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Jersey Woes : Habs lose to Devils 5-3, but there is a silver lining

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Old
02-02-2012, 10:42 PM
  #251
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
The effectiveness-or I should say complete ineffectiveness-of all of the other lines impact RC's decision making.
Bull freaking ****. Effectiveness is not solely measured in offensive production. And crap, the way RC handles DD's line is liable to actually hurt ITS offensive production because the minutes are tougher. Eller's line is ineffective because RC keeps throwing him into fire too deep for him to handle then yanks his chain back. Then he uses his best matchup forward and his second-best matchup forward together to... do not a whole lot.

And everyone's made extra ineffective because the 2.5 man forecheck is too aggressive and good transition exposes it and generates 3-on-2s. Montreal has burnt enough teams that tried it last year, too.

Martin built lines that made sense and used them effectively. RC, well, he's 6-11-2 and it's not just bad luck. His personnel management is abysmal.

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02-02-2012, 10:43 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Heinz 57 Gomez


Love that nickname but it can only last for one more day

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Old
02-02-2012, 10:44 PM
  #253
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There's any number of signs that point to the team being much better than its record and actually pretty good.
Just for the sake of agreement, I'll second that. Had the PP not been so abysmal all season, then this team would be in the thick of it for a playoff berth. The goals differential alone would suggest that, let alone the games lost to injury of key players.

Given that the PK is on pace for being one of the best of all time, it's hard to knock the coaching staff for the ineptitude of the PP. Special teams coaching deficiencies generally show up on both ends of the equation.

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02-02-2012, 10:44 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
If you're using DD's line as an example of this over the month of January, it's a very poor example. Tonight was the first time he'd been on the ice for two goals against all calendar year and if I'm not mistaken, he's only been on the ice for 5 or 6 goals against in all scenarios since the beginning of the calendar year. So, I think it's fair to say that DD's match ups have been very favorable under RC's reign.
It's more that just DDs matchups. It's just everything. I don't like the way he thinks the game and the times he puts out certain lines given the situation. Even his defensive pairing matchups. He has Eller face the opposing team's top lines, but he pairs him up with Weber and Kaberle or Diaz and Gill, then he given Cole's line soft minutes and pairs them up with Subban and Gorges...it just boggles my mind.

Like last game he puts Blunden Darche Engqvist on the ice in the defensive zone with Weber and Gill, which led to the game winning goal. I hate **** like that, it was completely stupid.

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02-02-2012, 10:44 PM
  #255
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Well if we are a playoff team like some of you are suggesting, and yet we draft a Yakupov/Grigorenko then what does that say about our chances next year?
The next GM will be in a pretty good position: high draft pick, real NHL lineup, virtually unlimited player budget, and expectations so low that he only has to wave his hand to get credited with an epic turnaround.

The problem will be finding a competent, structured, puck-possession oriented coach that speaks French. Unfortunately the most qualified guy would appear the one they just fired, and there's no visible replacement handy.

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02-02-2012, 10:47 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Given that the PK is on pace for being one of the best of all time, it's hard to knock the coaching staff for the ineptitude of the PP. Special teams coaching deficiencies generally show up on both ends of the equation.
Montreal's PP was very strong at generating chances early on, but just couldn't finish. This was both with Plekanec or Kaberle driving at the point.

That was another thing that went downhill under RC; Cammy wasn't wrong with his comments about lack of creativity and how shooting from the point and getting bodies in front couldn't be your entire plan, and they had a dump and chase entry scheme that was a complete failure for a long while. I can't say I hated how they did it tonight though -- carried the puck in against the league's second-best PK. They had trouble with containment, though, no one holding the boards to challenge a clear there.

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02-02-2012, 10:48 PM
  #257
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.........

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Old
02-02-2012, 10:48 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
HFB: Let's blame DD for Cole's turnover on the GWG.

Not sure why it always has to be DD's fault each time the line gets scored.
He should have anticipated it


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 02-02-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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02-02-2012, 10:49 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The next GM will be in a pretty good position: high draft pick, real NHL lineup, virtually unlimited player budget, and expectations so low that he only has to wave his hand to get credited with an epic turnaround.

The problem will be finding a competent, structured, puck-possession oriented coach that speaks French. Unfortunately the most qualified guy would appear the one they just fired, and there's no visible replacement handy.
Pretty much what I expect as well. As you said the metrics show that the habs aren't a bad team. The new GM could come in and literally not touch the lineup and it will most likely will improve from this year's team(assuming there is a competant coach) and of course he will get the credit and then it will be used as proof of Gauthier's "incompetency".

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02-02-2012, 10:49 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The next GM will be in a pretty good position: high draft pick, real NHL lineup, virtually unlimited player budget, and expectations so low that he only has to wave his hand to get credited with an epic turnaround.

The problem will be finding a competent, structured, puck-possession oriented coach that speaks French. Unfortunately the most qualified guy would appear the one they just fired, and there's no visible replacement handy.
I think its important to emphasize this. This team does not need a full out re-build. The defense can use some improvement, and that is a tricky situation right now with all the uncertainty surrounding the core, but this is not one of those teams that is going to sit at this futile position for the next few years.

Enjoy the high pick this year, but dont expect a full blow up by any means

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02-02-2012, 10:51 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The next GM will be in a pretty good position: high draft pick, real NHL lineup, virtually unlimited player budget, and expectations so low that he only has to wave his hand to get credited with an epic turnaround.

The problem will be finding a competent, structured, puck-possession oriented coach that speaks French. Unfortunately the most qualified guy would appear the one they just fired, and there's no visible replacement handy.
I'm glad Martin's gone. Darche may be upset but I'm not.

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02-02-2012, 10:52 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I think its important to emphasize this. This team does not need a full out re-build. The defense can use some improvement, and that is a tricky situation right now with all the uncertainty surrounding the core, but this is not one of those teams that is going to sit at this futile position for the next few years.

Enjoy the high pick this year, but dont expect a full blow up by any means
Depends on what your goals are.

Do we need to blow it up to make the playoffs? No.

To win a cup? We'd probably be better off blowing it up yes.

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02-02-2012, 10:53 PM
  #263
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Montreal's PP was very strong at generating chances early on, but just couldn't finish. This was both with Plekanec or Kaberle driving at the point.

That was another thing that went downhill under RC; Cammy wasn't wrong with his comments about lack of creativity and how shooting from the point and getting bodies in front couldn't be your entire plan, and they had a dump and chase entry scheme that was a complete failure for a long while. I can't say I hated how they did it tonight though -- carried the puck in against the league's second-best PK. They had trouble with containment, though, no one holding the boards to challenge a clear there.
I will say this, I don't know why RC continues to just throw out the DD line intact on the PP. The PP is an entirely different beast than ES and the line isn't clicking at all. Pacioretty appears to me to be a bit lost out there on the PP. I don't know why RC doesn't at least change that piece of the equation.

The fact that Gomez has seen one second of PP time and AK none (or almost none if he's seen any) since Gomez returned is a complete er to me.

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02-02-2012, 10:53 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I think its important to emphasize this. This team does not need a full out re-build. The defense can use some improvement, and that is a tricky situation right now with all the uncertainty surrounding the core, but this is not one of those teams that is going to sit at this futile position for the next few years.

Enjoy the high pick this year, but dont expect a full blow up by any means
Yup. This is pretty much the only reason I "defend" Gauthier because people exaggerate what has actually happened. I keep reading things like "he's handicapped this team" or "he's mortgaging the future", but this is pure exaggerations.

What he screwed up on was relying on too young a defense and it will get him fired. Aside from that, the team hasn't a very good core one which can easily be built around. There won't be any blowing up and there doesn't need to be. The next GM will benefit from a high pick and more flexibility in cap space as the habs aren't in cap hell despite what the fear mongerers would have you believe.

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02-02-2012, 10:58 PM
  #265
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Worst team in the league when scoring first, worst team in the league with a lead going into the 3rd. Habs 2011-12 edition is the definition of choke. It's amazing how lousy we are despite how many solid periods of work we've put in. I mean, haven't we only been outscored by 6 or 7 goals this year? We ALWAYS lose the shootout or 1 goal games. That better show Gauthier this is broke and needs some real fortitude. We're not far from being a playoff team if we can iron out a few kinks. That said, we're destined for a top 5 pick it seems. Uncanny ability to blow it.

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02-02-2012, 11:07 PM
  #266
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If you look at the playing time, you see why we lost.

How does AK...who was playing a solid game only get 12-13mins and Darche gets 18+, Gomez gets about 12?????


This is a big reason we keep losing leads....the players we have out there most of the time are very poor in the talent dept

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02-02-2012, 11:33 PM
  #267
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I had to turn the game off after the end of the 2nd to go to dinner with my girlfriend. Can someone explain to me what happened with Kaberle that was so stupid?

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02-02-2012, 11:39 PM
  #268
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If you look at the playing time, you see why we lost.

How does AK...who was playing a solid game only get 12-13mins and Darche gets 18+, Gomez gets about 12?????


This is a big reason we keep losing leads....the players we have out there most of the time are very poor in the talent dept
Best post tonight.

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02-02-2012, 11:55 PM
  #269
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I come in peace.

But not to sound like a homer, I truly think after watching the replay of the GWG, it looks like stick on stick and not a hook.

Mad props to Subban. Love that guy.

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02-02-2012, 11:59 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Desharnais scores, but then is on for 3 goals. Great vision buddy
he finished -1

so unless he plays the pk, your wrong.

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02-03-2012, 12:01 AM
  #271
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he finished -1

so unless he plays the pk, your wrong.
weird because he was on the ice for the Zubrus goal, the Parise goal and the empty net goal.

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02-03-2012, 12:05 AM
  #272
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weird because he was on the ice for the Zubrus goal, the Parise goal and the empty net goal.
weird indeed....

empty netters do count against the +/- don't they?

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02-03-2012, 12:05 AM
  #273
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I will say this, I don't know why RC continues to just throw out the DD line intact on the PP. The PP is an entirely different beast than ES and the line isn't clicking at all. Pacioretty appears to me to be a bit lost out there on the PP. I don't know why RC doesn't at least change that piece of the equation.

The fact that Gomez has seen one second of PP time and AK none (or almost none if he's seen any) since Gomez returned is a complete er to me.
That's one mind-boggling thing. Pacioretty was one of the best down low and goal mouth scorers in the league last year. This season they've got him trying to be Kovalev or Cammalleri on the half wall and he's not like those guys. Sure Cole seems to be doing alright as the net man this season (on other teams he hasn't been all that great there).

Now that they don't have Cammalleri anymore I'd say try Kostitsyn there or maybe Plekanec and use Pacioretty as the goal mouth guy on the second unit.

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02-03-2012, 12:08 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
That's one mind-boggling thing. Pacioretty was one of the best down low and goal mouth scorers in the league last year. This season they've got him trying to be Kovalev or Cammalleri on the half wall and he's not like those guys. Sure Cole seems to be doing alright as the net man this season (on other teams he hasn't been all that great there).

Now that they don't have Cammalleri anymore I'd say try Kostitsyn there or maybe Plekanec and use Pacioretty as the goal mouth guy on the second unit.
I still don't get why Pacioretty and Cole are playing together at all times. It's fun to watch and statistically it's very nice - at home, but it's creating a heavy level of imbalance. It seems like the fans, Cunneyworth thinks that having one line with nice numbers is more important than balance. The two and a half men line is an even strength beast, but it's not going to carry the team.

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02-03-2012, 12:09 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
That's one mind-boggling thing. Pacioretty was one of the best down low and goal mouth scorers in the league last year. This season they've got him trying to be Kovalev or Cammalleri on the half wall and he's not like those guys. Sure Cole seems to be doing alright as the net man this season (on other teams he hasn't been all that great there).

Now that they don't have Cammalleri anymore I'd say try Kostitsyn there or maybe Plekanec and use Pacioretty as the goal mouth guy on the second unit.
For me it's an absolute no brainer to split up Cole and Pacioretty on the powerplay. You have two players who play the same game on one unit...two guys who also aren't the greatest passers is the universe.

The forward units should be
Cole Desharnais Plekanec

Pacioretty Eller Kostitsyn

How long will it take for them to break up the PP units, they don't work it's blatantly obvious.

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