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What does the lockout mean for Winnipeg?

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Old
10-25-2004, 09:38 PM
  #76
Slats432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenabnrmal
Kenora has two faces, a summer face and a winter face. Winnipeggers, for the most part, know much about both faces. In the summer, as you say, its a wonderful, pretty small town. In the winter...

Most Winnipeggers have more experience and connection with Kenora than just driving through.

To get on-topic, I don't see Kenora scoring an NHL franchise anytime soon...
As my hometown, I remember it fondly, but it is the smallest centre to ever lay claim to the Stanley Cup.

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10-26-2004, 01:31 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3096572

Good article about NHL attendance. If Winnipeg drew 15, 500 per game the wouldn't be far under most teams, hell they'd be higher than most teams.

To say it's not feasible is ridiculous. They could easily come up with a way to close the revenue gap and make up for the 1-2,000 less seats they have. The economic situation in Winnipeg is continually improving especailly with a business man as mayor.

The idea of Winnipeg getting a team, especially if Canada's dollar can stay above 75 cents US is viable to say the least...
If. If. If only. If only this. If only that. If. If.

The world doesn't exist in a clinically-controlled Petri Dish, my friend.

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10-26-2004, 02:46 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
Hopefully not at all. Winnipeg was only over league average in attendance twice in it's existance, and aside from the couple games right when the team was leaving didn't give any indication that they wanted an NHL team.

There are a handful of cities that I would rather see a team in before Winnipeg. Just because I am Canadian is no reason to support having a team in Winnipeg any more than say Regina.

It was, and is a bad idea.

Carolina..cough cough...

I've seen more people inside a burger king joint than at a Hurricanes game. That is one team that should move, no support from fans whatsoever, just that one season when they made the finals. Of course fans come out then, their team is in the finals. But after that ended, back to barely any people at the games.

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Old
10-26-2004, 05:44 AM
  #79
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Should a Pittsburgh fan really be laughing at someone else's attendance?

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10-26-2004, 09:40 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
If. If. If only. If only this. If only that. If. If.

The world doesn't exist in a clinically-controlled Petri Dish, my friend.
Well, until something is actually made a reality, all you can discuss are "ifs". You try to sound clever, but your post is of little relevance.

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10-26-2004, 10:00 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I.am.ca
Carolina..cough cough...

I've seen more people inside a burger king joint than at a Hurricanes game. That is one team that should move, no support from fans whatsoever, just that one season when they made the finals. Of course fans come out then, their team is in the finals. But after that ended, back to barely any people at the games.
Nobody is saying Carolina isn't a bad idea. In fact, I will come right out and say there are about 6 cities already in the league that are bad ideas that I would rather see fail miserably and be put out of business rather than move elsewhere.

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Old
10-26-2004, 10:43 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
Nobody is saying Carolina isn't a bad idea. In fact, I will come right out and say there are about 6 cities already in the league that are bad ideas that I would rather see fail miserably and be put out of business rather than move elsewhere.
I say having an NHL team in Raleigh isn't a bad idea. This is an affluent, well-educated market with more corporate support than 90% of NHL cities. The problem here isn't the market. The team is awful and just like anywhere (including but not limited to Chicago, Pittsburgh and not too long ago Ottawa) no one is going to pay the outrageous NHL ticket prices to watch a team lose every night. If your definition of hockey market is a city that will pay $80 a game watch a team loose, then the NHL would only have about five teams. You say you want teams to fail and go under, you are truly a great hockey fan.

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10-26-2004, 12:07 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji Frank
Including luxury boxes, the MTS Centre will hold 15 & change....

http://www.truenorthproject.mb.ca/arena/index.php
Unless it's expandable, particularly the number of luxury suites, this isn't an NHL facility. This reminds me of the late 80's when major league baseball was dangled as a carrot to get Pilot Field built in Buffalo. It's a superb minor league stadium, but I think those involved in getting it built knew all along that MLB wasn't a serious possibility.

FIXED SEATS

* Club Seats 936 seats
* Lower Bowl 8812 seats
(includes private suites, party suites and club seats)
* Upper Bowl 6203 seats
* Private Suites 1032 in 46 suites
* Party Suites 88 seats in 2 suites


SEATING CONFIGURATIONS

* Centre-Stage Concerts 16,345
* End-Stage Concerts 16,170
* Hockey/Curling 15,015
* Rodeo/Motocross 13,198
* Concert Bowl 2,200 to 8,097

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Old
10-26-2004, 05:08 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
Should a Pittsburgh fan really be laughing at someone else's attendance?

Who was laughing?

If your a 'Canes fan, great. But don't ignore the fact that hockey has never drawn any attention there other than that one playoff finals stint.

As for the pens fans...well if the CBA in 1994 was resolved properly, had the player salaries in control, the pens would still be a powerhouse with their superstars.

But hey, **** happens.


Last edited by Sotnos: 10-27-2004 at 05:57 AM. Reason: obscenity filter circumvention
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10-27-2004, 05:57 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I.am.ca
Who was laughing?
Oh excuse me, not laughing just making jokes at their expense.

Quote:
If your a 'Canes fan, great.
"Im" not a Carolina fan, don't know what would make you think that, just a supporter of keeping a team in a young, financially well-off market.

Anyway, Pittsburgh's attendance doesn't really give them the right to point fingers elsewhere, regardless of the "what if"s. That is all.


Last edited by Sotnos: 10-27-2004 at 07:12 AM.
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10-27-2004, 12:29 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. X
I say having an NHL team in Raleigh isn't a bad idea. This is an affluent, well-educated market with more corporate support than 90% of NHL cities.
That would explain the popularity of Nascar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. X
The problem here isn't the market. The team is awful and just like anywhere (including but not limited to Chicago, Pittsburgh and not too long ago Ottawa) no one is going to pay the outrageous NHL ticket prices to watch a team lose every night. If your definition of hockey market is a city that will pay $80 a game watch a team lose, then the NHL would only have about five teams.
I have a problem with a market that doesn't support its team when they are in the down periods. Of course, i am a Leafs fan and the building has been sold out through the good, bad and ugly. I guess every city can't have as great a fan as the Leafs do, but it isn't a hockey market if average attendance drops under 75-80% capacity. I will excuse Chicago, because they have proven to be a great market and they are doing what the people of Toronto should have done at some point in the Ballard era. Carolina has proven nothing, except that they have a lot of bandwagon jumpers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. X
You say you want teams to fail and go under, you are truly a great hockey fan.
Thank you.


Here is an idea that might work in Carolina: change the jersey to a more european style. Then get a bunch of bangers and crashers. With all the advertising on the jerseys and the players constantly banging and crashing into eachother, maybe they will realize hockey is like Nascar on ice.

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Old
10-27-2004, 07:48 PM
  #87
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Building a new arena could cause somebody to want to relocate to Winnipeg, but everyone has to remember, the NHL board of governers have the last say on things, and they will not move into a city that does not have a NHL ready rink. Look at Saskatoon in the early 80s (hell, they still built the arena and it can hold 17K if they wanted too) and Seattle in the mid 70s (they where granted an expansion franchise but it collapsed because they couldnt get the rink ready in time)

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Old
10-28-2004, 07:29 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
That would explain the popularity of Nascar.


I have a problem with a market that doesn't support its team when they are in the down periods. Of course, i am a Leafs fan and the building has been sold out through the good, bad and ugly. I guess every city can't have as great a fan as the Leafs do, but it isn't a hockey market if average attendance drops under 75-80% capacity. I will excuse Chicago, because they have proven to be a great market and they are doing what the people of Toronto should have done at some point in the Ballard era. Carolina has proven nothing, except that they have a lot of bandwagon jumpers.



Thank you.


Here is an idea that might work in Carolina: change the jersey to a more european style. Then get a bunch of bangers and crashers. With all the advertising on the jerseys and the players constantly banging and crashing into eachother, maybe they will realize hockey is like Nascar on ice.
OOOOH. NASCAR. Good one. Maybe you are right, we North Carolinians are too dumb to understand hockey. I am glad there are people like you on this board who are kind enough to point that out.

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10-29-2004, 04:49 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. X
OOOOH. NASCAR. Good one. Maybe you are right, we North Carolinians are too dumb to understand hockey. I am glad there are people like you on this board who are kind enough to point that out.
I would argue that people in any geographical area that didn't grow up around hockey don't get it. People who start watching hockey at an old age can't follow the play and the rules are quite complicated. I think the only way that hockey becomes popular in the States is when kids who grew up around hockey or playing it get old enough to pay to watch it. It'll take 20-30 years before a true fan base can be built up in areas such as the southern United States because people just aren't used to the game. If the NHL can't stick with crappy franchises in those areas for that long, I question whether the league will ever penatrate those markets or the countries national networks.

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10-29-2004, 06:10 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
I would argue that people in any geographical area that didn't grow up around hockey don't get it. People who start watching hockey at an old age can't follow the play and the rules are quite complicated.
What a joke! We are not talking about learning rocket science here, we're talking about a SPORT, sorry but it's not that complicated.

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10-29-2004, 06:11 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
To MacDaddy Version 1.3:

If you feel like debating me in a civil manner on a public forum, I will gladly make rebuttals to your posts. However, can you please stop sending me harassing messages in PM. I do not intend to respond to your messages in private. Any further posts made in PM will be forwarded to the appropriate personnel. Thank you.
If someone's sending you PMs you don't want to receive, put them on ignore. We don't get involved with what people are PMing each other (unless it's spam).

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10-29-2004, 06:24 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
What a joke! We are not talking about learning rocket science here, we're talking about a SPORT, sorry but it's not that complicated.
Okay, it might not be too hard to understand the basic rules of the sport, but not too many non-avid hockey fans notice when a player takes a hit to go over the red line before dumping it in, instead of just shooting it in from their own blue line. It's intricacies like this that help people who know the sport enjoy more then people who don't.

Baseball for example is hugely popular amoung people who used to play it, but generally considered boring by people who don't know the sport. Most people don't know (or care) about things like a full count with a runner on first is a lot better then a 2-2 count because the runner can leave early changing an outfield base hit into an RBI situation. People who didn't play or watch the sport as a kid don't know or care about these things.

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10-29-2004, 06:54 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
If someone's sending you PMs you don't want to receive, put them on ignore. We don't get involved with what people are PMing each other (unless it's spam).
Now why didn't I thnk of that in the first place...lol

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10-29-2004, 07:31 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
I would argue that people in any geographical area that didn't grow up around hockey don't get it.
I would argue that you are wrong.

I've worked with people that grew up in countries in Asia, Africa and the Middle East and when the NHL playoffs are on, they were watching it.

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10-29-2004, 07:34 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Okay, it might not be too hard to understand the basic rules of the sport, but not too many non-avid hockey fans notice when a player takes a hit to go over the red line before dumping it in, instead of just shooting it in from their own blue line. It's intricacies like this that help people who know the sport enjoy more then people who don't.

Baseball for example is hugely popular amoung people who used to play it, but generally considered boring by people who don't know the sport. Most people don't know (or care) about things like a full count with a runner on first is a lot better then a 2-2 count because the runner can leave early changing an outfield base hit into an RBI situation. People who didn't play or watch the sport as a kid don't know or care about these things.
Just because someone doesn't pick up on all the nuances of the game doesn't mean they can't enjoy it or even enjoy it less. This is just further promoting of this bizarre, elitist attitude some people have towards hockey.


Last edited by The Kitner Boy: 10-29-2004 at 09:10 AM. Reason: fixed typo
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10-29-2004, 07:49 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Okay, it might not be too hard to understand the basic rules of the sport, but not too many non-avid hockey fans notice when a player takes a hit to go over the red line before dumping it in, instead of just shooting it in from their own blue line. It's intricacies like this that help people who know the sport enjoy more then people who don't.
No offense meant here, but you're only digging this particular hole deeper.

I didn't grow up playing hockey, but I got hooked on the game and began to pick up the nuances as I watched. My girlfriend knew nothing about the game, and couldn't even follow the puck. I took her to a CBJ game, she became hooked, and now we have season tickets.

I was able to watch as she learned the game by watching. Now, she's able to point out "intricacies" to others.

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10-29-2004, 08:19 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacketracket
No offense meant here, but you're only digging this particular hole deeper.

I didn't grow up playing hockey, but I got hooked on the game and began to pick up the nuances as I watched. My girlfriend knew nothing about the game, and couldn't even follow the puck. I took her to a CBJ game, she became hooked, and now we have season tickets.

I was able to watch as she learned the game by watching. Now, she's able to point out "intricacies" to others.

I can't agree with you more. My business partner is fanatical about football, and talks about the nuances of the game non-stop. I can't stand to be in the car with him, as I have no understanding or interest in that particular game. The point, however, is that there is no football field within 3 hours of here. I think, however, it would be pretty ignorant for someone to diminish his love and understanding of that game. It's pretty elitist to assume that if someone didn't grow up in the middle of Montreal that they don't "get" hockey.

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10-29-2004, 08:36 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
I can't agree with you more. My business partner is fanatical about football, and talks about the nuances of the game non-stop. I can't stand to be in the car with him, as I have no understanding or interest in that particular game. The point, however, is that there is no football field within 3 hours of here. I think, however, it would be pretty ignorant for someone to diminish his love and understanding of that game. It's pretty elitist to assume that if someone didn't grow up in the middle of Montreal that they don't "get" hockey.
Alright, sorry but clearly what I was trying to say and what I said were two different things. 1) I didn't mean to say that people who haven't played hockey don't get it. 2) I'm not trying to take a shot at fans who didn't play as unknowledgeable. I think (not sure anymore) the point I was trying to make is that without a natural mean to get exposed to the sport, i.e. a friend who likes the sport exposing you to it, or television analysts explaining the game; it is difficult for people to start to enjoy it. Part of this process of having a good fan base is programs for kids to play the sport who get other people interested (friends, parents so on). So because there is very little exposure of the sport in many areas, and few ways for people to learn about the sport the NHL has a hard time attracting a solid fan base. I'm not trying to diminish one persons ability to learn about or enjoy the sport, I was making more of a macro level statement about a communities level of commitement to the sport.

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10-29-2004, 09:59 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
I would argue that people in any geographical area that didn't grow up around hockey don't get it. People who start watching hockey at an old age can't follow the play and the rules are quite complicated. I think the only way that hockey becomes popular in the States is when kids who grew up around hockey or playing it get old enough to pay to watch it. It'll take 20-30 years before a true fan base can be built up in areas such as the southern United States because people just aren't used to the game. If the NHL can't stick with crappy franchises in those areas for that long, I question whether the league will ever penatrate those markets or the countries national networks.

this is a very naive statement....I invite anyone with this "if you haven't grown up with hockey, you don't get it" mentality to drop over to the "Game Within the Game" thread on the Predators section.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=110364

Start from the beginning. The guy leading the discussion [Pred303] is 50 years old and has never skated in his life. I would wager that he knows more about the mechanics of the game on the ice than 75% of the people on this board.
C'mon over....join in the discussion....we would love to have your input.

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10-29-2004, 10:42 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
To MacDaddy Version 1.3:

You sure spend a lot of time Winnipeg-bashing. I guess Winnipeg was just too tough of a town for you to crack. Good luck in Toronto(?). You'll need it!
Winnipeg wasn't too tough for me. Just to crime filled, poor and dirty for my tastes. I'm not in Toronto, but will say that it is a beautiful city and felt completely comfortable there.


BTW, the private message that Jets4Life was whining about was an article from the Winnipeg sun about Winnipeg's 30th homicide of the year, and 5th in 7 days. Sounds like a lovely place to live. Might as well just build a big jail cell around the perimeter of the city.

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