People who make that mistake (of focusing solely on goals and assists) really don't understand the fabric of the game and what you need to win.
Um, I think that means you. I suppose Poile should give Trotz a pink slip and place you behind the bench. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with Trotz from time to time. But I realize that Trotz may have a tad more credibility with the whole coaching professional hockey thing.
Are goals and assists the only stats that matter to you?
dont try to belittle my hockey sense... I'm sure mine is just as great as yours. smithson played his role well 3 years ago... he's being passed up by multiple players.. do you not get that? not to mention committing alot of minors that puts us on the PK and him in the box.. where he can't be on the PK which is what he's so good at... I dont see it
The win/loss stat lately is the one that stands out in my mind. IIRC They've lost the 2 games when he played in the last month or so. Off the top of my head those loses have also come against VAN and NYR. So is it Smithson, or the level of talent of our opposition?
I think that is the level of talent, but he suppose to help us win games like that, but he doesn't...
Like I said earlier, I think the version of this team has outgrown smithson.
As far as the minor penalties, I expect a few hooking, roughing, holding, whatever. Everyone has them. Hpwever, he has no excuse to be taking any sort of penalty 200 feet away from his net. He has done this more than a few times and that is what infuriates me about him. I am fine with him doing his patented dump in the corner on a breakaway. I am not with bad penalties.
Like I said earlier, I think the version of this team has outgrown smithson.
As far as the minor penalties, I expect a few hooking, roughing, holding, whatever. Everyone has them. Hpwever, he has no excuse to be taking any sort of penalty 200 feet away from his net. He has done this more than a few times and that is what infuriates me about him. I am fine with him doing his patented dump in the corner on a breakaway. I am not with bad penalties.
bingo. like I said we've outgrown him. he's a step slower
dont try to belittle my hockey sense... I'm sure mine is just as great as yours. smithson played his role well 3 years ago... he's being passed up by multiple players.. do you not get that? not to mention committing alot of minors that puts us on the PK and him in the box.. where he can't be on the PK which is what he's so good at... I dont see it
And that is exactly my point. My hockey sense is not great at all. That's why I defer to Trotz's evaluation when it comes to intangibles and skills not easily quantifiable. I don't rant and rave that Trotz is an idiot because I can't see the reasoning behind his decisions.
Last edited by WartracePred: 02-09-2012 at 03:35 PM.
And that is exactly my point. My hockey sense is great at all. That's why I defer to Trotz's evaluation when it comes to intangibles and skills not easily quantifiable. I don't rant and rave that Trotz is an idiot because I can't see the reasoning behind his decisions.
I dont think trotz is an idiot... don't take my posts out of context..
when 95% of the posters think smithson has been passed up, something should be changed.. the hockey knowledge of our posters is quite good. we're not trotz but we watch this team.. every game & every shift. smithson has sucked so tremendously this season.. combine that with trotz' notorious track record of favoring veterans over rookies despite play.. I think maybe you can see why most posters are ready for smithson to be gone.
also trotz is a great coach but coaches don't always make the right decisions. they are just like us.. I am confident by seasons end we will see smithson's role diminish even more
Smithson sucks. He needs to be gone. He kills any offense we might generate from the 4th line and that's what has made us successful this season, 4 lines contributing. Put Yip out with Smith and Hali and be done with Smithson already.
I dont think trotz is an idiot... don't take my posts out of context..
when 95% of the posters think smithson has been passed up, something should be changed.. the hockey knowledge of our posters is quite good. we're not trotz but we watch this team.. every game & every shift. smithson has sucked so tremendously this season.. combine that with trotz' notorious track record of favoring veterans over rookies despite play.. I think maybe you can see why most posters are ready for smithson to be gone.
also trotz is a great coach but coaches don't always make the right decisions. they are just like us.. I am confident by seasons end we will see smithson's role diminish even more
Using that logic, we should have passed on Yip and SK, traded Wilson last summer, and quite possibly have signed Dan Ellis to a long term deal because, well, that's what message board herd mentality dictated.
Smithson = role player. McGrattan = role player. Hell, even Ellis = role player.
because he doesn't score ....he not supposed to score
No, because the younger forwards can do his job, will get better at doing his job with ice time AND could score more often. Smithson just isn't all that talented...
No, because the younger forwards can do his job, will get better at doing his job with ice time AND could score more often. Smithson just isn't all that talented...
They are now but what happens when they don't defensive players are easily replaced ...you say....
On a scale of 1-10 of importance he's a 2. He wins faceoffs and that's all. He keeps better players from playing every season and this time around it's Yip. If Trotz didn't have a long-running man crush on Smithson this wouldn't be an issue.
Using that logic, we should have passed on Yip and SK, traded Wilson last summer, and quite possibly have signed Dan Ellis to a long term deal because, well, that's what message board herd mentality dictated.
Smithson = role player. McGrattan = role player. Hell, even Ellis = role player.
On a scale of 1-10 of importance he's a 2. He wins faceoffs and that's all. He keeps better players from playing every season and this time around it's Yip. If Trotz didn't have a long-running man crush on Smithson this wouldn't be an issue.
Trotz I don't all about his crushes or not but he likes what a veteran brings to the playoffs when rookies tend to shy away come playoff time
Trotz I don't all about his crushes or not but he likes what a veteran brings to the playoffs when rookies tend to shy away come playoff time
He's been favoring Smithson for a long time. He has "outlasted" quite a few 4th line centers here who many thought were just as good, if not better, than him. He has "won out" over guys like Fidder, Scott Nichol, O'Reilly, Goc, and dare we forget.......we didn't have the roster space for Rich Peverley because Smithson was too busy taking his spot. Safe to say I think Peverley did fine without us.
I agree that he brings a veteran presence and that's fine but we are so loaded with talented guys that can play center that it may become a bit of an inconvenience to keep him around.
Smithson turned into a whipping boy fast around here huh?
The problem I have with Smithson being in the line up is he's not really making a difference on a shut down line or the PK. If he is making a bit of difference on those it's negligible. Right now it seems he is taking faceoffs well but isn't providing anything other than that.
I'm not sure if it is his injury or what but he also seems to have lost a step. On the PK it doesn't matter how hard you work if your not quick enough to get in position you need to be in your not going to be useful.
There is too much young two way talent to waste a spot on Smithson IMO. If we were top heavy in scoring I wouldn't have as much of a problem being in the lineup but that's not the case.
If he is in the lineup Please get him away from Smith and Halischuck. If Smithson must be iced please go with:
He's been favoring Smithson for a long time. He has "outlasted" quite a few 4th line centers here who many thought were just as good, if not better, than him. He has "won out" over guys like Fidder, Scott Nichol, O'Reilly, Goc, and dare we forget.......we didn't have the roster space for Rich Peverley because Smithson was too busy taking his spot. Safe to say I think Peverley did fine without us.
I agree that he brings a veteran presence and that's fine but we are so loaded with talented guys that can play center that it may become a bit of an inconvenience to keep him around.
Agree totally. I see his role diminishing with more healthy scratches in the future.
He's been favoring Smithson for a long time. He has "outlasted" quite a few 4th line centers here who many thought were just as good, if not better, than him. He has "won out" over guys like Fidder, Scott Nichol, O'Reilly, Goc, and dare we forget.......we didn't have the roster space for Rich Peverley because Smithson was too busy taking his spot. Safe to say I think Peverley did fine without us.
I agree that he brings a veteran presence and that's fine but we are so loaded with talented guys that can play center that it may become a bit of an inconvenience to keep him around.
Peverley is a top 9 playmaker. Smithson is a 4th line grinder/PK specialist. Totally different roles and spots. Other than Nichol, the players you listed were all 3rd liners.
On any given night, there is a choice between McGrattan, Smithson, and Yip ... all role players, grinders, 4th liners. One is a PK and face off specialist, one is an enforcer, and one is a 4th line waiver pickup that only a couple of weeks ago had the boards questioning why Poile even signed him.
Peverley is a top 9 playmaker. Smithson is a 4th line grinder/PK specialist. Totally different roles and spots. Other than Nichol, the players you listed were all 3rd liners.
On any given night, there is a choice between McGrattan, Smithson, and Yip ... all role players, grinders, 4th liners. One is a PK and face off specialist, one is an enforcer, and one is a 4th line waiver pickup that only a couple of weeks ago had the boards questioning why Poile even signed him.
Fair enough, although just because Peverley has reached his potential doesn't mean he wasn't ever shoved down the the 4th line with us. It became a joke that he went from our 4th line straight to the top line in Atlanta centering Kovalchuk. If I recall correctly he never really had a spot with us. He bounced around all kinds of lines including the 4th one. But I digress, we don't "need" to get rid of Smithson and he's fine at what he does but I think the bar is set a little low on what our 4th line center should really be capable of. No we don't need someone like Legwand centering the 4th line, but a little boost over a Smithson-type would be nice. Which, I guess, is why some people want to see Yip play I suppose, because we have no other option right now. McGrattan is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
PS am I the only one that sees a little similarity between Yip and Brandon Bochenski? He was a random pickup that showed some flashes of ability and surprised some with his speed and shooting ability. Then they're the same type of player both in build and skillset. I don't think Yip is the next coming of Steve Sullivan or anything, just saying I think his role can be useful with the team over a relatively lengthy period of time.
Yip, Smithson, Boullion, Hillen, etc. are the kind of players every team needs, but are easily interchangeable. You can never have too many guys like Smithson who are veteran leaders who can play at the NHL level, even if they aren't took productive. They're good locker room guys and good fill-ins for injuries. Even if smithson turns into a permascratch, which I want, he is excellent injury insurance and with help in the locker room. Every team has a few fringe NHL vets like this, and its not a bad thing at all.
He's been favoring Smithson for a long time. He has "outlasted" quite a few 4th line centers here who many thought were just as good, if not better, than him. He has "won out" over guys like Fidder, Scott Nichol, O'Reilly, Goc, and dare we forget.......we didn't have the roster space for Rich Peverley because Smithson was too busy taking his spot. Safe to say I think Peverley did fine without us.
I agree that he brings a veteran presence and that's fine but we are so loaded with talented guys that can play center that it may become a bit of an inconvenience to keep him around.
