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Is Mikhail Grabovski a number 1 center?

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Old
02-02-2012, 10:11 PM
  #76
Preisst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
He played with Kessel before. Didnt work out.

The other thing is he sparks Kulie and Mac. Not sure any of our other Cs can do that to the level he does.
First I want to say that I like Grabo on the KGM line and would prefer he plays with those guys. But I do need to point out that when Grabo and Kessel were put on a line together last year I think the reason they didn't work well together was cuz it was before Kessels revelation that he needed to play two way hockey. He was still a one-dimensional floater when they played together. Who knows maybe now that Kessel has rounded out his game they might click together.


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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
Thanks zeke. The numbers don't line he is a middle of the pack 1st line Center and one of the better 2nd line centers in the league. I cringe when I here the argument from guys who don't think he is a top team second line center ,that if he was on a good team he wouldn't get the opportunities he does with the Leafs. How does that make sense? Most of these so called "REAL" second lines centers are getting the same opportunities surrounded by "Better Players" yet they can't even put up the stats a Grabovski can. Why would you put him on the 3rd line when he can out produce your second line center? Idiotic.
I'd like to add that we usually put Grabovski out against the other teams #1 line. This has two fold reasoning ; 1) Grabo plays great defence 2) it forces the other teams #1 line to be responsible defensively cuz if they don't the puck will end up in their net.



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Originally Posted by Space Cowboy44 View Post
Yes. Unlike Bozak, Grabo will take a hit, get up, and play harder for it. He outworks Bozak and has more skills and smarts. Bozak could never make a play like he did when he set up Mac for that GWG against the Isles.

I really reaally reaaaaally want to see him center Kessel and see what happens.
Not so sure I would agree with this.

Sure Grabo is clearly better than Bozak at this time but Bozak has some pretty good skill too.

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02-02-2012, 10:12 PM
  #77
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He's a #1 imo. He fits better on our 2nd line, and on top 10 teams, hes a number 2 guy. But I think a consistent 30 goal centre who plays def is a 1st line

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02-02-2012, 10:21 PM
  #78
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Put me in the 1B camp. Obviously you would like to have the 6'2+ horse as your true #1 cough*Getzlaf*cough

But Grabo over the last month or so has been fantastic. But it's his defensive play that's really surprised me, Especially in the last two games against Pitt.

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02-02-2012, 11:56 PM
  #79
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Nah..


We have
Grabbo (Great # 2...Incredible #3)
Bozak (Solid #2....Ideally #3)
Connolly (Good #2... Above Average#3)
Steckel (Can win faceoffs...Great #4)

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02-03-2012, 12:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TYayo View Post
Nah..


We have
Grabbo (Great # 2...Incredible #3)
Bozak (Solid #2....Ideally #3)
Connolly (Good #2... Above Average#3)
Steckel (Can win faceoffs...Great #4)
I think you are underselling Connolly and overselling Bozak.

Connolly is putting up similar points to Bozak with poorer teammates (umm Crabb and Lombardi).

Put Connolly with Kessel and Lupul - that would be nasty and his points/game would resemble his career average

Connolly works better on a different line to balance scoring (and Bozak is good enough with Kessel on the first).
Bozak could not carry the third as well as Connolly (and frankly Kessel/Lulpul probably carry bozak on the first).
And Connolly won't be used to break up MKG on the second so he plays third line.


Last edited by number72: 02-03-2012 at 12:16 AM.
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02-03-2012, 12:06 AM
  #81
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Tough question.

Grabo is a beast, excellent 2-way player. He often is the stick that stirs the drink on the Leafs as far as centres go, when he is "On" there are few better across the league. Yet he is not really that big, minute munching, 80-100 point centre one might see as a #1 centre. He is his own man and given a situation where it came down to one game, series final, what have you...he would be the guy I want out there more than a lot of "#1 centres" out there. Gotta keep him.

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02-03-2012, 12:14 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Preisst View Post
I'd like to add that we usually put Grabovski out against the other teams #1 line. This has two fold reasoning ; 1) Grabo plays great defence 2) it forces the other teams #1 line to be responsible defensively cuz if they don't the puck will end up in their net.
Not usually. Lately. Big difference.

Grabo's defensive game started picking up right around when his offensive game has. He didn't spend all that much time being matched up against top lines prior to the first Isles home and home game. Wilson even commented on it in one of his pre- or post-game interviews.

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02-03-2012, 04:06 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
I think you are underselling Connolly and overselling Bozak.

Connolly is putting up similar points to Bozak with poorer teammates (umm Crabb and Lombardi).

Put Connolly with Kessel and Lupul - that would be nasty and his points/game would resemble his career average

Connolly works better on a different line to balance scoring (and Bozak is good enough with Kessel on the first).
Bozak could not carry the third as well as Connolly (and frankly Kessel/Lulpul probably carry bozak on the first).
And Connolly won't be used to break up MKG on the second so he plays third line.
Bozak is also way faster, grittier (both needed for the Kessel line), and even while facing faceoff specialists a lot of the time, he's considerably better than Connolly on the draw. Connolly has great vision, and hands, but is soft as butter and slow as molasses.

As for Bozak not being able to carry our 3rd line, I bet playing against scrubs on a nightly basis would help his game, as well. When was the last time an opposing coach adjusted his defensive pairing or forwards when facing the Connolly line?

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02-03-2012, 07:33 AM
  #84
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Grabo is what he is, and that should be fine with everybody. He's a terrific #2C. The team is lucky to have him. If he is traded in a package for anything other than a #1C, the Leafs will rue the day they made that deal.

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02-03-2012, 08:37 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Bozak is also way faster, grittier (both needed for the Kessel line), and even while facing faceoff specialists a lot of the time, he's considerably better than Connolly on the draw. Connolly has great vision, and hands, but is soft as butter and slow as molasses.

As for Bozak not being able to carry our 3rd line, I bet playing against scrubs on a nightly basis would help his game, as well. When was the last time an opposing coach adjusted his defensive pairing or forwards when facing the Connolly line?
Yep and I suppose Connolly is really suppressing Joey Crabb's career high season.

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02-03-2012, 08:38 AM
  #86
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He surely is playing like a number 1 centre but we don't really know if he is a true number 1 centre because he hasn't had a substantial amount of time between Lupul and Kessel. I know that people have been saying that it's been tried before and him and Kessel had no chemistry blah blah blah but I think if Grabo was given time to mesh with Kessel and Lupul that our first line would without question be the most dangerous in the league.

That being said Grabo is a true #1 centre. He just hasn't been given top line minutes because of someone named Kessel on that line who appears to only have chemistry with Lupul and to a minimum extent Bozak. This is likely holding Mikhail back IMO.

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02-03-2012, 08:41 AM
  #87
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Not on a good team

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02-03-2012, 08:49 AM
  #88
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He's a 1b. Does a lot of little things right and has more testicular fortitude then 99% of the guys in the NHL and he's half the size but he isn't going to be an 75-80 point center which to me is a requirement to be a true number one center.

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02-03-2012, 08:50 AM
  #89
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Second line center.

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02-03-2012, 08:52 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
He's a 1b. Does a lot of little things right and has more testicular fortitude then 99% of the guys in the NHL and he's half the size but he isn't going to be an 75-80 point center which to me is a requirement to be a true number one center.
You can't base it on Grabo's point production. Look at who he's playing with. If he was put between 2 more talented wingers than Mac and Kulie then I think his point production can reach that plateau.

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02-03-2012, 08:53 AM
  #91
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Wasn't he like 4th in scoring for January????

When he's hot he is likely an amazing #1 center but when he's off his game he isn't.

It's so hard to fit a player into a permenant role over a whole season because at times he is and at times he isn't.

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02-03-2012, 08:56 AM
  #92
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I would say he is a very good 2nd line center.

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02-03-2012, 08:58 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Grabowaffle84 View Post
You can't base it on Grabo's point production. Look at who he's playing with. If he was put between 2 more talented wingers than Mac and Kulie then I think his point production can reach that plateau.
That line was in the top 10 in scoring last season among all NHL lines IIRC. Kulemin and Mac can play but I think all 3 have pretty much topped out there point production. 60-65 point players.

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02-03-2012, 09:13 AM
  #94
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Grabovski is the only guy on the team who NEVER plays scared. Everyone else has their moments where they afraid of everything on the ice. Not this guy.


Even if the leafs get a #1 C by next year, i cringe at the possibility of not having Grabo there as the #2 because we have too much money tied up in contracts like Lombardi & Connolly.


I think you HAVE to re-sign Grabo, for around 5M, and literally just toss one of lombardi/Connolly in the minors since Finger is gone next year anyways i think its time to kill another contract down there. Lombardi seems like the best option

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02-03-2012, 09:23 AM
  #95
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Even with the production both lines have had, I'm still of the mind that KGM is our #1 and LBK is our #2. So, yes, he's a #1 Centre. He's just not the Centre that would fit best with Kessel and Lupul and make them into a #1 Line.

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02-03-2012, 09:49 AM
  #96
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I think he's definitely a good 2nd line centre. He would be a very good 3rd line centre on a contending team. IMO 1st line is a stretch for him.

Ideally though, I'd let Bozak or Connolly go before trading him. From the three, Grabo is easily the most talented.

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02-03-2012, 10:04 AM
  #97
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i guess in theory a #1 centre should be one of the top 30 centres in the league.

But I don't like that way of thinking. Anyone can be a #1 centre on the worst team in the league. The question is who can be a #1 centre on an above average team.

So I think a true #1 centre should be one of the top 15 centres in the league.

By that measure, Grabovski most certainly is not. The way he is playing right now, he could be a legit #2 centre on an elite team. No question.

But he has to show it for a full season. This is the second year in a row he's used the first half of the season as a warm up. Great players play the full season. He still has a lot to prove.

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02-03-2012, 10:08 AM
  #98
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Some people say he's a first, some say he's a third. It highly depends on what team he would actually be playing for. He's best considered a second line center. Leave it at that.

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02-03-2012, 10:10 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
Grabovski is the only guy on the team who NEVER plays scared. Everyone else has their moments where they afraid of everything on the ice. Not this guy.
That's pretty ironic coming from guy with a Patrick Marleau avatar, one of the softest players I have ever seen. Kind of like Russ Courtnall.

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02-03-2012, 10:13 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Leaf Army View Post
The way he is playing right now, he could be a legit #2 centre on an elite team. No question..
Oh If you're only talking about the way he is playing right now then he is a legit #1 on an elite team. Head to Head he by far outplayed Mailkin and Tavares in the last 2 series's. Not to mention he played them both while they were on hot streaks and made them look irrelevant. It's his lack of consistency that makes him a number 2.


Last edited by Ash35: 02-03-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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