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What does the lockout mean for Winnipeg?

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10-20-2004, 01:40 PM
  #1
Kravitch
 
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What does the lockout mean for Winnipeg?

According to www.jetsowner.com, a lockout is what Winnipeg fans should need in order to favor the NHL returning to the city. I'm not an expert in this but what are the chances of the lockout helping Winnipeg in their attempt to return?

A fan from Winnipeg asked Bettman on CBC Newsworld about a month ago when he was talking about the lockout regarding the league and how they should return to Winnipeg. In the same breath Bettman said that the league has no intention of putting teams in Houston and Kansas City, and he said that when the time is right the league may consider a move to Winnipeg.

My question is, how will the lockout impact this?

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10-20-2004, 01:45 PM
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Hopefully not at all. Winnipeg was only over league average in attendance twice in it's existance, and aside from the couple games right when the team was leaving didn't give any indication that they wanted an NHL team.

There are a handful of cities that I would rather see a team in before Winnipeg. Just because I am Canadian is no reason to support having a team in Winnipeg any more than say Regina.

It was, and is a bad idea.

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10-20-2004, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
According to www.jetsowner.com, a lockout is what Winnipeg fans should need in order to favor the NHL returning to the city. I'm not an expert in this but what are the chances of the lockout helping Winnipeg in their attempt to return?

A fan from Winnipeg asked Bettman on CBC Newsworld about a month ago when he was talking about the lockout regarding the league and how they should return to Winnipeg. In the same breath Bettman said that the league has no intention of putting teams in Houston and Kansas City, and he said that when the time is right the league may consider a move to Winnipeg.

My question is, how will the lockout impact this?
Considering in an interview given in late 2003, bettman was quoted as saying "we have no intention ever of returning to Winnipeg" strikes me as a very positive development. maybe he has seen the light.

Lets go back to 1979, shall we? The NHL was bleeding red. Attendance for NHL games was at an all-time low, and for the first time since 1941, an NHL team had folded (Cleveland Barons). Then the WHA merged into the NHL, and brought 4 small market teams (Winnipeg, Edmonton, hartford, Quebec) into the league, which was considered impossible 5 years earlier.

Immediately, the NHL started to prosper. Attendance rose for 11 straight seasons, ESPN signed a cable deal with the NHL, a dynasty was born as the Oilers won 5 Stanley Cups in a span of 6 years, and the troubled franchises at the time Colorado and Atlanta, were moved to New Jersey and Calgary. Not until 12 years later did a franchise relocate.

Let history repeat itself. Small market Canadian based teams saved the NHL in 1979. Perhaps they could do the same thing in 2005. Bring the NHL to Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hamilton!

PS....our arena is set for completion on November 15

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10-20-2004, 02:03 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
Hopefully not at all. Winnipeg was only over league average in attendance twice in it's existance, and aside from the couple games right when the team was leaving didn't give any indication that they wanted an NHL team.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. We had 5,000 obstructed-view seats in the upper decks (which were never intended to be there in the first place). The lower decks were consistantly sold out. 35 000 people came to a almost spontaneous "Save the Jets" rally in 1995. How many cities in ANY professional sport can claim the same?


The problem at the time was ownership. The community support was there. A owner with deep pockets that wanted to build a new arena was not. And the Asper's (rightfully so) did not want to get involved, as they predicted that the salaries would skyrocket until Winnipeg could not compete with other clubs.

Fast forward 10 years later. We have ownership groups and corporations that have clearly stated that if a salary cap is reached, and the NHL is able to control spending, they would definitely be willing to invest in a new team. In 1995, the population was stagnant, and the city was not growing. Since 2000, we have been growing as a city faster than any time in recent memory. In fact, in two years, there will be a sever shortage of land to develop housing simply because in the 90's they predicted Winnipeg's population would level off at 680,000. They were wrong. Winnipeg will have 705 000 people by the end of 2004.

You should do your homework before making such unfounded assumptions about a city you know nothing about. Winnipeg would selloout every game if the NHL came back. It worked in Minnesota the second time around, it will work again here.

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10-20-2004, 02:10 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
You should do your homework before making such unfounded assumptions about a city you know nothing about. Winnipeg would selloout every game if the NHL came back. It worked in Minnesota the second time around, it will work again here.
What kind of corporate support exists in Winnipeg? That's really the key; the ability to sell out 80-120 luxury boxes. That's what made Minnesota a viable NHL home the second time around. Selling out every game isn't enough anymore.

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10-20-2004, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. We had 5,000 obstructed-view seats in the upper decks (which were never intended to be there in the first place). The lower decks were consistantly sold out. 35 000 people came to a almost spontaneous "Save the Jets" rally in 1995. How many cities in ANY professional sport can claim the same?


The problem at the time was ownership. The community support was there. A owner with deep pockets that wanted to build a new arena was not. And the Asper's (rightfully so) did not want to get involved, as they predicted that the salaries would skyrocket until Winnipeg could not compete with other clubs.

Fast forward 10 years later. We have ownership groups and corporations that have clearly stated that if a salary cap is reached, and the NHL is able to control spending, they would definitely be willing to invest in a new team. In 1995, the population was stagnant, and the city was not growing. Since 2000, we have been growing as a city faster than any time in recent memory. In fact, in two years, there will be a sever shortage of land to develop housing simply because in the 90's they predicted Winnipeg's population would level off at 680,000. They were wrong. Winnipeg will have 705 000 people by the end of 2004.

You should do your homework before making such unfounded assumptions about a city you know nothing about. Winnipeg would selloout every game if the NHL came back. It worked in Minnesota the second time around, it will work again here.
Kenora born and raised. Lived in Winnipeg. As for you assinine comments about what you think you know, I have done lots of homework and debated this ad nausem about how Winnipeg is at least 5 or 6 on a list of cities that should get an NHL team. Quebec City comes to mind.

Sure you can get a 35 000 person rally together, and how many of those people were season ticket holders? Obviously not enough. The 5000 obstructed seat comment is a little exaggerated wouldn't you think?

As far as a team going there, if I was on the board of directors for the NHL, why would I add a team that would OBVIOUSLY need revenue sharing to survive, plus add to the Canadian Currency hand out AND there are cities out there that are more likely to be in the mid to top pack of revenues as opposed to adding a small market team which is what this lockout is about.

Wave your flags, do your cheers, put on your white t-shirts. It doesn't change the fact that even if a team were to want to move, Winnipeg is not the best destination.

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10-20-2004, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
According to www.jetsowner.com, a lockout is what Winnipeg fans should need in order to favor the NHL returning to the city. I'm not an expert in this but what are the chances of the lockout helping Winnipeg in their attempt to return?
The guy running jetsowner.com is borderline mentally disabled. A lockout will have no bearing on whether or not Winnipeg gets an NHL team. Either they are one of the 30 best NHL markets in North America or they are not. That is what will decide whether or not Winnipeg gets an NHL team.

I think there is little chance of them getting one because they need an NHL rink, which they aren't going to get because they just built a rink that was below NHL standards. As well, the metro population is lower then any other current NHL market and the average income is much lower then Ottawa, Calgary or Edmonton.

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10-20-2004, 05:37 PM
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If I remember, the new arena in Winni was going to hold about 13,000 people. Is that correct? I thought it was built more in mind for the Moose games.

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10-20-2004, 05:42 PM
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i heard 15 k -

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10-20-2004, 05:49 PM
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[QUOTE=George Bachul]Kenora born and raised. Lived in Winnipeg. As for you assinine comments about what you think you know, I have done lots of homework and debated this ad nausem about how Winnipeg is at least 5 or 6 on a list of cities that should get an NHL team. Quebec City comes to mind.

Sure you can get a 35 000 person rally together, and how many of those people were season ticket holders? Obviously not enough. The 5000 obstructed seat comment is a little exaggerated wouldn't you think?

As far as a team going there, if I was on the board of directors for the NHL, why would I add a team that would OBVIOUSLY need revenue sharing to survive, plus add to the Canadian Currency hand out AND there are cities out there that are more likely to be in the mid to top pack of revenues as opposed to adding a small market team which is what this lockout is about.
QUOTE]

Ouch! :bonk:

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10-20-2004, 05:58 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner
If I remember, the new arena in Winni was going to hold about 13,000 people. Is that correct? I thought it was built more in mind for the Moose games.
It's actually 15,000 seats. Remeber though, you don't build a 15,000 seat arena for the AHL. Hmmmm.....

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10-20-2004, 06:00 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
It's actually 15,000 seats. Remeber though, you don't build a 15,000 seat arena for the AHL. Hmmmm.....

It's also a multi-purpose facility. You need that kind of capacity for those Guess Who concerts and such.

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10-20-2004, 06:04 PM
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Including luxury boxes, the MTS Centre will hold 15 & change....

http://www.truenorthproject.mb.ca/arena/index.php

I'm not sure why people think NHL is coming back. The players hated coming here on road trips. No matter how good hte team was, they weren't a draw on the road either. Nor were they much for visitors TV ratings.

If the league is wanting to cap salaries at US 31 mill (which is a very low number & likely won't be the final answer) and hope this represents (I'm guessing) under 60% of a teams revenues, a CDN team would need to generate approx. 65 million per year CDN in revenues. Winnipeg just does not have the corporate and individual makeup to do that even with 15,000 full view seats.

Admittantly, the last arena was a joke for 16000 people. Sitelines were terrible & obstructed and many seats were just uncomfortable to watch a game from for upwards of 3 hours.... But people can't blame that. We had at least two chances to build a new one ... back in the early 80's when a facility near the convention center was being explored & then again when Izzy Asper was looking into buying the team. Neither time was there corporate support to pull the project together & now that we're in the new millenium, without Izzy Asper, it's even more of a long-shot to pull something together.

People will not be willing to underwrite the losses ... that was evident while they were here & the city was absorbing the losses. If Katz/Doer were to allow a casino in the arena and give any owners the bulk of the revenues generated from it as Asper had requested, then maybe we got a shot, but not if the owners need to rely on revenues generated primarilly from the team itself......

Betman was just saying what the CDN fans wanted to hear ... he was the happiest person on the planet when he moved hockey out of Quebec & WPG and into the big US markets. If it weren't for the dynasty in Edmonton, I doubt there'd be 2 teams in Alberta either right now.....

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10-20-2004, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Lets go back to 1979, shall we? The NHL was bleeding red. Attendance for NHL games was at an all-time low, and for the first time since 1941, an NHL team had folded (Cleveland Barons). Then the WHA merged into the NHL, and brought 4 small market teams (Winnipeg, Edmonton, hartford, Quebec) into the league, which was considered impossible 5 years earlier.

Immediately, the NHL started to prosper. Attendance rose for 11 straight seasons, ESPN signed a cable deal with the NHL, a dynasty was born as the Oilers won 5 Stanley Cups in a span of 6 years, and the troubled franchises at the time Colorado and Atlanta, were moved to New Jersey and Calgary. Not until 12 years later did a franchise relocate.
Attendence started to rise when Wayne Gretzky joined the league. Amazing.

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10-21-2004, 12:12 AM
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Laugh at Winnipeg's dream all you want. Major league hockey was never supposed to come to our city, but we supported it for 24 years. Dreams come true and the Red Sox proved that tonight. Winnipeg will once again have a NHL team.


Last edited by Jets4Life: 10-24-2004 at 08:00 PM.
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10-21-2004, 12:22 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
Hopefully not at all. Winnipeg was only over league average in attendance twice in it's existance, and aside from the couple games right when the team was leaving didn't give any indication that they wanted an NHL team.

There are a handful of cities that I would rather see a team in before Winnipeg. Just because I am Canadian is no reason to support having a team in Winnipeg any more than say Regina.

It was, and is a bad idea.
You see the arena we had was the biggest dive in all sports, explaining the low attendance, you couldn't even SEE the ice from a whole lot of seats. That old arena was built in 1958 or something. On top of that, the Jets were always destroyed by the great Flames & Oilers teams of the 80's (same division) and destroyed by high salaries in the 90's.

With the new rink downtown (beautiful!!!) and a decent economic situation, the hungry fans will fill that rink. Believe it, cuz it's a fact.


Last edited by mazmin: 10-21-2004 at 12:31 AM.
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10-21-2004, 12:33 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazmin
a decent economic situation
What's that I hear in the distance? clickety-clack clickety-clack.... CHOOOH-WOOOOH!! ...clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack.... CHOOOO-WOOOOH-HOOOOOH!! ...... clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack .... DING DING DING!!! TOOT TOOT TOOT!!! .... clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack.... CHOOOO-HOOOOOH!! ...Heeeeeere comes the Reality Train.... Next stop: YOU!.

If there's a "decent economic situation" then why would a team move?

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10-21-2004, 12:34 AM
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A few months ago CBC guaranteed that the NHL wil return to Winnipeg. I wounder why they took such a big step but they do seem optomistic.

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10-21-2004, 12:41 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Kravitch
A few months ago CBC guaranteed that the NHL wil return to Winnipeg. I wounder why they took such a big step but they do seem optomistic.
Well, it's not their money, is it?

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10-21-2004, 12:42 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Well, it's not their money, is it?
Its their reputation.

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10-21-2004, 12:55 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
What's that I hear in the distance? clickety-clack clickety-clack.... CHOOOH-WOOOOH!! ...clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack.... CHOOOO-WOOOOH-HOOOOOH!! ...... clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack .... DING DING DING!!! TOOT TOOT TOOT!!! .... clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack clickety-clack.... CHOOOO-HOOOOOH!! ...Heeeeeere comes the Reality Train.... Next stop: YOU!.

If there's a "decent economic situation" then why would a team move?
Because that was 1995. It's 2004, you wonderful person!


Last edited by Jets4Life: 10-21-2004 at 03:37 AM.
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10-21-2004, 12:55 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
According to www.jetsowner.com, a lockout is what Winnipeg fans should need in order to favor the NHL returning to the city.
There's a shocker.

Quote:
With the new rink downtown (beautiful!!!) and a decent economic situation, the hungry fans will fill that rink.
Even if they did fill it every night, they would still be in the bottom half of the league in attendance figures.


Last edited by Jacob: 10-21-2004 at 12:59 AM.
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10-21-2004, 12:59 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Kravitch
Its their reputation.
Oooooh.... nope, that one's too easy....

You know, it's really quite smashing all this Jets Redux talk. Rah-rah and "Never Say Die" and all. Quite quaint, actually. It's like a five-year old, chest puffed, reciting from memory his wish list to a Mall Santa.

Well, here's a nice little pat on the head. We get it. You loved your Jets. Here's a cookie.

:lol

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10-21-2004, 01:29 AM
  #24
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OK......you have made your point. Now go away, and never come back!


Last edited by Jets4Life: 10-21-2004 at 03:38 AM.
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10-21-2004, 01:55 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life
Because that was 1995. It's 2004, you freaking moron!
He wasn't talking about why the Jets left in 95, he was talking about why would another team need to relocate to Winnipeg if the league achieves the type of economic certainty you predicted would make a new Jets team successful.
Kind of makes you look silly for calling him a moron...

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