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Top 5 gm in the nhl in past 5 years and why

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Old
02-04-2012, 01:04 PM
  #76
Beleafer4
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Did you?

NHL SCORING LEADERS PLAYOFFS 2007

Daniel Alfredsson Ottawa Senators 20 14 8 22 +4 10
Spezza, Jason Ottawa Senators 20 7 15 22 +5 10
eatley, Danyy Ottawa Senators 20 7 15 22 +4 14
Lidstrom, Nicklas Detroit Red Wings 18 4 14 18 0 6
Getzlaf, Ryan Anaheim Ducks 21 7 10 17 +1 32
Datsyuk, Pave Detroit Red Wings 18 8 8 16 +2 8
Perry, Corey Anaheim Ducks 21 6 9 15 +5 37
Selanne, Teemu Anaheim Ducks 21 5 10 15 +1 10
Pronger, Chris Anaheim Ducks 19 3 12 15 +10 26
Briere, Danny Buffalo Sabres 16 3 12 15 +3 16


NHL GOALIE LEADERS PLAYOFFS 2007

Marty Turco Dallas Stars 7 3 4 229 11 1.30 509:13 .952 3
Luongo, Roberto Vancouver Canucks 12 5 7 427 25 1.77 847:26 .941 0
Kiprusoff, Miikka Calgary Flames 6 2 4 255 18 2.81 383:35 .929 0
undqvist, Henrik New York Rangers 10 6 4 291 22 2.07 637:25 .924 1
Backstrom, Niklas Minnesota Wild 5 1 4 145 11 2.22 296:39 .924 0
Hasek, Dominik Detroit Red Wings 18 10 8 444 34 1.79 1,139:49 .923 2
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien Giguere Anaheim Ducks 18 13 4 451 35 1.97 1,067:04 .922

Bolded are those players that Burke inherited that had no bearing on their cup win.
Well you got me there Ill admit.


However, out of

Perry
Getzlaf
Giguere
Pronger
Niedermayer
Selanne
Beauchimen

4 were acquired by burke. Disregardong his cup win while crediting guys like shero, chiarelli, Bowman shows evident bias.

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02-04-2012, 01:06 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Can we add

Getzlaf, Perry, JS Giguere, Pahlsson, R. Niedermayer,A. MacDonald, C.Kunitz
Yes we can. Funny how like the other "respected top 5 GMs", burke can do wonders when he inherits a great core.

Still dont understand why he is seperated from the rest of the pack in your eyes.

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02-04-2012, 01:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
Well you got me there Ill admit.


However, out of

Perry
Getzlaf
Giguere
Pronger
Niedermayer
Selanne
Beauchimen

4 were acquired by burke. Disregardong his cup win while crediting guys like shero, chiarelli, Bowman shows evident bias.
On the contrary...If you read the thread....a poster was discrediting Chiarelli because he inherited Tim Thomas. I proved that Brian Burke also inherited integral parts of his Cup winning team that played huge roles in the Cup win. Unless you are with the organization for 30 years and every single player in the system is because you drafted, traded for or signed them then you will have pieces that you inherited. I dont know who you think is showing evident bias here but its not me. I also give credit for being a good GM...just not top 5 in the last 5 years. Thats all.

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02-04-2012, 01:13 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
On the contrary...If you read the thread....a poster was discrediting Chiarelli because he inherited Tim Thomas. I proved that Brian Burke also inherited integral parts of his Cup winning team that played huge roles in the Cup win. Unless you are with the organization for 30 years and every single player in the system is because you drafted, traded for or signed them then you will have pieces that you inherited. I dont know who you think is showing evident bias here but its not me. I also give credit for being a good GM...just not top 5 in the last 5 years. Thats all.
If thats the case, then I came in at a wrong time, misinterpreted your post and I apologize.

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02-04-2012, 01:14 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
If thats the case, then I came in at a wrong time, misinterpreted your post and I apologize.
No worries. Happens all the time..unless you get in at the beginning of the discussion then often things can be taken out of context.

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02-04-2012, 01:15 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Brian Burke inherited Conn Smythe winner, John-Sebastien Giguere and a rookie named Ilya Bryzgalov. Although JSG didn't win the Conn Smythe in the Cup year (he actually won it in a losing effort in 2003-04)...he still posted the following numbers and was a strong consideration for the Conn Smythe in their Cup year as well...

JSG

Jean-Sebastien Giguere 1067MIN 18GP 13W 4L 35GA 1.97GAA 451SA 416SV .922%

Burke also inherited, Perry, Getzlaf, Pahlsson, Rob Neidermayer which allowed him to sign Scott, Andy MacDonald, Chris Kunitz.
Thomas was the clear MVP of that team, winning the Vezina and Conn Smythe. And if Thomas didn't win the Smythe it likely would have gone to Bergeron or Krejci, two other players in the Bruins organization.

Even though Giguere didn't win either of these things, he was still great in the playoffs, and yes Burke was fortunate to have him, but here's the difference. Burke recognized what he had. He wasn't shopping Giguere in the offseason before their championship season thinking Bryzgalov could be the number 1 goalie.

I'm not disputing that Burke was pretty fortunate in Anaheim that allowed him to win the Stanley Cup in 2 seasons. Most GM's do inherit pieces to work with. I was responding to a post that suggested Chiarelli was more instrumental in building the Bruins.

As I said, I think Chiarelli is a fine GM and I wouldn't be upset if he was GM of the Leafs, but I don't think he is THAT good as many suggest. He is being regarding as arguably the best GM in the league for having a brilliant plan and executing it so brilliantly, turning a horrible team into a champion in only 5 years.

I pointed out Thomas as one of the reasons, among others, that I dispute this, and the bigger issue I have is when his tenure in Boston is used to diminish Burke's work in Toronto because Burke hasn't been as successful as quickly as Chiarelli has been.

But go ahead and call my post asinine or whatever you want to reaffirm that your lack of an argument.

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02-04-2012, 01:23 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
On the contrary...If you read the thread....a poster was discrediting Chiarelli because he inherited Tim Thomas. I proved that Brian Burke also inherited integral parts of his Cup winning team that played huge roles in the Cup win. Unless you are with the organization for 30 years and every single player in the system is because you drafted, traded for or signed them then you will have pieces that you inherited. I dont know who you think is showing evident bias here but its not me. I also give credit for being a good GM...just not top 5 in the last 5 years. Thats all.
Inherited players Perry and Getzlaf finished 1 & 2 in Ducks playoff scoring during their Cup victory.

Burke still deserves credit for the win, but was assisted greatly in the process by whom he inherited.

The thing to consider about that Anaheim Cup win that is most discerning for me, is that it was a 1 and done assembled team as the players Burke acquired were short-term players and the remnants today are still those prominent players Perry and Getzlaf that he inherited.

While a Cup in Toronto would be outstanding without question, a plan of a 1 and done attempt to accomplish it without that ultimate final success is something I hope Burke does not have in store for Leaf Nation as he seems to be following his Anaheim playbook.

Burke traded 2 X 1st round picks + 2 X former 1st round picks (Lupul and Smid) + 2nd for Chris Pronger to put the Ducks over the top that year.. So are we about to see another such transaction in the near future to say acquire Weber, Suter or another top line forward at that type of expense ?


Last edited by Mess: 02-04-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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02-04-2012, 01:28 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SundinOurOnlyChance View Post
GM's are paid to win the Stanley Cup, doesn't matter how much hey improve until they win the cup. Would you rather have a team win the cup one year and barely make it into the playoffs the next 5 years, or a team that doesn't win the Cup but they are the best team in the regular season?

The GM's that won the cup were the best GM's of the years, simple as that, they could of made bad moves, they could of made no moves, but who cares they won.
So basically, they could have went without a GM for a year and somehow he'd still have been named "GM of the Year". Great.

"This year, the Chicago Blackhawks would like to honour this broom and mop for their magnificent job leading our club to the holy grail"!!!


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02-04-2012, 01:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Inherited players Perry and Getzlaf finished 1 & 2 in Ducks playoff scoring during their Cup victory.

Burke still deserves credit for the win, but was assisted greatly in the process by whom he inherited.

The thing to consider about that Anaheim Cup win that is most discerning for me, is that it was a 1 and done assembled team as the players Burke acquired were short-term players and the remnants today are still those prominent players Perry and Getzlaf that he inherited.

While a Cup in Toronto would be outstanding without question, a plan of a 1 and done attempt to accomplish it without that ultimate final success is something I hope Burke does not have in store for Leaf Nation as he seems to be following his Anaheim playbook.
The fact that he's building one of the youngest teams in hockey doesn't suggest to you that he's planning long term?

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02-04-2012, 01:31 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SundinOurOnlyChance View Post
The GM's of the last five teams that won the cup.
I don't think that could be argued at all since that's what the name of the game is to win the cup. Thread should be closed you nailed it

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02-04-2012, 01:34 PM
  #86
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I don't think that could be argued at all since that's what the name of the game is to win the cup. Thread should be closed you nailed it
Might not be not untrue.

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02-04-2012, 01:38 PM
  #87
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I'm a fan of Burke, but there's no way he should be on anyone's list - hasn't made the playoffs.

Chiro, Chierelli, Holland deserve to be there.

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02-04-2012, 01:38 PM
  #88
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Chiarelli traded away Phil Kessel when he wanted too much money and then traded for Nathan Horton, allocating a portion of his salary to Bruins cap money to him instead as a replacement. Horton ($4 mil) + Sequin ($900k) = < Kessel @ $5.3 mil Cap.

Nathan Horton scored 8 goals and 17 points in last years playoffs, before getting knock out of action due to injury.. Included in Horton's playoff accomplishments included 3 game winning goals including 2 series winning goals. In series #1 (Montreal) GWG in OT in game 7, and series #3 (TB) GWG and only goal in game #7 in a 1-0 Boston win to advance to the Cup finals.

Therefore Horton the player Chiarelli acquired scored 2 series winning goals of the 4 rounds the Bruins won, on their way to the Stanley Cup. I would hardly call that doing nothing, as that single trade alone had immense impact on the Bruins Stanley Cup victory and he couldn't have made a more successful trade to secure the victory !!!

If Burke acquired a player that resulted in 2 series winning GWG and a Stanley Cup victory, Burke would likely be given the keys to the city in Toronto. When another GM does that he is viewed as "doing nothing".
You are the only one who called it "doing nothing". If you are referring to the GM who made zero moves, that would be Bowman. Every single player on his roster was there when he took over. What I said about Chiarelli was that every single piece of his core Cup winning team save possibly Horton (which I clearly said) was inherited.

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02-04-2012, 01:49 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Inherited players Perry and Getzlaf finished 1 & 2 in Ducks playoff scoring during their Cup victory.

Burke still deserves credit for the win, but was assisted greatly in the process by whom he inherited.

The thing to consider about that Anaheim Cup win that is most discerning for me, is that it was a 1 and done assembled team as the players Burke acquired were short-term players and the remnants today are still those prominent players Perry and Getzlaf that he inherited.

While a Cup in Toronto would be outstanding without question, a plan of a 1 and done attempt to accomplish it without that ultimate final success is something I hope Burke does not have in store for Leaf Nation as he seems to be following his Anaheim playbook.

Burke traded 2 X 1st round picks + 2 X former 1st round picks (Lupul and Smid) + 2nd for Chris Pronger to put the Ducks over the top that year.. So are we about to see another such transaction in the near future to say acquire Weber, Suter or another top line forward at that type of expense ?
You don't have to worry Vancouver says hello further more Anaheim went on to trade Pronger and get assets back see how it works out in the end when you trade prospects, picks and youth for players that aren't on there last leg... Here's another goody Burke drafted Gardiner he would look good in Anaheim's future if Burke didn't steal him away for a player they let walk in UFA.

Seems to me Burke knows exactly what he's doing problem is it's not like the popular way of doing things waiting for prospects to develop through the draft where we could all see the progression, with Burke we're in the dark cause it's not just limited to the draft in how he builds his teams to where the pieces come from. Burke is capable of doing some out of nowhere stuff he could trade for Getzlaf all we know (Pronger trade) or walk in the draft and draft Yakupov (Did it twice with the Sedin twins and moving up to draft Pronger). We just don't know what he'll do but make no mistake his emo is to win the cup and will put a contender together here in Leaf land in due time

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02-04-2012, 01:50 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Did you?

NHL SCORING LEADERS PLAYOFFS 2007

Daniel Alfredsson Ottawa Senators 20 14 8 22 +4 10
Spezza, Jason Ottawa Senators 20 7 15 22 +5 10
eatley, Danyy Ottawa Senators 20 7 15 22 +4 14
Lidstrom, Nicklas Detroit Red Wings 18 4 14 18 0 6
Getzlaf, Ryan Anaheim Ducks 21 7 10 17 +1 32
Datsyuk, Pave Detroit Red Wings 18 8 8 16 +2 8
Perry, Corey Anaheim Ducks 21 6 9 15 +5 37
Selanne, Teemu Anaheim Ducks 21 5 10 15 +1 10
Pronger, Chris Anaheim Ducks 19 3 12 15 +10 26
Briere, Danny Buffalo Sabres 16 3 12 15 +3 16


NHL GOALIE LEADERS PLAYOFFS 2007

Marty Turco Dallas Stars 7 3 4 229 11 1.30 509:13 .952 3
Luongo, Roberto Vancouver Canucks 12 5 7 427 25 1.77 847:26 .941 0
Kiprusoff, Miikka Calgary Flames 6 2 4 255 18 2.81 383:35 .929 0
undqvist, Henrik New York Rangers 10 6 4 291 22 2.07 637:25 .924 1
Backstrom, Niklas Minnesota Wild 5 1 4 145 11 2.22 296:39 .924 0
Hasek, Dominik Detroit Red Wings 18 10 8 444 34 1.79 1,139:49 .923 2
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien Giguere Anaheim Ducks 18 13 4 451 35 1.97 1,067:04 .922

Bolded are those players that Burke inherited that had no bearing on their cup win.
NHL TOI/GP LEADERS PLAYOFFS 2007

1 Sergei Zubov DAL D 30:50
2 Nicklas Lidstrom DET D 30:37
3 Francois Beauchemin ANA D 30:33
4 Chris Pronger ANA D 30:11
5 Scott Niedermayer ANA D 29:50


NHL SA/GP LEADERS PLAYOFFS 2007

1 DETROIT 24.7
2 OTTAWA 25.2
3 ANAHEIM 27.6
4 TAMPA BAY 28.2
5 MINNESOTA 29.2
6 NY RANGERS 29.2
7 SAN JOSE 29.5
8 PITTSBURGH 30.2
9 NEW JERSEY 30.3
10 BUFFALO 30.6
11 NY ISLANDERS 32.4
12 NASHVILLE 32.6
13 DALLAS 33
14 ATLANTA 35.8
15 VANCOUVER 36.5
16 CALGARY 42.5

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02-04-2012, 02:03 PM
  #91
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Really? Lucic, Marchand, Krejci, Bergeron, Chara and Thomas were all in place BEFORE Chiarelli walked through the door. That's the entire core of his Cup winning team, save maybe Horton.
You should fact-check. Chiarelli was named GM in May, 2006. Chara, Lucic, and Marchand were all added in June and July 06. All of Lucic, Marchand, and Krejci's pro development was during Chiarelli's tenure. Chiarelli was also responsible for nabbing Rask, and adding Recchi and Seidenberg. All of those guys contributed to Boston's success last year. The Boston team was Chiarelli's.

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02-04-2012, 02:04 PM
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it's trendy on HFboards to not include Burke on a top-5 GM list

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02-04-2012, 02:15 PM
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Yay Burke for winning the cup in Anaheim.

Leaf fans should be more concerned about his signing 7th Dmen and 3rd line centers to 4M+ contracts.

I wouldn't put Burke in the top 20. He is a loudmouth and not much else.

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02-04-2012, 02:29 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Yay Burke for winning the cup in Anaheim.

Leaf fans should be more concerned about his signing 7th Dmen and 3rd line centers to 4M+ contracts.

I wouldn't put Burke in the top 20. He is a loudmouth and not much else.
I am curious to see the list the twenty you would put before him.

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02-04-2012, 02:33 PM
  #95
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You should fact-check. Chiarelli was named GM in May, 2006. Chara, Lucic, and Marchand were all added in June and July 06. All of Lucic, Marchand, and Krejci's pro development was during Chiarelli's tenure. Chiarelli was also responsible for nabbing Rask, and adding Recchi and Seidenberg. All of those guys contributed to Boston's success last year. The Boston team was Chiarelli's.
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Instead, Chiarelli's used a strategy that relied mostly on making deals, taking over in late summer of 2006 after interim GM Jeff Gorton had already signed a couple big free agents in captain Zdeno Chara and Savard.

In Gorton's only draft, the Bruins took Phil Kessel in the first round, Milan Lucic in the second and Marchand in the third. He also traded for Tuukka Rask. (Kessel was later swapped for the pick that became Seguin when his salary demands were deemed too high.)
LINK

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02-04-2012, 02:38 PM
  #96
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Yay Burke for winning the cup in Anaheim.

Leaf fans should be more concerned about his signing 7th Dmen and 3rd line centers to 4M+ contracts.

I wouldn't put Burke in the top 20. He is a loudmouth and not much else.
Perhaps you might have forgotten that time changes. When he brought on Komisarek he was thought to be an easy top 4 player and he was given just above market value in the UFA market. Connolly was also thought to replace Bozak on the first line but it didn't work out as planned. Thankfully, both mistakes will be off the books in a year and a half and we didn't have to give up assets for them.

The players he gave assets for:
Phil Kessel
Mike Brown
Joffrey Lupul
Cody Franson
John Michael Liles
Dion Phaneuf
Matthew Lombardi
Jake Gardiner

You could make a case for any number of GMs who are forced to coax players into their organization by overpaying in the UFA market and thankfully enough Burke hasn't relied on it too heavily.

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02-04-2012, 02:43 PM
  #97
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Now thats an underrated GM right there. He basically acquired half of their core as an interm!! That is just ridiculous! Too bad NY signed him, we should have acquired him. This coincides with how well managed the NY rangers and their scouting have been as of late. Darn.

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02-04-2012, 02:48 PM
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it's trendy on HFboards to not include Burke on a top-5 GM list
Burke's Leafs record;

2008-09 season - missed playoffs (finished 7th from bottom)
2009-10 season - missed playoffs (finished 29th overall, 2nd from bottom)
2010-11 season - missed playoffs (finished 9th from bottom)
2011-12 season - in progress

I think that 3 consecutive bottom 10 finishes overall is the trend responsible.

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02-04-2012, 02:50 PM
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Burke inherited Grabovski, Kulemin, Schenn, Gunnarsson, Frattin, Reimer etc when he took the Leafs job and those players have all contributed to the current teams success this year.
True, but to his credit he did not trade away these young assets like a lot of past Leafs GMs would have.

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"Full cupboard of prospects" is subjective, because all non NHL prospects have zero effect on the current teams wins and losses in the standings, and no one can tell what may become of them with any certainty in the future. Only when prospects actually contribute to the parent NHL results like the aforementioned inherited ones above, do they really count and matter.
You're splitting hairs. You used to comment all the time about how empty the Leafs prospect cupboard was. Well... apart from JEREMY TIME of course.

I don't think it warrants much conversation to easily distinguish from the quality of prospects we have now compared to before. It's not even comparable. Robbie Earl was once viewed as a top prospect here.

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The net results of Burke's 3 year entry drafts NHL impact to date is Nazem Kadri 49 NHL games and 18 points, and so its still early to be handing out praise here for cupboard restocking. Prospects acquired via trade Gardiner (44 games 15 points), Colborne (9 games 4 points), Aulie (15 games 1 point). With 3 of those 4 youngsters playing in the AHL currently.
Go on... the list doesn't stop there. You have to look at their stats in the AHL and junior as well, that's how you decide how the cupboard looks. They're "prospects" for a reason Mess, judging them on the first 1% of their careers is hardly fair. But let's be honest with each other, a fair a legitimate conversation isn't the goal here, is it?

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A good NHL GM would get credit for filling his NHL team and not his AHL team with players as the Leafs only benefit from the NHL ones. If and when Burke's so called prospects drafted or otherwise become successful regularly contributing NHLers to a winning Leafs teams is the time Burke will get the credit he deserves for that distinction but not before. Otherwise all 30 NHL teams have prospects in the cupboard.
Sure, if the season were to finish today the Leafs would finish higher in the standings than they ever have since the days of Pat Quinn as the GM. The Leafs would also do it by being the 2nd youngest team in the league.

Twist it around all you want, that's a good result. You wanted a long-term rebuild, isn't this part of the progression?

Quote:
While he continues to build the team through UFA and trade, then he gets judged on his Kessel, Phaneuf, Komisarek, Connolly transactions etc based on the Teams performance.
I prefer not to cherry pick details and look at the totality of his work.

Burke has relied on trade and free agency, but not in the irresponsible and short-sighted ways of the past Maple Leafs management teams. He acquires young assets for the most part, and his dips into more experienced players have done well by and large (Komisarek being the exception whereas Liles/Connolly were good signings). Where would this team be this season without:

Dion Phaneuf
Phil Kessel
Joffrey Lupul
Jonas Gustavsson
John-Michael Liles
Tyler Bozak
Clarke MacArthur
Tim Connolly
Jake Gardiner
Mike Brown
Joey Crabb

And in the minors/juniors who are looking good:

Nazem Kadri
Joe Colborne
Keith Aulie
Korbinian Holzer
Jesse Blacker
Marcel Mueller
Ben Scrivens
Mark Owuya
Greg McKegg
Josh Leivo
Tyler Biggs
Stuart Percy
Brad Ross

I could go on. The Leafs haven't had so much major NHL contributors at such a youngage for as long as I can remember. Not to mention the quality of prospects in the AHL (I watched them in St. John's for years... including JEREMY TIME).

While the mission is not yet completed, it's hard not to love what Brian Burke has done with this team.

Assuming one's a Leaf fan, that is.

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02-04-2012, 02:57 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke's Leafs record;

2008-09 season - missed playoffs (finished 7th from bottom)
2009-10 season - missed playoffs (finished 29th overall, 2nd from bottom)
2010-11 season - missed playoffs (finished 9th from bottom)
2011-12 season - in progress

I think that 3 consecutive bottom 10 finishes overall is the trend responsible.
There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids" and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..


Newfie John is offline   Reply With Quote
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