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What does the lockout mean for Winnipeg?

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Old
10-21-2004, 03:33 AM
  #26
coolguy21415
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While I don't necessarily support a move to Winnipeg, moving an eastern conference team west makes a lot of sense in terms of travel money and expenses. When teams like Chicago, Detroit, etc are in the Western Conference, it costs them TONS to play the majority of their away games, since they play inter-conference games in California, Texas, Minnesota etc. It's ridiculous actually.

I'm not arguing that the majority of the hockey market is along the eastern seabord, but moving a team west could be a reason for a team to move. If Carolina moved west, either Columbus or Detroit would then be in the Eastern conference, saving them (and western conference teams) money. I don't think this has a huge economic impact, since Winnipeg, is just about as far away from an NHL franchise as you can get, so it wouldn't make sense for a move to Winnipeg, but the thought remains.

My two cents, is all. I personally don't support a move to Winnipeg, since I just see it as a move from one mediocre situation to the next, not necessarily an improvement.

<edit>
To add something, that site www.jetsowner.com is absolutely ridiculous, it offers no more than one person's (unqualified) opinion and a list of places to email. And I'm not even sure what effect emailing TSN's Off The Record will have to getting Winnipeg a new franchise...


Last edited by coolguy21415: 10-21-2004 at 03:51 AM.
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10-21-2004, 08:06 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Even if they did fill it every night, they would still be in the bottom half of the league in attendance figures.

That a great point, the new building in Winnipeg only sits 15,500 fans or so fans. In todays NHL you need more ticket revenue than that to support a new, even if the owners get a hard cap in the 35 million dollar range.

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10-21-2004, 08:50 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
Bring the NHL to Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hamilton!
Although I would love to have teams in all three of those cities, it's not a reality...

Quebec would need a new rink (unless they've already built another one that I'm not aware of)... And they'd need some major corporate money to step up...

Hamilton to me is an accident waiting to happen... I'd love to see them get hockey for the rivalries it would create, but the territorial rights issues with both Toronto and Buffalo combined with the fact that it would be competing for fans with the Leafs and Sabres, I think it would have some serious issues.. Plus, the rink would need MAJOR renovations...

Winnipeg, great fans, and a new rink but the rink isn't NHL ready and with the Canadian dollar, they will need a great rink that can draw in tons of revenue in order to survive, and 15,500 seats isn't enough... I don't know Winnipeg's corporate structure myself, and I know that there is a lot of support in Winnipeg from both fans and companies to get a team back there, but I have doubts about there being enough corporate support for them to sell enough luxury boxes to survive over an extended period... I could be wrong, but those are my thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
PS....our arena is set for completion on November 15
And when will it be set for completion of the major renovations it would need to add between 3,000 to 4,000 more seats so it will be NHL ready?

Don't take this as me trashing you because nothing would make me happier than seeing a healthy franchise in Winnipeg, Quebec City and to a lesser extent, Hamilton... I just don't personally believe that the NHL would be healthy in those cities...

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10-21-2004, 09:41 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life


The problem at the time was ownership. The community support was there. A owner with deep pockets that wanted to build a new arena was not. And the Asper's (rightfully so) did not want to get involved, as they predicted that the salaries would skyrocket until Winnipeg could not compete with other clubs.
the problem at the time was NOT ownership it was the people of Winnipeg and the governments locally and provincially who sold the Jets out for the 1999 Pan Am games. The city chose hosting the games and spending money on building facilities for the Pan Am Games over an arena. Barry Shankerow did everything in his power to keep the team in Winnipeg and to say he didn't is a disservice to him.

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10-21-2004, 09:44 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kravitch
It's actually 15,000 seats. Remeber though, you don't build a 15,000 seat arena for the AHL. Hmmmm.....

15000 is not an NHL arena capacity anymore.

A lockout being good for Winnipeg's hopes is a reasonable thought. If the lockout were to be a lengthy one, The NHL could see a revolt in the less traditional markets, much like baseball saw and maybe teams start folding and relocating. Of course the NHL would have taken about 6 major step backwards and become no better than single A ball in most American eyes.

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10-21-2004, 09:49 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life

PS.....Kenora sucks.
This is the most ridiculous comment on this thread (and believe me you gave yourself some mighty competition!)

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10-21-2004, 10:02 AM
  #32
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I don't think the size of the arena is really an issue. It's the luxury boxes. When you expand an arena, where are you expanding?? The back! 3000 extra seats might bring in an extra couple of mill per year...... and think how much is it going to cost to put those extra rows in??

Filling up the 46 private suites and 2 party suites is going to be tough enough. I doubt there'll ever be a time when we call in engineers to review the possibilty of turing more of the arena into boxes...

Is there a site that shows what other arenas have in terms of private boxes, etc?? I would gues the bulk of them have at least double what MTS Centre has constructed.....

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10-21-2004, 10:03 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
This is the most ridiculous comment on this thread (and believe me you gave yourself some mighty competition!)
i agree... extremely immature...

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10-21-2004, 10:08 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji Frank
I don't think the size of the arena is really an issue. It's the luxury boxes. When you expand an arena, where are you expanding?? The back! 3000 extra seats might bring in an extra couple of mill per year...... and think how much is it going to cost to put those extra rows in??
Taking a cheap seat ticket cost of $35 and multiplying that by 3,500 extra seats, and multiplying that by 41 home games, you are looking at just over $5,000,000 extra revenue per season... That is, of course assuming that the team sells out every game... $5 million in extra revenue is a big difference for a team...

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10-21-2004, 10:13 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji Frank
Is there a site that shows what other arenas have in terms of private boxes, etc?? I would gues the bulk of them have at least double what MTS Centre has constructed.....
I'm not aware of any such sites, but an interesting note... This summer I was in Toronto and took a tour of the ACC (cute little blonde running the tour too... mmm)... Anyways, one of the things that we did during the tour was go into the luxury box owned by Tie Domi... We were informed while in there, that the price of that box for Domi is $450,000 per year (if memory serves me correctly)... and that you have to signe either a 4 or 8 year lease on it... that's a lot of extra cash for a team... now I know they would be more expensive in Toronto than Winnipeg because of supply and demand, but either way, it's obvious that yes, selling out your luxury boxes is a HUGE advantage, and if your rink doesn't have many, you are digging yourself a hole right from the start...

Btw, we were also told that Mats Sundin was the only other current Leaf to own a luxury box in Toronto... Cujo used to, but sold his off when he signed in Detroit...

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10-21-2004, 10:51 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji Frank
I don't think the size of the arena is really an issue. It's the luxury boxes. When you expand an arena, where are you expanding?? The back! 3000 extra seats might bring in an extra couple of mill per year...... and think how much is it going to cost to put those extra rows in??

Filling up the 46 private suites and 2 party suites is going to be tough enough. I doubt there'll ever be a time when we call in engineers to review the possibilty of turing more of the arena into boxes...

Is there a site that shows what other arenas have in terms of private boxes, etc?? I would gues the bulk of them have at least double what MTS Centre has constructed.....
Nashville has 95 suites. At the time we were granted a franchise, the suites had to have 75% capacity.

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Old
10-21-2004, 12:44 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
OK......you have made your point. Now go away, and never come back!
Are you talking about Bicycle Repairman or the Winnipeg Jets?

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10-21-2004, 12:47 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgallant
Taking a cheap seat ticket cost of $35 and multiplying that by 3,500 extra seats, and multiplying that by 41 home games, you are looking at just over $5,000,000 extra revenue per season... That is, of course assuming that the team sells out every game... $5 million in extra revenue is a big difference for a team...
Theres no question that the Jets would sell out every game for atleast the first few seasons.

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10-21-2004, 12:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Oooooh.... nope, that one's too easy....

You know, it's really quite smashing all this Jets Redux talk. Rah-rah and "Never Say Die" and all. Quite quaint, actually. It's like a five-year old, chest puffed, reciting from memory his wish list to a Mall Santa.

Well, here's a nice little pat on the head. We get it. You loved your Jets. Here's a cookie.

:lol
Did I say the Jets were my team?

Tool.


Last edited by Kravitch: 10-21-2004 at 12:52 PM.
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Old
10-21-2004, 12:51 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgallant
Although I would love to have teams in all three of those cities, it's not a reality...

Quebec would need a new rink (unless they've already built another one that I'm not aware of)... And they'd need some major corporate money to step up...

Hamilton to me is an accident waiting to happen... I'd love to see them get hockey for the rivalries it would create, but the territorial rights issues with both Toronto and Buffalo combined with the fact that it would be competing for fans with the Leafs and Sabres, I think it would have some serious issues.. Plus, the rink would need MAJOR renovations...

Winnipeg, great fans, and a new rink but the rink isn't NHL ready and with the Canadian dollar, they will need a great rink that can draw in tons of revenue in order to survive, and 15,500 seats isn't enough... I don't know Winnipeg's corporate structure myself, and I know that there is a lot of support in Winnipeg from both fans and companies to get a team back there, but I have doubts about there being enough corporate support for them to sell enough luxury boxes to survive over an extended period... I could be wrong, but those are my thoughts...


And when will it be set for completion of the major renovations it would need to add between 3,000 to 4,000 more seats so it will be NHL ready?

Don't take this as me trashing you because nothing would make me happier than seeing a healthy franchise in Winnipeg, Quebec City and to a lesser extent, Hamilton... I just don't personally believe that the NHL would be healthy in those cities...
If you were to put Hamilton in there, you would have Toronto, Buffalo, Hamilton, Ottawa and Montreal all within a very small distance. It would get messy.

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Old
10-21-2004, 01:35 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
the problem at the time was NOT ownership it was the people of Winnipeg and the governments locally and provincially who sold the Jets out for the 1999 Pan Am games. The city chose hosting the games and spending money on building facilities for the Pan Am Games over an arena. Barry Shankerow did everything in his power to keep the team in Winnipeg and to say he didn't is a disservice to him.

What on earth are you talking about?? The Pan AM Games had nothing to do with building a new arena. When did I say anything about Barry Shankerow? Finally, how is it the people of Winnipeg's fault? Please elaborate!

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10-21-2004, 01:39 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
Finally, how is it the people of Winnipeg's fault? Please elaborate!
They didn't support the team.

Same reason it was the fans fault in Edmonton for them almost losing their team.

Yeah, the ownership in Edmonton was terrible, Pocklington sold is dynasty because he made bad business decisions elsewhere, and that really cheesed off the fan base.

Had the team left in 1994, or 1995 (when the team was averaging 10,000 fans per game), the fans were the ones who chose not to come.

If you won't go to the rink, why should you complain when the team gets taken away? If you won't go to the rink, it's your fault, as a fan, that your team is leaving.

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10-21-2004, 01:47 PM
  #43
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A league that produces the type of revenue that both the owners and the PA want wouldn't include Winnipeg. The type of league that I'd like would have Winnipeg,Quebec, and ya maybe Hamilton. I won't argue finance, I just prefer 'hockey' cities, where even fans who can't afford ticket prices, talk hockey and care about it.

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10-21-2004, 01:50 PM
  #44
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Theres some good discussion on this thread, good arguments made both pro and against the Jets returning. Unfortunately, and I'm not sure why this happens EVERYTIME the Jets are brought up, the thread's been torn apart by immaturity on both sides. Why do those against the idea feel such a strong need to belittle and mock the city and various attempts to again obtain a team. I'll grant you 100%, that website is pretty low-end. But look, the people from Winnipeg hoping for a return of the NHL aren't hoping to **** another city of their team. Rather, the people are simply exploring the feasibility of getting a team and being optimistic about it. Its a pretty sick indicator of some of the spirits of individuals on these boards that simple optimism combined with some analysis sparks such childish responses. Makes me pretty regretful that I supported BR, for one, in another thread.

Nothing wrong with being pessimistic (or realistic, depending on your view) on Winnipeg's chances. The odds are likely against it. However, why respond to hope like a complete ass?

Props to those able to debate either side civilly.

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10-21-2004, 03:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life
What on earth are you talking about?? The Pan AM Games had nothing to do with building a new arena. When did I say anything about Barry Shankerow? Finally, how is it the people of Winnipeg's fault? Please elaborate!

The Pan Am games had everything to do with building an arena. It was an either or proposition. The people of Winnipeg chose the games over the arena to save their NHL team (knowing it would have only been a matter of time before the team moved anyway)

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10-21-2004, 04:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by kenabnrmal
Theres some good discussion on this thread, good arguments made both pro and against the Jets returning. Unfortunately, and I'm not sure why this happens EVERYTIME the Jets are brought up, the thread's been torn apart by immaturity on both sides. Why do those against the idea feel such a strong need to belittle and mock the city and various attempts to again obtain a team. I'll grant you 100%, that website is pretty low-end. But look, the people from Winnipeg hoping for a return of the NHL aren't hoping to **** another city of their team. Rather, the people are simply exploring the feasibility of getting a team and being optimistic about it. Its a pretty sick indicator of some of the spirits of individuals on these boards that simple optimism combined with some analysis sparks such childish responses. Makes me pretty regretful that I supported BR, for one, in another thread.

Nothing wrong with being pessimistic (or realistic, depending on your view) on Winnipeg's chances. The odds are likely against it. However, why respond to hope like a complete ass?

Props to those able to debate either side civilly.
Finally a grown up response to the topic, Will the Jets return to Winnipeg, I would say no. If they do, I will be the first in line for season tickets. People in Winnipeg are passionate about hockey and do have dreams about NHL hockey returning to our city, I don't think it will happen, but don't piss on people that want to believe that it will.

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10-21-2004, 04:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16
Finally a grown up response to the topic, Will the Jets return to Winnipeg, I would say no. If they do, I will be the first in line for season tickets. People in Winnipeg are passionate about hockey and do have dreams about NHL hockey returning to our city, I don't think it will happen, but don't piss on people that want to believe that it will.
Poppycock! I shall continue to gleefully mock and debunk in tones traditionally reserved for Flat Earthers and Great Pumpkin fans all incongruous nonsense touting the improbable reincarnation of the NHL Winnipeg Jets.

Winnipeg has a perfectly suitable professional hockey team for their market in the AHL Manitoba Moose. Salt of the Earth, those boys are. A plucky, lunchbucket crew befitting their station. Complimentary winter equivalents to the beloved Goldeyes and heartly-embraced Blue Bombers. Sure, they lack the glittering Big League cachet of your Doug Smails and Pokey Reddicks, but they should suffice in the town's new pride and joy ice facility which was specifically built for that purpose.


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10-22-2004, 12:33 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
The Pan Am games had everything to do with building an arena. It was an either or proposition. The people of Winnipeg chose the games over the arena to save their NHL team (knowing it would have only been a matter of time before the team moved anyway)
Hmmm....

I've lived in Winnipeg my entire life, and that's the first I've heard of the PanAM games having anything to do with building an arena. First of all, Winnipeg was greatful for getting the PanAm games, but that decision was made in 1992, not 1995.

Winnipeggers did not choose the PanAm games over the Jets. that is just nonsense. If you can provide a reliable source for your claim, maybe I will take your post a bit more serious.

Finally if the Pan Am Games had everything to do with building an arena, why did they wait 5 years after the games ended to finish it? It makes no sense.


Last edited by Jets4Life: 10-22-2004 at 12:37 AM.
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10-22-2004, 02:40 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life
Considering in an interview given in late 2003, bettman was quoted as saying "we have no intention ever of returning to Winnipeg" strikes me as a very positive development. maybe he has seen the light.

Lets go back to 1979, shall we? The NHL was bleeding red. Attendance for NHL games was at an all-time low, and for the first time since 1941, an NHL team had folded (Cleveland Barons). Then the WHA merged into the NHL, and brought 4 small market teams (Winnipeg, Edmonton, hartford, Quebec) into the league, which was considered impossible 5 years earlier.

Immediately, the NHL started to prosper. Attendance rose for 11 straight seasons, ESPN signed a cable deal with the NHL, a dynasty was born as the Oilers won 5 Stanley Cups in a span of 6 years, and the troubled franchises at the time Colorado and Atlanta, were moved to New Jersey and Calgary. Not until 12 years later did a franchise relocate.

Let history repeat itself. Small market Canadian based teams saved the NHL in 1979. Perhaps they could do the same thing in 2005. Bring the NHL to Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hamilton!

PS....our arena is set for completion on November 15
As a fan, I'm 1 million% for Winnipeg getting another NHL team. Quebec City as well. The passion of those fans is one of the very first reasons why I began to love hockey. You were as (or more) fanatical than any soccer fan for their respective team, and that is the ultimate compliment for any fan. Please keep the dream and/or the notion of it alive, that's what us fans do.

But in the realm of business today, it simply isn't feasible. No matter how much that I and countless others would like it to be, it just isn't. There are many reasons why, most of which have already been mentioned. Accepting the realities are the situation are extremely hard (I know first hand).

I moved to Georgia just as the Flames left, and had to wait 20 years before another franchise moved into the city. And down here, we only had a few minor league teams to fill the void (and that was only in the mid 90s). And your statment of a troubled Flames is correct, but only to an extent. The team was actually doing quite well in Atlanta; the support was there. Unfortunately the owner took a big hit when the real estate market bottomed out in the late 70s, he was forced to sell the team. A group from Calgary had been waiting for the opportunity and out-bid potential buyers in Atlanta.

Facts abound. It helps everyone if we know as many of those facts as possible. Keeps delusions at a minimum.

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10-22-2004, 10:36 AM
  #50
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You were as (or more) fanatical than any soccer fan for their respective team, and that is the ultimate compliment for any fan.
If anyone compares me to a soccer fan, I am probably going to hit them.

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