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2011-12 Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part 6

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02-05-2012, 06:36 PM
  #301
Jedgi
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Originally Posted by um View Post
how can you talk about playoffs when you want to sell vokoun and wideman
Currently the Caps are contending for the playoffs.

You think this team minus Wideman and Vokoun, but plus Backstrom and Green is worse?

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02-05-2012, 06:51 PM
  #302
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If you bring in Backstrom and Green and expect them to carry the team right off the bat (which is what would happen without Wideman and Vokoun) they'll be out again in the blink of an eye.

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02-05-2012, 07:03 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Jedgi View Post
Currently the Caps are contending for the playoffs.

You think this team minus Wideman and Vokoun, but plus Backstrom and Green is worse?
should they make the playoffs do you honestly think a team green and wideman isnt better than a team with just green?

the idea is to make the playoffs and then try and win. take two or three top half of the lineup players out and you think that doesnt hurt their playoff success?

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02-05-2012, 07:04 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
if the team is a seller of wideman and vokoun and semin, they dont even make the playoffs much less compete well in them
Agreed. I'd even go so far as to say moving one of those three doesn't result in making the playoffs. Not unless there are upgrades elsewhere.

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02-05-2012, 07:05 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Jedgi View Post
Currently the Caps are contending for the playoffs.

You think this team minus Wideman and Vokoun, but plus Backstrom and Green is worse?
Yes it's worse... Minus Vokoun is minus a starting goalie. We wouldn't want that, would we? Green is easier to breake than glass, and Bäckström can't carry the whole team without support. Better to keep all four of them and see how long it takes us, no rush to sell anything right now. We won't be able to complete a full rebuild, considering Dale can't fail for Nail, it's to late for that... Therefore it's just better to play and see how long it can take us.

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02-05-2012, 07:12 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
assumptions like the above are well, ridiculous.....even more ridiculous is how your assumptions lead you to start patronizing people.

After 30 yrs of following this team, I want nothing more than to watch this team make the playoffs whether they're underdogs or favorites !

I was making a hypothetical comment on what to do if Laich is out long term along with Nicky, and I was hoping for some constructive replies be it negative or being in agreement.....but your sardonic condescending comments are ....neither.....but hey at least you're going against the grain as always so well done.
thats all fine, if thats how you take it. teams either are going for it and keeping what they have and/or add to it OR they are out and sell.

you suggest on one hand selling the caps minutes leader and their starting goaltender plus possibly their leading scorer over the past 20 games and then on the other hand talk about the playoffs. i dont see how that adds up.

even if it does add up, i dont see how a team in the playoffs doesnt need those three players in those playoffs a whole hell of a lot more than the futures.

again. lets go back to last season. with wideman out, the caps were strong til green was injured in game 1 which they lost in OT. had wideman been there they may well have won that game.

what about that doesnt make sense?

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02-05-2012, 07:15 PM
  #307
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@the OV trade talk

They won't even explore the possibility. Hypothetically, the return would have to be two significant pieces, ex: Eriksson+Benn, Perry+Ryan, etc.. Unless they wanted cap flexibility.

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02-05-2012, 07:18 PM
  #308
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Can you imagine how much better this team would be with Eriksson and Benn instead of Ovechkin?

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02-05-2012, 07:25 PM
  #309
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They'd probably be better with Parise at $2mi less.

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02-05-2012, 07:30 PM
  #310
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Wonder if Niewendyk would have done Benn and Fowler for Green at the 2010 draft. I was pulling for that so hard at the time.

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02-05-2012, 07:42 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
thats all fine, if thats how you take it. teams either are going for it and keeping what they have and/or add to it OR they are out and sell.

you suggest on one hand selling the caps minutes leader and their starting goaltender plus possibly their leading scorer over the past 20 games and then on the other hand talk about the playoffs. i dont see how that adds up.

even if it does add up, i dont see how a team in the playoffs doesnt need those three players in those playoffs a whole hell of a lot more than the futures.

again. lets go back to last season. with wideman out, the caps were strong til green was injured in game 1 which they lost in OT. had wideman been there they may well have won that game.

what about that doesnt make sense?
It makes sense if they remain idle and let the cards fall and hope their top 2 centers come back for the playoffs.....but if McPhee starts trying to replace Nicky and Laich by trading picks/prospects while they're sitting in 9th....then that's what scares me.
Does that make any sense to you?

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02-05-2012, 08:44 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
It makes sense if they remain idle and let the cards fall and hope their top 2 centers come back for the playoffs.....but if McPhee starts trying to replace Nicky and Laich by trading picks/prospects while they're sitting in 9th....then that's what scares me.
Does that make any sense to you?
sure. except what has mcphee ever traded that you wish he had back? teddy ruth? oskar osala? 2nd round picks?

mcphee has already had the chance to trade one of carlson or alzner and one of varly or neuvirth and a 1st round pick for chris pronger and passed. so, i dont worry about him trading kuznetsov for a rental.

so...if mcphee sends an on the fence prospect and a 2nd round pick for a rental center, i am not bugged by that. would you be? he might have to trade schultz for a future to clear the cap space. does that worry you?

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02-05-2012, 08:47 PM
  #313
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I would be against any trade that was based on making the team better this season. There are to many question makes with the lineup. We should go with what we have. No sense of making a move and trading something of real value. Only to have Nick or Green not play another game this season.

If we were going to bring in a 2C for the long haul. I would be all for it.

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02-05-2012, 08:48 PM
  #314
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Maybe zubrus trade... Totally ruined team mojo

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02-05-2012, 09:04 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Maybe zubrus trade... Totally ruined team mojo
Sounds like a joke. But who has been better since?

I think Mojo will be at some point. But with him being undersized it will take a little longer for him to get there.

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02-05-2012, 09:05 PM
  #316
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I would be against any trade that was based on making the team better this season. There are to many question makes with the lineup. We should go with what we have. No sense of making a move and trading something of real value. Only to have Nick or Green not play another game this season.

If we were going to bring in a 2C for the long haul. I would be all for it.
I agree with this. No sense to sell assets with so many games left and only a point or out. Go with what we have and wish for the best. This team can always sell the UFAs for picks at the draft if they want. Making fast, irrational trades makes us worse. This team needed defensemen for so long and took time to develop them, lets build around them. I'm not talking about Green, but Alzner, Carlson, and Orlov. The rest of the D can get out. Also, I have a hard time Ted would accept missing the playoffs, thus the fear for a stupid irrational move.

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02-05-2012, 09:11 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
sure. except what has mcphee ever traded that you wish he had back? teddy ruth? oskar osala? 2nd round picks?

mcphee has already had the chance to trade one of carlson or alzner and one of varly or neuvirth and a 1st round pick for chris pronger and passed. so, i dont worry about him trading kuznetsov for a rental.

so...if mcphee sends an on the fence prospect and a 2nd round pick for a rental center, i am not bugged by that. would you be? he might have to trade schultz for a future to clear the cap space. does that worry you?
A trade with Montreal comes to mind.

McPhee has been best at sell off trades, and marginal acquisitions, getting more than most expected in those deals. He's a low risk tinkerer who hasn't shown the ability to pull off a serious hockey trade where big assets are involved that improve the Caps. His rosters seem to lack chemistry, leadership, and overall hockey IQ. Just sayin...

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George McPhee....The Teflon GM. 15 years of failure and counting....

6 - Number of playoff series the Capitals have won since George McPhee took over as General Manager in 1997 (which makes him the third-longest-tenured GM in the League), three of which came in McPhee's first season on the job.
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02-05-2012, 09:24 PM
  #318
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Agree with people that pure rentals make no sense this season. Now long term 2C -- sure, why not.

I wish playoffs THIS year weren't even in the discussion. The chances of actually making noise in playoffs seem so low, and the upcoming decisions can affect the Caps for so many years, that even from a business perspective, I hope Leonsis can see that any sort of focus on making sure that he gets home games in playoffs this year is ill-advised.

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02-05-2012, 09:25 PM
  #319
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so you wish the caps had aednik and bulis back? i agree that wasnt a successful deal, but that was early on and has been the exception rather than the rule.

the big blockbuster player trades in the salary cap era are pretty rare arent they? that mcphee hasnt done them doesnt put him in a minority.

regardless, we are talking deadline deals. when has mcphee traded a future where that future turned out to be a big mistake?

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02-05-2012, 09:28 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Maybe zubrus trade... Totally ruined team mojo
yup, that was a mistake. but as i mentioned i was talking about futures. since the lockout he has traded mostly non first round picks and i dont recall any of the prospects having nhl careers as yet.

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02-05-2012, 09:36 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
A trade with Montreal comes to mind.

McPhee has been best at sell off trades, and marginal acquisitions, getting more than most expected in those deals. He's a low risk tinkerer who hasn't shown the ability to pull off a serious hockey trade where big assets are involved that improve the Caps. His rosters seem to lack chemistry, leadership, and overall hockey IQ. Just sayin...
GMGM is a great collector of talent. But does not know what it takes to win.

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02-05-2012, 09:48 PM
  #322
sunnydaycrash
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
sure. except what has mcphee ever traded that you wish he had back? teddy ruth? oskar osala? 2nd round picks?

mcphee has already had the chance to trade one of carlson or alzner and one of varly or neuvirth and a 1st round pick for chris pronger and passed. so, i dont worry about him trading kuznetsov for a rental.

so...if mcphee sends an on the fence prospect and a 2nd round pick for a rental center, i am not bugged by that. would you be? he might have to trade schultz for a future to clear the cap space. does that worry you?
Not at all....he's been real stingy with trading at the deadline but then again the Caps were never missing their top center,top defenseman and possibly their best 2 way forward nor was there ever a risk of his job being on the line.

I'm worried he may go into panic mode....that's been my point all along.

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02-05-2012, 09:50 PM
  #323
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Laich is going to be fine. Unfortunately...that injury could have made selling a little more likely.

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02-05-2012, 10:03 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
so you wish the caps had aednik and bulis back? i agree that wasnt a successful deal, but that was early on and has been the exception rather than the rule.

the big blockbuster player trades in the salary cap era are pretty rare arent they? that mcphee hasnt done them doesnt put him in a minority.

regardless, we are talking deadline deals. when has mcphee traded a future where that future turned out to be a big mistake?

McPhee has yet to make a deal with much risk. He's essentially traded junk for rentals. Were you expecting some uproar over some marginal prospects? McPhee is afraid to go for the brass ring.

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02-05-2012, 10:17 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
McPhee has yet to make a deal with much risk. He's essentially traded junk for rentals. Were you expecting some uproar over some marginal prospects? McPhee is afraid to go for the brass ring.
i was specifically responding to the comment that mcphee trading for a rental at the deadline was going to damage the future of the program. there is no evidence to support that.

as for mcphee being afraid. mcphee stands by several of his ideas of roster construction that go against the grain of convention. his resume shows no evidence of being a timid player. frankly, i'd love to see you accuse mcphee to his face that he is a coward.

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