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2012-2013 CIS Recruiting

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Old
09-08-2012, 08:50 AM
  #351
FreddtFoyle
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The academic standards are similar at all of the universities in the Maritimes, or Canada for that matter, and shouldn't be questioned. While it may certainly be easier to get into some programs at some schools (different admission standards or more flexibility, program enrollment caps due to supply and demand, etc.) you still have to do the work to be successful and earn the degree. Degree programs have to be accredited, and employers have to be confident that say a new Engineer from UNB has learned the same skills as one from Dal.

In other words, academic standards are NOT the same as admission standards.

So all things being relatively equal, it is quite clear why student-athletes transfer to UNB for their last year of eligibilty: a better chance to play for a championship.

Bryce Swan's tweets this morning:

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Would like to thank @StFXAthletics and everyone involved with @XMenhockey for an amazing 4 years! Wearing the blue and white was an honor
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But very excited to play for @UNBHockey this upcoming season and wear the @VarsityReds while doing my MBA and competing for a championship

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09-08-2012, 09:45 AM
  #352
STUTOMMIES
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Bryce Swan's tweets this morning:[/QUOTE]

Agreed, he gets to compete for a championship at UNB. I thought he did at X each year as well. The difference being (total speculation on my part, nothing more) he wasn't going to be eligible to enter a graduate program at X.

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09-08-2012, 09:52 AM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STUTOMMIES View Post
Bryce Swan's tweets this morning:

Agreed, he gets to compete for a championship at UNB. I thought he did at X each year as well. The difference being (total speculation on my part, nothing more) he wasn't going to be eligible to enter a graduate program at X.
Dunno about that, but UNB has an MBA program and StFX doesn't. Nor do STU or Acadia. Business Administration or Commerce are the most popular degree programs for hockey players in the AUS, and a lot of those student-athletes want to continue and get their MBA. So it is certainly a recruiting advantage for those schools that have degree progams that match players' interests.


Last edited by FreddtFoyle: 09-08-2012 at 10:06 AM. Reason: BBA stuff, grammar
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09-08-2012, 10:05 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
Dunno about that, but UNB has an MBA program and StFX doesn't. Not does STU or Acadia.
You got me there. HA HA

But SMU has a very reputable graduate business program and a good hockey team. Not seeing as many 5th year hockey players there. Hockey players probably wouldn't want to attend a "good" school with a "good" hockey program, would they?

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09-08-2012, 10:24 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by STUTOMMIES View Post
You got me there. HA HA

But SMU has a very reputable graduate business program and a good hockey team. Not seeing as many 5th year hockey players there. Hockey players probably wouldn't want to attend a "good" school with a "good" hockey program, would they?
Yes, you got me there. Due to size of Halifax, and NS being bigger than NB, it is probably harder to get a spot in Dal's or SMU's MBA program than UNB's (but I don't know the facts or stats on that). Yes, the Halifax MBA programs both have a fine reputation (one of my brothers graduated from SMU's), but UNB's is no slouch either.

But marketing and supply and demand have an outsized effect on school reputations in my opinion. For example, lots of young people want to go to Halifax or Montreal to go to univeristy. They're fun places. That helps create supply. When there's lots of supply, schools can be more selective who they let in - the cream of the crop with the higher grades. Those who manage to get in start to feel "better" than those who didn't make the cut. This increases the brand of the school, and you get a snowball effect as the demand goes up to go to that "good" school, just because it is "hard to get into". Which doesn't necessarily mean it is a good school from the student's perspective when it comes to teaching and learning.

Right now first and second year Engineering students at Dal have to take lectures in a nearby movie theatre off-campus because they don't have enough large classrooms. Do you think that is a better learning environment for the Engineering student than at StFX, Acadia, UPEI or UNB where they have real classrooms and probably smaller class sizes?

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09-08-2012, 10:33 AM
  #356
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What exactly are some of you non-UNB guys hinting at? Is UNB the Univ of Miami of the CIS? As Canadians we don't want to consider our public institutions to be corrupt but individuals within those institutions could be motivated to aggrandize their reputations to be winners for reasons that could cover the spectrum from career advancement to notoriety to monetary gain. It's only a crime if you get caught!!

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09-08-2012, 11:00 AM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
Yes, you got me there. Due to size of Halifax, and NS being bigger than NB, it is probably harder to get a spot in Dal's or SMU's MBA program than UNB's (but I don't know the facts or stats on that). Yes, the Halifax MBA programs both have a fine reputation (one of my brothers graduated from SMU's), but UNB's is no slouch either.

But marketing and supply and demand have an outsized effect on school reputations in my opinion. For example, lots of young people want to go to Halifax or Montreal to go to univeristy. They're fun places. That helps create supply. When there's lots of supply, schools can be more selective who they let in - the cream of the crop with the higher grades. Those who manage to get in start to feel "better" than those who didn't make the cut. This increases the brand of the school, and you get a snowball effect as the demand goes up to go to that "good" school, just because it is "hard to get into". Which doesn't necessarily mean it is a good school from the student's perspective when it comes to teaching and learning.

Right now first and second year Engineering students at Dal have to take lectures in a nearby movie theatre off-campus because they don't have enough large classrooms. Do you think that is a better learning environment for the Engineering student than at StFX, Acadia, UPEI or UNB where they have real classrooms and probably smaller class sizes?
If you are talking about Engineering then I would say that UNB has an excellent reputation and shouldn't take a back seat to any University....probably in the country.

I agree with what you have said above and I would call that prestige. IMO, UNB does its academic reputation a disservice by allowing so many "hockey" students into its graduate business program. which leads me to believe (supply and demand be damned) that it really isn't interested in fostering a good academic rep. But seriously, how many employers look at John Smith MBA and say "Oh, thats from UNB, get lost". They don't, so ultimately I don't think that my POV matters much after all.

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What exactly are some of you non-UNB guys hinting at? Is UNB the Univ of Miami of the CIS? As Canadians we don't want to consider our public institutions to be corrupt but individuals within those institutions could be motivated to aggrandize their reputations to be winners for reasons that could cover the spectrum from career advancement to notoriety to monetary gain. It's only a crime if you get caught!!
WH, don't read anything into my stupidity. I am just poking at the proverbial Squirrel nest looking to see what happens. The truth is UNB runs a very legitimate hockey program, well oiled, and they do it within the rules. If they beat you enough all you have left is any excuse that justifies what you want to believe. Reality is a bitter pill my friend.

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09-08-2012, 11:01 AM
  #358
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Not sure what you're implying Wilcox.

It may be easier to get into grad studies at UNB than say U of Alberta. Sure. Here's why.

While UNB is the oldest public university in Canada (1785), and a research-intensive institution, it is first and foremost a provincial university, with the bulk of their students coming from New Brunswick. And due to demographic shifts, and outward migration due to job searches (massively impacted by the oilpatch in Alberta), there are fewer and fewer New Brunswick high school students each year. So UNB isn't swamped by applications for most of their programs, and can't always afford to be selective if they want to keep enrollment up. Which means they may be forced to accept more students closer to the minimum standards than they'd like.

Now once they're in grad school all students are assesed equally. Maybe those "marginal" students have to work harder than those with better grades coming in. Sure. But for your graduate degree you are assessed on what you do in grad school, not what you did as an undergraduate. And if you can't do the work, you flunk out.

Now does UNB have a reputation as being more flexible in how they treat student-athletes than some schools? Probably. The Business Faculty certainly has come to appreciate what good students the majority of this generation of recruited hockey players are, and thus are more flexible when course deadlines conflict with hockey travel. The Faculty make no bones about it - they are proud of what they accomplish off and on the ice. Are all the other Faculties at UNB as flexible? Maybe not. But the UNB VP-Academic and President are strong believers in the value of student-athletes and what they bring to the greater university community, and that trickles down.

If other schools aren't as supportive of their student-athletes as UNB, that's unfortunate. And don't forget, UNB doesn't have a varsity football team to fawn over and try to leverage with their alumni.


Last edited by FreddtFoyle: 09-08-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old
09-08-2012, 11:02 AM
  #359
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I was surprised to learn this year, after Pridham's and Swan's decision, that the 5th year rule says nothing about program availability. I was certain, the rule stated, at one time or another, you may play your 5th year for another team if a Graduate program is offered at that school and not where you played your four years. Otherwise, you had to play your fifth where you played your fourth, which was the rule for many years. The "Eirren (sp?) Rigby" ruling saw it change to the aforementioned, as long as that program was not offered at your school. I might add, I think that is more than fair, but opening it up to all kinds of laissez faire, free agencies, is only going to hasten the AUS to a commercial league. I thought something was amiss when Jimmy Cuddihy opted for UNB's program several years ago, but forgot about it. Now not one good player but two, and from different teams...I can see this trend developing and I'm not sure it is helpful.

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09-08-2012, 11:18 AM
  #360
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Next year's roster cap in the AUS will probably limit the movement of 5th year "free agents". Is a coach going to be as willing to commit one of his 21 skater spots for a "one-year wonder" and then let a first-year recruit slip through his fingers because he maxed his roster?

As for Jimmy Cuddihy, he told me at the time that he really wanted to do his MBA, and UNB accepted him before Dal did. So with UNB's acceptance, and the chance to play for the University Cup, he committed to UNB. Then he heard back from Dal. Too late. He did get a degree and a championship ring out of his decision.

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09-08-2012, 02:16 PM
  #361
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So wondering if while holding training camp and then open try outs if it is customary or common NOT to have a check in process or colored and numbered herseys assigned to players try outs?

Seems odd but am I missing something or is there a clear message there?

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09-08-2012, 02:44 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Evil View Post
So wondering if while holding training camp and then open try outs if it is customary or common NOT to have a check in process or colored and numbered herseys assigned to players try outs?

Seems odd but am I missing something or is there a clear message there?
Huh?

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09-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
Not sure what you're implying Wilcox.
The Univ of Miami reference is in relation to an exposed recruiting scandal last year that saw an alumnus contribute cash, cars, paid high end restaurant meals, accommodation, travel and on and on to players the school was keen on recruiting.

We can always say that it can't happen in Canada, but that is when it will.

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09-08-2012, 03:36 PM
  #364
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hooo hummmm.......Next Subject, we hear the same thing every year

As long as we keep winning Im happy, Most of the time Gardiner doesn't even have to recruit a player, theirs Todd Sparks, theirs a recruiting position by Dylan taylor, theirs the Alumni, the present players and recently departed, the fact we have not had a Losing season since 1990 a few CIS Championships, AUS Championships, 1st place Finishes. theirs a lot making the Big red Machine Work. While Yes players from all schools Can and do get a Pro Deal, Everyone knows your chances at UNB are Higher, because Scouts more often come to games at the Aitken Centre or when UNB is in a town close by cause they Know they aren't watching one single player, they have a team full of guys to watch every year.

One Day it will end, Could be Two Years, could be this season, Could be 10 years. and if we or anyone else is doing anything againts the rules, surely to god one day one player from the past few years, will say the wrong thing to the wrong person, and that Team will be Caught, Figure that would have happen by now at some point in the Past 20 Seasons if its going on.

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09-08-2012, 09:42 PM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
Next year's roster cap in the AUS will probably limit the movement of 5th year "free agents". Is a coach going to be as willing to commit one of his 21 skater spots for a "one-year wonder" and then let a first-year recruit slip through his fingers because he maxed his roster?.
Probably not, perhaps this new regulation "from the AD's" no less, was meant to curtail this sort of thing, as someone asked about its purpose earlier.

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Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
As for Jimmy Cuddihy, he told me at the time that he really wanted to do his MBA, and UNB accepted him before Dal did. So with UNB's acceptance, and the chance to play for the University Cup, he committed to UNB. Then he heard back from Dal. Too late. He did get a degree and a championship ring out of his decision
I'm not implying he did anything wrong, I am questioning the regulation, and when did it change? When I applied to Grad school, not that long ago, the deadline was end of February in the same year. Not sure about MBA application deadlines at UNB, but you aren't going to convince me he didn't have a plan in mind as his four year tenure ended at Dal, and long before any of us heard about it. Of course he is going to opt for UNB, so now, do Swan and Pridham, the regulation has gone to the dogs and it is only going to get worse, unless this roster limit does it. If that is the case, I'm all for it as the alternative is much worse.

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09-09-2012, 04:33 AM
  #366
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Andrew Wright (McGill) has signed with Idaho of the ECHL.

http://www.echl.com/trio-of-forwards...rsenal-p179015

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09-09-2012, 04:47 AM
  #367
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Former OHL captain Tyler Brown headed to UPEI.

http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/Sports/...nthers-squad/1

The article also mentions that UPEI will play UQTR on both September 21st and 22nd...interesting because UQTR is scheduled to play UNB on the 23rd at 2PM.

UQTR will also be playing at SMU and Acadia the next weekend so they are making quite the tour around the AUS.

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09-09-2012, 05:47 AM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STUpid View Post
Justifiably. UNB used 25 skaters last season.
FWIW....according to Elite Prospects UNB used 29 players last season...Concordia (31), Nipissing (30), Regina (30), and Laurier (31) all used more while Carleton, Ryerson and Calgary used the same number. Concordia has actually used more than 30 players in each of the previous 3 years, including 34 the year before last. So UNB might have a bigger roster than most teams but they are hardly all alone at the top in that regard.

http://eliteprospects.com/teamsearch2.php?LeagueID=127

Taking a closer look, it seems almost every team is using more players nowadays...in 2009/10 it looks like most teams used 23-26 players, but last year it was up to 25-28 players. However, I don't know how complete that data is.

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09-09-2012, 02:30 PM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNB Bruins Fan View Post
FWIW....according to Elite Prospects UNB used 29 players last season...Concordia (31), Nipissing (30), Regina (30), and Laurier (31) all used more while Carleton, Ryerson and Calgary used the same number. Concordia has actually used more than 30 players in each of the previous 3 years, including 34 the year before last. So UNB might have a bigger roster than most teams but they are hardly all alone at the top in that regard.

http://eliteprospects.com/teamsearch2.php?LeagueID=127

Taking a closer look, it seems almost every team is using more players nowadays...in 2009/10 it looks like most teams used 23-26 players, but last year it was up to 25-28 players. However, I don't know how complete that data is.
IMO a coach would rather have too many players than too few. Most extras form an informal taxi squad who are almost of redshirt status. They will only play when somebody is injured or in a non-conference game. I would think a roster of 25-26 would be ideal.

Also, last year some Regina players left school. What happens then? You obviously cannot keep a guy on the roster who is not even a student.

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09-10-2012, 01:36 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
Huh?
LOL my bad, I guess I kind of threw that out there in the middle of something.

I just watched a CIS training camp where head coach didnt have a sign in for all players attending camp. He ran the entire training camp with no sign in for players, and no jerseys and numbers tied to any player.

So I would assume the training camp and tryouts were all in vein as the team was obviously picked.

I was wondering if this was standard or customary practice for CIS teams/coaches or just this one particular team.

Wow....I am rendered speechless...lol

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09-10-2012, 02:13 PM
  #371
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As has been discussed before on this board, all CIS sports (not just hockey) are required to have open tryouts. Few "walk-ons" make the cut as most (all?) CIS coaches have personally recruited their rookies, so the open tryouts might reveal someone you overlooked or underestimated, but they're not banking on finding a varsity athlete in the open tryouts. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, as some "bench" players do reveal themselves out of open tryouts.

I don't know about sign-in sheets, but watched a pre-season practice one time and everyone just had on pennys. Since you knew who the current players were, and you could find out how the invited recruits were (and of course the coaches know them) then the interest is just if any of the nameless ones looks good, and then who they are.

Bottom line, if you've got the talent, you'll get noticed and get on a varsity roster. Completely in vain? No. Long shot? Yes.


Last edited by FreddtFoyle: 09-10-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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09-10-2012, 03:12 PM
  #372
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There all also what I call quasi-walkons. As I understand it, Stefan Salituro was invited to try-out with UNB last year, but he wasn't "guaranteed" a spot like the bigger name recruits. He had to prove himself in try-outs and in the exhibition season in order to get a roster spot. Not that the bigger names are "guaranteed" either. It is only common sense that if a recruit shows up with a bad attitude, or is badly out of shape, or doesn't want to commit to the work level that is expected of them, or doesn't buy into the team culture, that he or she won't last either.

In other words, I don't think any recruit is really "guaranteed" a spot on the roster, but they are much, much more likely to make the team than a walk-on. So back to your original point, yes, the coach has his team picked before the try-outs.

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09-10-2012, 03:50 PM
  #373
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F Brad Cuzner has joined St. FX after being cut by the Mooseheads...

http://hockeyscene.com/hockeyscene/l...id=2&nid=12646

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09-10-2012, 08:52 PM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Evil View Post
Just saw that Andy Bathgate showed up at Guelph Camp.
http://gryphons.ca/news/2012/9/10/FB_0910125116.aspx

Brett Appio
Andy Bathgate
Daniel Broussard
Mike Hasson
Nick Huard
Jordan Mock
Nick Quinn
Mike Schwindt
Nick Trecapelli

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09-11-2012, 02:52 AM
  #375
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According to Willy Palov's Twitter Robert Slaney will begin playing for St. FX next season...I believe he has two years of eligibility left. I am pretty sure UNB tried recruiting him after he finished junior...before he went pro.

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