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LA Kings interested in Nikolai Kulemin and Clarke MacArthur.

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Old
02-03-2012, 08:49 PM
  #176
Brent Burns
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I can honestly see Kyle Clifford doing well if given a good chance

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02-03-2012, 08:53 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by grits207 View Post
There is really nothing I'd want the Leafs to get from the Kings aside from their key players which they obviously aren't going to move.
Agreed, I know Burke wanted Mike Richards in the summer, but I wouldn't think LA would want to part with him.

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02-03-2012, 09:00 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Richie to Brownie View Post
Anyone saying Richards gets moved hasn't watched him play with the Kings. No way in hell he does
I have no interest in Richards.

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02-03-2012, 09:01 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Brown was only 22 while Kulemin was 24.

Brown in his 4th yr scored 33 goals at 23 yrs of age.

This is Kulemin 4th yr ,he's 25 and on pace for 8 goals.

Brown is much better than Kulemin.
Horrible argument.

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02-03-2012, 09:02 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Brent Burns View Post
I can honestly see Kyle Clifford doing well if given a good chance
What? He is doing well.

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02-03-2012, 09:10 PM
  #181
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
If Kulemin is involved, one of Dustin Brown or Mike Richards have to be involved.

For MacArthur, it should be a deal involving Kyle Clifford or prospects/picks.
Without trying to be overdramatic... you're basically spot on when it comes to the first part.

The Kings, despite being a good hockey team, don't have a ton of pieces that the Leafs should be interested in. We're overloaded on the blueline, which leaves goaltending and forwards. Considering the Leafs strength being 2nd and 3rd line talent, the only guys who can make the significant upgrade we need are Kopitar, Richards, Brown, or Quick. If we can't get one of those guys, there's really not much sense in losing a valuable guy like Kulemin.

On the MacArthur front, I see absolutely no reason to trade him for a clear downgrade in Clifford. Sure, a lot of people felt that Mac's performance last year was a one-hit wonder, and his point totals may suggest that to be the case, but then you have to realize that this guy has 16 goals in 44 games. He'll probably end up in the low-mid 20s, which is good for the $3.25m we're paying him. Sure, the assist numbers leave something to be desired, but you can also blame part of that on Kulemin's struggles around the net this year.

These are two teams in remarkably similar positions right now. Neither is in a position to lose some of their better players, and while Kulemin in struggling offensively, I don't believe Burke is anywhere close to giving up on him... which means the only way he goes is if a player that's better than him comes back. The Leafs need to be consolidating assets, not increasing depth levels.

edit: For the Kings fans who keep going crazy when Leafs fans say Richards, Kopitar or Brown -- Kulemin may not be worth that to you, that's fine. It's simply a case where you don't have anyone else that's worth moving him from a team that needs to consolidate talent. If Los Angeles decides that Kulemin or MacArthur is the player they need, then let's find out what else the Leafs need to include to get the player they need.

BTW, from both teams perspective, doing something like Kulemin + MacArthur for Brown + futures probably wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. Los Angeles adds 2 players who have shown the ability to produce at the rate that Brown produces, giving them added depth to get them out of the basement offensively. Toronto gets the more consistent proven talent, and opens up a spot to make a defenceman-for-forward swap.


Last edited by seanlinden: 02-03-2012 at 09:27 PM.
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02-03-2012, 09:18 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
All the Kings' numbers are down obviously, but both Lewis and Clifford struggled for the first half of the season taking on new roles within the club. Our bottom 6 has taken considerable hits over the past couple of seasons while we have been focusing on bolstering our top 6. Both have been turning it on though as of late.

Lewis has taken a long time to develop, but he is rock solid defensively and a great PK specialist, he has recently shown that he has good hands in shootouts/breakaways/penalty shots, but his primary asset is his speed. He is one of the best and fastest skaters on the team and can catch opponents napping. He has great energy and can play both center and right wing. He's expected to be a solid third liner with the ability to jump onto the second line for slight periods of time.

Clifford's primary asset is his grit. He is mature and plays hard, he has deceptively decent hands and shot, but isn't expected to be a big offensive producing bottom 6 like Simmonds, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him punch out numbers in the same ballpark for a couple seasons throughout his career. He has good speed and a tenacity that is not always shared by his teammates. He's willing to drop the gloves any given game, but isn't much of a fighter, more of a middle to lightweight scrapper.
Thanks for the thorough insight!

Lewis sounds like a decent 3rd line centre that I would not mind to have on the Leafs. He's a decent sized guy for the bottom six and Burke likes to pick up former first rounders by looking at the Leafs team.
If he brings the kind of energy and speed a Mike Brown does then I'm all for picking him up for the 3rd line.

Clifford sounds like a younger Armstrong. If Armstrong is suddenly traded, I wouldn't mind someone like Clifford to help replace him for a cheaper price. He's more the age range the rest of the Leafs are anyways.

Maybe MacArthur will be replaced by Kadri sooner or later and Burke trades Clarke to the Kings. Would a trade involving Lewis and Clifford for MacArthur work out?

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02-03-2012, 09:33 PM
  #183
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MacArthur for Stoll + Clifford

Thats about what we'd need for Mac if LA wanted him. Stoll is having a horrid year (and makes more than Mac), and Clifford hasn't done much thus far in his young career to warrent much of a return.

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02-03-2012, 09:48 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Kulemin will get a nice contract in the off season as there will not be much out there.
He's an RFA.

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02-03-2012, 09:52 PM
  #185
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Both cap friendly nice forwards with good offence...can't see them moving unless part of a bigger deal to land a bona fide # 1 center

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02-03-2012, 09:55 PM
  #186
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Bernier + Clifford would certainly be of interest to Burke.
Not sure what L.A would want with either Mac/Kulemin.
Kadri would be a good fit in L.A however ...

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02-03-2012, 09:55 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
forechecking/backchecking is the only things Kulemin has done well constantly this year.
There aren't many players who do.

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02-03-2012, 10:02 PM
  #188
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For thoses leafs thinking that clifford will be traded i think will be wrong. Simply put clifford is just starting to get his game together.As in his rookie year he started out slow and just got better. Tonight he was on the 2nd line with richards for the frist time and he looked damn good there. He also got some power play time. Hes got more offensive upside then most kings fans give him credit for. He has played most of his season with fraser and westgarth/hunter not exactly top offensive guys. i really think /hope he will click on the line with richards and penner.

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02-03-2012, 10:03 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Bernier + Clifford would certainly be of interest to Burke.
Not sure what L.A would want with either Mac/Kulemin.
Kadri would be a good fit in L.A however ...
Why?

What has Clifford done in his career to suggest he'll be any more than a 3rd/4th liner that the Leafs have plenty of?

As for Bernier, whether rightfully placed or not, the Leafs have a ton of confidence in their ability to develop a #1 goaltender.

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02-03-2012, 10:10 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Why?

What has Clifford done in his career to suggest he'll be any more than a 3rd/4th liner that the Leafs have plenty of?

As for Bernier, whether rightfully placed or not, the Leafs have a ton of confidence in their ability to develop a #1 goaltender.

You do know that right now Toronto's 3rd line is Lombardi Connolly Armstrong right?
Combined I think they've played 13 NHL games in the past 3 seasons
They're combined cap hit is in the neighbourhood of 12Million/season ...

Clifford/Lewis would not only be upgrades but they'd come at a fraction of the cost - and might be able to hit someone without breaking a hip/leg/neck/spine

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02-03-2012, 10:30 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Why?

What has Clifford done in his career to suggest he'll be any more than a 3rd/4th liner that the Leafs have plenty of?

As for Bernier, whether rightfully placed or not, the Leafs have a ton of confidence in their ability to develop a #1 goaltender.
Same thing Kadri has done...

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02-03-2012, 10:39 PM
  #192
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Any of our of our top-6 should be available at this point, minus Richards, if the price is right. I'd even deal Kopitar if the return would help this team up front.

LA needs a huge offensive shake-up.

I would make the following immediately available:

Brown
Williams
Penner
Stoll

To a lesser extent:

Kopitar(obviously would require equal talent in return)
Richardson
Westgarth

Trading pieces:

Bernier
Loktionov
Johnson

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02-03-2012, 10:45 PM
  #193
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For those undervaluing Kulemin and MacAthur and saying that a 1st is out of the question, anyone remember that VERSTEEG landed the Leafs a 1st AND 3rd!

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02-03-2012, 10:53 PM
  #194
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Richards/Carter

1st To LA Kings =Kuli + C Mac
To Toronto =Richards
2nd To Columbus =Schenn + Colborne
To Toronto =Carter

Reunited
Starting line up

lupul Grabo Kessel
Kadri Richards Carter
Frattin Bozak lambardi
Brown Armstrong Boyce.


Possible ?

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02-03-2012, 11:03 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Horrible argument.

Then try this one.

186 GP 115 PTS-.61PPG
211 GP 116 PTS-.54PPG
215 GP 140 PTS-.65PPG
206 GP 154 PTS.-.74PPG

Guess who has the worst PPG.

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02-03-2012, 11:05 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by moveslikejagger View Post
1st To LA Kings =Kuli + C Mac
To Toronto =Richards
2nd To Columbus =Schenn + Colborne
To Toronto =Carter

Reunited
Starting line up

lupul Grabo Kessel
Kadri Richards Carter
Frattin Bozak lambardi
Brown Armstrong Boyce.


Possible ?
Love that you posted this on your 4th avatar with 5 posts. Hell no from LA.

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02-03-2012, 11:06 PM
  #197
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You do know that right now Toronto's 3rd line is Lombardi Connolly Armstrong right?
Combined I think they've played 13 NHL games in the past 3 seasons
They're combined cap hit is in the neighbourhood of 12Million/season ...

Clifford/Lewis would not only be upgrades but they'd come at a fraction of the cost - and might be able to hit someone without breaking a hip/leg/neck/spine
Yeah -- 3 guys who have proven to be excellent 3rd liners, at the very least. In the case of Connolly, a true 2nd liner and in the case of Lombardi, a 2nd/3rd 'tweener. Suggesting that Clifford/Lewis would be upgrades is downright laughable. Clifford has what? 23 points in 127 games? Lewis about the same with with 19 points in 123 games. Those aren't 3rd line numbers by any stretch of the imagination.

Would they be cheaper -- sure... but you're ignoring the reason we have those guys on the 3rd line. Connolly is there because we've got Tyler Bozak (who is paid like and probably should be our 3rd line C) playing on the top line. Lombardi was acquired to get Franson, and if there was a team interested in him, I'm sure the Leafs would like to give the spot to Kadri. Armstrong provides a much needed veteran influence on a very young team. You'd have a better chance arguing that they're upgrades over guys like Crabb or Steckel, but wait! Steckel is one of the best faceoff guys in the league, and Joey Crabb has about twice as many points in less NHL games than these 2.

Losing a guy like Kulemin who scored 30 last year or MacArthur who's well on his way to 20 for the second consecutive year to pick up some 4th liners? I don't think so. Want to make us interested in one of those guys? Feel free to take Lombardi, not a guy making $3.25m who scores 20+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Same thing Kadri has done...
Play his final 2 seasons in the OHL at well over a point per game and 1.5 points per game respectively?

Play his first AHL season at nearly a point per game?

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02-03-2012, 11:06 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Johnny Bang Bang View Post
For those undervaluing Kulemin and MacAthur and saying that a 1st is out of the question, anyone remember that VERSTEEG landed the Leafs a 1st AND 3rd!
Your statement is written in such away that it leads one to believe that you think Kulemin or MacArthur are of the same value as Versteeg. Just wondering if you knew that

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02-03-2012, 11:09 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Yeah -- 3 guys who have proven to be excellent 3rd liners, at the very least. In the case of Connolly, a true 2nd liner and in the case of Lombardi, a 2nd/3rd 'tweener. Suggesting that Clifford/Lewis would be upgrades is downright laughable. Clifford has what? 23 points in 127 games? Lewis about the same with with 19 points in 123 games. Those aren't 3rd line numbers by any stretch of the imagination.

Would they be cheaper -- sure... but you're ignoring the reason we have those guys on the 3rd line. Connolly is there because we've got Tyler Bozak (who is paid like and probably should be our 3rd line C) playing on the top line. Lombardi was acquired to get Franson, and if there was a team interested in him, I'm sure the Leafs would like to give the spot to Kadri. Armstrong provides a much needed veteran influence on a very young team. You'd have a better chance arguing that they're upgrades over guys like Crabb or Steckel, but wait! Steckel is one of the best faceoff guys in the league, and Joey Crabb has about twice as many points in less NHL games than these 2.

Losing a guy like Kulemin who scored 30 last year or MacArthur who's well on his way to 20 for the second consecutive year to pick up some 4th liners? I don't think so. Want to make us interested in one of those guys? Feel free to take Lombardi, not a guy making $3.25m who scores 20+.



Play his final 2 seasons in the OHL at well over a point per game and 1.5 points per game respectively?

Play his first AHL season at nearly a point per game?
Isn't this the same guy that has 6 pts in 19 games which would add up to a grand total of 26 pts over a full season.

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02-03-2012, 11:12 PM
  #200
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Dreger was Eklund all a long

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