he broke in....put up the points, make the nice passes and people are forgiving of your defensive brain cramps.....when defense is your game and you have defensive brain cramps because of your age/experience, it becomes way more glaring... Schenn is probably a few year away from peaking, given the style of game he plays...He is a bit on the slow side, but I believe he will be one hell of a defenseman one day and he does have the makings of a good captain, IMO. There are at least 5 other D I'd trade before Luke Schenn on the TML...problem is...the other GMs aren't coming knocking for those guys.
100% agree with this. Trading Schenn would be a HUGE mistake and everyone will realize this AFTER we lose him.

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Old
02-02-2012, 03:23 PM
  #67
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Trade Kessel

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02-02-2012, 04:15 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Look at it this way....Luke Schenn is the most marketable Leafs defender that Burke has as a trading chip...why is something highly marketable?

Because the demand is high and in this case the supply is ONE......Why is the demand high for Luke Schenn? Why do other GMs come knocking for the likes of Luke Schenn and not others when talking about pieces used to acquire top line talent?

The answer is obvious...because Luke Schenn is the best defensive prospect the Leafs have....I know Jake Gardiner is sexy with his finesse passing and slick skating, I know that Cody Franson can really shoot the puck, I know Gunnarrson is farily reliable and steady, plays well with Phaneuf....and I know that nobody wants Komisarek....Phaneuf is not up for grabs and Liles has been signed for 4 years.

Schenn is really the only guy sought after by other GMs..the guy is in his 4th year in the NHL and he is 22.....Offensive D like Gardiner impress at much younger ages...look at Doughty, Karlsson, Weber and even Phanuef when he broke in....put up the points, make the nice passes and people are forgiving of your defensive brain cramps.....when defense is your game and you have defensive brain cramps because of your age/experience, it becomes way more glaring... Schenn is probably a few year away from peaking, given the style of game he plays...He is a bit on the slow side, but I believe he will be one hell of a defenseman one day and he does have the makings of a good captain, IMO. There are at least 5 other D I'd trade before Luke Schenn on the TML...problem is...the other GMs aren't coming knocking for those guys.


Awesome post!

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Old
02-02-2012, 04:28 PM
  #69
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We...I know this. Me thinks you may be a little high on yourself.
Yeah, it was probably a bit too snarky. I just thought this was actually a troll thread, based on the literacy level.

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02-02-2012, 04:54 PM
  #70
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I don't think Burke has any intention in trading Schenn unless it's an offer he cannot refuse in that the return is > than Schenn in every conceivable way like Getzlaf. Otherwise we're keeping him it's the right call.

I believe Burke is looking to tweak only, which is to say he wants to remove two or maybe three contracts from this team and add a forward with size

1. Komisarek
2. Connolly
3. Lombardi

If we were to lose these 3 three players, we can replace them with internal depth. Unless a big deal falls in Burke's lap, I doubt we're going to remove or add much of interest.

Really the only thing we really should do is drop one of our D and get a forward with size who can help out our cycle game down low on the 3rd line.

sure that is ideal, and i agree with you that these would be the players we could part with. but the problem is they all have fairly large contracts, which makes them hard to move. not only that, they are overpaid, they play worse than their contracts dictate they should, another reason it would be hard to move them. also they are all bottom tier players, unless you find a team that needs depth and has some cap room, itll be hard to move them. also and unless whatever is coming back is a pick or an ufa, it would be useful anyways.

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02-02-2012, 06:43 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Look at it this way....Luke Schenn is the most marketable Leafs defender that Burke has as a trading chip...why is something highly marketable?

Because the demand is high and in this case the supply is ONE......Why is the demand high for Luke Schenn? Why do other GMs come knocking for the likes of Luke Schenn and not others when talking about pieces used to acquire top line talent?

The answer is obvious...because Luke Schenn is the best defensive prospect the Leafs have....I know Jake Gardiner is sexy with his finesse passing and slick skating, I know that Cody Franson can really shoot the puck, I know Gunnarrson is farily reliable and steady, plays well with Phaneuf....and I know that nobody wants Komisarek....Phaneuf is not up for grabs and Liles has been signed for 4 years.

Schenn is really the only guy sought after by other GMs..the guy is in his 4th year in the NHL and he is 22.....Offensive D like Gardiner impress at much younger ages...look at Doughty, Karlsson, Weber and even Phanuef when he broke in....put up the points, make the nice passes and people are forgiving of your defensive brain cramps.....when defense is your game and you have defensive brain cramps because of your age/experience, it becomes way more glaring... Schenn is probably a few year away from peaking, given the style of game he plays...He is a bit on the slow side, but I believe he will be one hell of a defenseman one day and he does have the makings of a good captain, IMO. There are at least 5 other D I'd trade before Luke Schenn on the TML...problem is...the other GMs aren't coming knocking for those guys.
Thanks for this.

I'm very happy that Schenn is still a Leaf, and I hope that doesn't change any time soon.

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Old
02-02-2012, 06:50 PM
  #72
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There's this nervousness Schenn has with the puck when making his first pass and he commits a lot of errors because of that. Not direct giveaways, but maybe an errant pass that causes the Leafs to lose possession. That nervousness with the puck has been a constant in his game for the past 4 years, if he can get over that he'll be something special.

That's my only real qualm with Schenn.

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02-02-2012, 07:00 PM
  #73
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i am a huge fan. I do not want to teade schenn unless it bring in getzlaf or better. (stastny and e staal based on salary would be put under getzlaf)

A schenn trade will come back to haunt us just look at his shift against malkin thats what he needs, an assingment. Schenn see Malkin, dont let him score hit him whenever possible and he excelled at it, wow that one shift.... wow

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02-02-2012, 07:33 PM
  #74
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In 3 years we will be saying " I can't believe we even talked about trading this guy" The guy is a vital part of our team.

The only way we trade him is if he's the starting part of a package to land a top 10 centre in the NHL back or a top 5 goalie. I don't expect either of those to present it self so Schenn goes no where.

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02-02-2012, 07:51 PM
  #75
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Trade Gunnarsson please. I want Schenn.

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