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A look at attendance vs. performance

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Old
10-23-2004, 06:29 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxsports.com
Of the expansion clubs, only two the Nashville Predators and Carolina Hurricanes appear to be a cause for concern.
Mistake me if I am wrong, but I thought the exapnsion teams were Minnesota, Nashville, Columbus, and Atlanta.

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10-23-2004, 07:06 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PecaFan
Only because they missed the playoffs. Nedved was fantastic in Edmonton, and they finished two points out of the final spot. That move very nearly paid off in *millions* of dollars.

Sitting back and not even trying is a loser's game.
But the goal is to be able to sign the young 'core' - to keep them together so that you have a much better chance to make the playoffs year-after-year... That's how elite teams are built... That's how they generate the $ that they do - it comes from year-after-year success... IMO, the goal isn't to just make the playoffs this year... Sure, it nearly paid off in *millions* - a one time bonanza - but it didn't...

IMO, EDM is not in a position to gamble like this... When they do, and then complain that they don't have the money to keep their 'core' - that to me is a loser's game...

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Old
10-23-2004, 07:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Digger12
Actually, the Rangers paid Nedved's salary during his short stay w/ Edmonton...so he was basically a free rental for the Oilers.
If he was a free rental, then I take it back... it was a good move

But, IMO, not if they had to pay for him

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10-24-2004, 02:40 AM
  #29
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Who's to say it would have been a one time thing? Making the playoffs earns them millions of dollars, so they can afford to sign some of their guys instead of watching them leave, it gives everyone valuable playoff experience and confidence for next year, so they're more likely to make the playoffs next year as well, etc.

Official deal was Nedved and Markkanen for Helminen, Valiquette, and their 2nd round compensation pick. That's a guy who was picked 244th overall, and a career minor league goalie they had to give up. 2nd round pick is worth a bit, but they got their backup goalie for that.

I'd say they gave up nothing, with a great shot at getting excellent return. Didn't quite work out, but still, a great move.

No guts, no glory.

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Old
10-24-2004, 09:38 AM
  #30
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Id say Nedved turned out to be a pretty good move too. Signing him to a long term 4 year $20-30mil contract would be stupid. But the ability to get short term help cheap is available in this system for any team. Because teams make money decisions and will trade expensive assets nearing the end of a contract for picks and prospects. Edmonton can compete on a level playing field with Detroit in offering picks and prospects for short term rentals.

In principle its probably not wise for Edmonton to tie up Nedved in a long term contract, thats better done by a team in different circumstances, the important thing is they have the ability to do it each year short term in this system, until they build to the point where it might actually make sense to sign someone like him long term.

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10-24-2004, 09:40 AM
  #31
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Oh and it would seem that teams that have great playoff performances get great attendance. So obviously if you want your team to have great playoff success, you should ensure you have great attendance. Kind of puts success in the hands of the fans. Not bad.

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Old
10-24-2004, 12:18 PM
  #32
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for the most part, this is a pretty good read...aside from some flawed points, which spank already pointed out. it baffles me how..after 5 or 6 years in a young, inexperienced hockey market...people are ready to slam the door and declare these places as "failed." They never liked the idea to begin with, and now that their already thin patience has worn out..they're ready to close the book and move everyone back to where they belong...Canadian cities who would likely have attendance just as poor if the on-ice product was as bad as it was in say, Carolina. Expansion, especially to an 'experimental' market is something that CAN and probably WILL work..but it requires the luxury of time, something a lot of people aren't willing to concede.

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Old
10-24-2004, 01:23 PM
  #33
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I agree, the quickness with which fans declare everything failed is remarkably shortsighted. Ottawa was failed for years and pretty much written off as failed and on its way to Portland. Tampa Bay was consistently one of the first teams mentioned in any contraction thread. Colorado actually failed as a laughingstock market the first time. NJ was called a mickey mouse market. Mickey Mouses real market actually made it against them to the finals. Vancouver was a small market team like Ottawa needing life support and deep playoff trends just for their owner to break even. (Which we now know was a lie. Burke looked directly in the camera and told us a bald faced lie with a completely sincere face).

If Nashville were in Winnipeg, they would be the most celebrated blue collar crew in the league. Winnipeg would love that team. But Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Minnesota, even Carolina around Staal, Chicago, these are all teams building properly. These teams will be the threats in a short while. Their owners bet the payoff was there if they succeed, and it makes sense to me. Like any restaurant suffering start up costs while they develop a clientele, their payoff is yet to come. And some of these franchises are actually very profirtable already.

Some will fail. Failure is a natural occurence in sports. Not a sign the CBA needs fixing.

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Old
10-24-2004, 02:07 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Who's to say it would have been a one time thing? Making the playoffs earns them millions of dollars, so they can afford to sign some of their guys instead of watching them leave, it gives everyone valuable playoff experience and confidence for next year, so they're more likely to make the playoffs next year as well, etc.
IMHO, it was a short term strategy designed to try and make the playoffs last year... I don't think Nedved was acquired as part of any long term plan...

Making the playoffs is a very good thing - in terms of money and valuable playoff team experience and confidence... But who's to say that EDM wouldn't have just barely missed the playoffs even without Nedved?

Yes, perhaps Nedved gave EDM a higher probability to make the playoffs... But acquiring Nedved didn't guarantee EDM additional success... It was a gamble - one that just happened not to pay off... IF EDM paid a lot of money for this gamble, IMO, it was a bad move (given that they don't have a lot of money to begin with)... IF EDM didn't pay a lot of money, then IMO, it was a good, smart move...

Given EDM's position, extra money should be conserved to keep their 'core' (i.e. to 'pay their bills')... not to go to Vegas and gamble the paycheck away... not if they are complaining that they can't afford to 'pay their bills'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Official deal was Nedved and Markkanen for Helminen, Valiquette, and their 2nd round compensation pick. That's a guy who was picked 244th overall, and a career minor league goalie they had to give up. 2nd round pick is worth a bit, but they got their backup goalie for that.

I'd say they gave up nothing, with a great shot at getting excellent return. Didn't quite work out, but still, a great move.
I'm talking from a $ point of view... If they spent a lot of money on Nedved, it was a shortsighted gamble, IMO (because my understanding is that EDM doesn't have a lot of money to begin with)... If they spent nothing, I agree that it was a great move...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
No guts, no glory.
Yes, but you have to pick your battles carefully (especially when you have limited resources)... You don't need to win every battle to win the war...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 10-24-2004 at 02:13 PM.
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Old
10-24-2004, 02:29 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye
Yes, but you have to pick your battles carefully (especially when you have limited resources)... You don't need to win every battle to win the war...
The war doesnt end each year. It goes on for years. You have to plan long term because it can take a long time to develop your draft picks into contenders. Wait until you are strong enough to declare war. The idea that every team should be trying for the cup each year is ridiculous to me. It shows no respect.

As said so eloquently here

Quote:
A great portion of the NFL's appeal years ago was watching the great teams materialize. Without exception, they put together a nucleus with strong drafts and then added players to fill in the weak spots. Those teams cut their teeth with playoff runs that usually ended at the hands of an older, more experienced great team. Finally, the team established itself, and other teams had to improve to match them.

The process took years, but you could track their rise like a hurricane brewing in the Gulf.

Today, teams strike with the suddenness of a tornado and disappear into the back pages of the history books just as quickly.

A whole new generation of football fans is growing up judging the quality of teams by their performance in video games. The new generation does not know any better, it knows nothing about how a real team, a team that sticks together through years of ups and downs, operates

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Old
10-24-2004, 02:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
The war doesnt end each year. It goes on for years. You have to plan long term because it can take a long time to develop your draft picks into contenders. Wait until you are strong enough to declare war. The idea that every team should be trying for the cup each year is ridiculous to me. It shows no respect.

As said so eloquently here
I agree...

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