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LA Kings interested in Nikolai Kulemin and Clarke MacArthur.

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02-04-2012, 09:57 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
It's easy to understand. It's just flat wrong, and typing it in caps doesn't make it true.
LOL It's flat out wrong...yet....you don't watch Martinez play....

Tell me then....who on LA's defense..would Gunnarson take minutes from...that Martinez doesn't already?

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02-04-2012, 09:59 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Nope, I've seen him play for the past few years, he was one of the key reasons I was for a Kaberle trade.....Gunnarson is a good puck moving D, he makes very solid first passes out of the zone, just like Martinez....
Tell me since you've seen them both so much: Who is better in his own end?

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02-04-2012, 10:01 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
LOL I love how YOU bring up age and now try to ignore it. Just like you ignored my question: what makes you think Martinez has more upside? Just because you make a claim doesn't make it true.

#2: Gunnarson makes 1.3 million. Most GMs would rather spend 1.3m on a #3 or 4 dman than 750k on a 6th/7 like Martinez. And despite Martinez being cheaper, it's funny that the Leafs have more cap room, the same number of pts and a game in hand on the Kings. Must be that great cap management. According to capgeek they have the 3rd highest payroll. Yet they underperform.

#3 Oh you are totally right, Martinez wouldn't be 6 on every team. In fact if he was on my team, the Bruins, he would be a #3... in Providence.
He has more upside, simple, he plays a smarter game than Gunnarson does on most nights, at a younger age. He is more poised, and again, he would play Gunnarson's minutes, on TOR.

Most GM's would spend 750K on a #4 than 1.3 million on a #4.

And on your team, the Bruins, he would be a #6, unless you really think that McQuaid is the answer... He wouldn't play over Chara, Seidenberg, Corvo, and probably Boychuk, he would give Ference a run for his money, but they play different styles, and he would more than likely play over McQuaid...

But let's not bias get in your way.....it's not like you actually watch Martinez play.

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02-04-2012, 10:01 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
LOL It's flat out wrong...yet....you don't watch Martinez play....

Tell me then....who on LA's defense..would Gunnarson take minutes from...that Martinez doesn't already?
LOL it's funny how you have this habit of saying things and assuming they are facts. I do watch Martinez play, but I can play that game too: You don't agree with me so therefor you must not watch Gunnarson play.

Wow that's fun.

YOU are the one who didn't know the age of the 2 players and was trying to say that one had a big edge in age. You are the one who 2x has been asked to back up your claim that Martinez has more upside, and yet have avoided backing it up.

LOL indeed.

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02-04-2012, 10:02 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Tell me since you've seen them both so much: Who is better in his own end?
I'd say it's pretty equal, Martinez is solid in his own end as is Gunnarson,

I never said Martinez was better than Gunnarsson ffs, I said he was essentially the same type of player.

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02-04-2012, 10:04 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
LOL it's funny how you have this habit of saying things and assuming they are facts. I do watch Martinez play, but I can play that game too: You don't agree with me so therefor you must not watch Gunnarson play.

Wow that's fun.

YOU are the one who didn't know the age of the 2 players and was trying to say that one had a big edge in age. You are the one who 2x has been asked to back up your claim that Martinez has more upside, and yet have avoided backing it up.

LOL indeed.
Quote me where I said Martinez had a big edge in age? I said he was younger, cheaper and had more upside....

You asked how he had more upside, I just told you....

So....go ahead, show me where I said Martinez had a big edge in age?

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02-04-2012, 10:04 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
And on your team, the Bruins, he would be a #6, unless you really think that McQuaid is the answer... He wouldn't play over Chara, Seidenberg, Corvo, and probably Boychuk, he would give Ference a run for his money, but they play different styles, and he would more than likely play over McQuaid...

But let's not bias get in your way.....it's not like you actually watch Martinez play.
LOL it's not like you actually watched the Stanley Cup playoffs if you think Alec "#7" Martinez would beat out McQuaid. But I understand completely, as a Kings fan there is never any need to watch hockey in April, May or June. But don't let your rampant homerism get in the way.

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02-04-2012, 10:05 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
I'd say it's pretty equal, Martinez is solid in his own end as is Gunnarson,

I never said Martinez was better than Gunnarsson ffs, I said he was essentially the same type of player.
You don't watch Gunnarson play. They aren't remotely the same.

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02-04-2012, 10:06 PM
  #459
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Holy hell people, at least READ what I am saying.

Martinez would be playing the SAME MINUTES if he was in Toronto and Gunnarson would be playing the SAME MINUTES MARTINEZ IS, if he was in L.A.

How hard is that to understand?
He wouldn't be playing.

Our lineup healthy is

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Schenn
Liles-Franson
Komi

Whose he kicking out... Im not seeing it.

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02-04-2012, 10:08 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
He wouldn't be playing.

Our lineup healthy is

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Schenn
Liles-Franson
Komi

Whose he kicking out... Im not seeing it.
Wow....again, Martinez IS the same type of player Gunnarson is, so Gunnar would be the answer...

And Schenn is halfway out the door, but you are right there....you don't replace the type of D Schenn is, with a Martinez/Gunnarson type player...

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02-04-2012, 10:08 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
He wouldn't be playing.

Our lineup healthy is

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Schenn
Liles-Franson
Komi

Whose he kicking out... Im not seeing it.
Then Aulie and then MAYBE Martinez, but Blacker is younger, cheaper and has more upside.

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02-04-2012, 10:08 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
You don't watch Gunnarson play. They aren't remotely the same.
LOL sure I don't...and you're right...not even remotely the same...

Both are solid offensively, both can QB a PP, both make good first passes, both are solid in their own end....but no....nowhere near the same type of player...

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02-04-2012, 10:09 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
LOL it's funny how you have this habit of saying things and assuming they are facts. I do watch Martinez play, but I can play that game too: You don't agree with me so therefor you must not watch Gunnarson play.

Wow that's fun.

YOU are the one who didn't know the age of the 2 players and was trying to say that one had a big edge in age. You are the one who 2x has been asked to back up your claim that Martinez has more upside, and yet have avoided backing it up.

LOL indeed.
Martinez has a terrific stride and is very skillful on his skates. He has progressed in his hockey sense and skill every year. Im not going to make the judgement that he IS more valuable than Gunnarson but I can definately understand why people would argue the case

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02-04-2012, 10:10 PM
  #464
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A 15 minute defenceman on the 5th best defensive team or a 22 minute guy on one of the worst in the NHL? I wouldnt call that success would you?
Considering their respective styles of play and goaltending...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drugold View Post
I dont think you understand. Johnson was NEVER a UFA and your talking about "moving" him in the prior post. I thought you were insinuating your lack of knowledge to the public. Sorry I was confused
That's exactly my point. I said the Kings weren't going to move Johnson. It's filling one hole by creating another.

Somebody tried to suggest that just because Johnson didn't get his rumored demands of $5m, that Ruutu won't either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
LOL again, you don't follow the team much do you, Voynov and Martinez can easily fill the hole left by Johnson, IF the Kings trade him, not that I am advocating that, just mentioning the Kings depth.



Martinez is a 15 minute Defenseman on a team who features Doughty and Johnson as their top 2, with Scuderi and Mitchell providing the experience and leadership in the #2 and #4...

On Toronto, Martinez would do exactly what Gunnarson does....but you can't seem to fathom for that some reason....maybe because you have never seen him play?
You've got some ridiculous faith in unproven defencemen.

Martinez would do exactly what Gunnarsson does? He'd play on our top pair? you really think that :sad. Just like Stoll would do exactly like Bozak does?!?

For a team that has as many points as the Kings with 1 fewer game played, the Leafs sure are filled with some reallly crappy players.

The reality is -- when you consider the difference in goaltending between the two teams, Toronto's skaters are better than Los Angeles'. Maybe it's guys like Komisarek who would be a top pair defenceman on the Kings, or Kulemin a top line winger on the Kings instead of the other way around like you suggest. Oh wait, Kulemin probably would be.

Let me guess... next you're going to try and sell us on future #1 defenceman and former 4th overall pick Thomas Hickey!

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02-04-2012, 10:10 PM
  #465
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who the *#&$ is alec martinez?

gunnarsson >>>> martinez

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02-04-2012, 10:10 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by drugold View Post
Martinez has a terrific stride and is very skillful on his skates. He has progressed in his hockey sense and skill every year. Im not going to make the judgement that he IS more valuable than Gunnarson but I can definately understand why people would argue the case
Hell, I am not even saying that.

I am saying they are essentially the same player....but Dr Quincy Adams over there got something wrong in translation and is trying to protect Gunnarson's honour from....nothing.

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02-04-2012, 10:13 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Considering their respective styles of play and goaltending...



That's exactly my point. I said the Kings weren't going to move Johnson. It's filling one hole by creating another.

Somebody tried to suggest that just because Johnson didn't get his rumored demands of $5m, that Ruutu won't either.



You've got some ridiculous faith in unproven defencemen.

Martinez would do exactly what Gunnarsson does? He'd play on our top pair? you really think that :sad. Just like Stoll would do exactly like Bozak does?!?

For a team that has as many points as the Kings with 1 fewer game played, the Leafs sure are filled with some reallly crappy players.

The reality is -- when you consider the difference in goaltending between Toronto's skaters are better than Los Angeles'.
LOL wow...it's like you guys have an adverse reaction to reading...

Martinez is the same type of player as Gunnarson....btw, any defense claiming Gunnarson OR Martinez as their top pairing D, is a bit on the weakside. The ONLY reason why Gunnarson is playing on the top pairing is, A.) He has developed good chemistry with Phaneuf, and B.) Schenn has played his way out of Toronto pretty much, and I will throw in C) you really don't want Liles and Phaneuf on the same pairing...

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02-04-2012, 10:14 PM
  #468
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Hi Dustin Brown.
YES!!!

would love to have brown

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02-04-2012, 10:15 PM
  #469
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LOL sure I don't...and you're right...not even remotely the same...

Both are solid offensively, both can QB a PP, both make good first passes, both are solid in their own end....but no....nowhere near the same type of player...
One kills penalties, plays on the pp, plays 20 minutes a night, the other doesn't and is a healthy scratch. One has 15 assists the other 0.

But hey I can play that game too: Mike Richards is just like Jeff Halpern. They both are Cs who can play good D, kill a penalty, are good in the faceoff circle... Yup same type of player.. and hey the points scored difference between the 2 of them is just about the same as the pt difference between Gunnarson and Martinez.

Yup same player.

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02-04-2012, 10:16 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
One kills penalties, plays on the pp, plays 20 minutes a night, the other doesn't and is a healthy scratch. One has 15 assists the other 0.

But hey I can play that game too: Mike Richards is just like Jeff Halpern. They both are Cs who can play good D, kill a penalty, are good in the faceoff circle... Yup same type of player.. and hey the points scored difference between the 2 of them is just about the same as the pt difference between Gunnarson and Martinez.

Yup same player.
You avoided the question again.

Who on LA's D is Martinez supposed to take minutes away from?? Easy question....right?

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02-04-2012, 10:16 PM
  #471
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So Kulemin for Martinez and a condition 7th is a lock?

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02-04-2012, 10:18 PM
  #472
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Wow....again, Martinez IS the same type of player Gunnarson is, so Gunnar would be the answer...

And Schenn is halfway out the door, but you are right there....you don't replace the type of D Schenn is, with a Martinez/Gunnarson type player...
Well thank god Ron Wilson doesn't share that logic.

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02-04-2012, 10:18 PM
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
One kills penalties, plays on the pp, plays 20 minutes a night, the other doesn't and is a healthy scratch. One has 15 assists the other 0.

But hey I can play that game too: Mike Richards is just like Jeff Halpern. They both are Cs who can play good D, kill a penalty, are good in the faceoff circle... Yup same type of player.. and hey the points scored difference between the 2 of them is just about the same as the pt difference between Gunnarson and Martinez.

Yup same player.

But Halpern is American

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02-04-2012, 10:18 PM
  #474
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LOL wow...it's like you guys have an adverse reaction to reading...

Martinez is the same type of player as Gunnarson..
Moving the goalposts. That isn't what you said at first. There is a difference between saying 2 players are the same type and saying that they are essentially the same player. One implies an equality in quality and the other doesn't.

So which is it? Are they similar style players but with Gunnarson having a clear edge in quality, or are they equal in quality?

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02-04-2012, 10:19 PM
  #475
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LOL wow...it's like you guys have an adverse reaction to reading...

Martinez is the same type of player as Gunnarson....btw, any defense claiming Gunnarson OR Martinez as their top pairing D, is a bit on the weakside. The ONLY reason why Gunnarson is playing on the top pairing is, A.) He has developed good chemistry with Phaneuf, and B.) Schenn has played his way out of Toronto pretty much, and I will throw in C) you really don't want Liles and Phaneuf on the same pairing...
Same type? not really, but similar. However, tat doesn't mean they're the same calibre. Gunnarsson is pretty much leaps and bounds above Martinez at this point in their respective careers. It's why Gunnarsson plays 22:20 a night in all situations (2:50sh leading his team, 1:37pp) while Martinez plays 15:26 a night, almost 2 minutes of which is on the powerplay. Furthermore, with all that powerplay time, you've really gotta question just how desparate the Kings are when they're playing a guy with 0 assists this year almost 2 minutes on the powerplay.

Yes he plays on the top pair because he has the best chemistry with Phaneuf, but even if he didn't, he'd still be playing upwards of 20 minutes a night, because that's how much he deserves to play.

Of course, the cap is a consideration... but $1.3m for a top 4 dman is another world when compared to $800k for a bottom pair guy.


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