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Tidbits from JD-Sam-Renney townhall last night at MSG...

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Old
10-21-2004, 09:47 PM
  #26
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Thanks to those who reported on the townhall meeting. Its like rain in the desert to actually here some hockey talk from MSG. I can't believe everything Renney said but I wouldn't have expected to. The one thing that really makes me roll my eyes a bit is how high they are on so many of the players they just acquired (either through the draft or trade). Let me qualify that by saying that I think Renney is genuine about most of what he had to say about the prospects and it makes sense. If the Rangers weren't high on those players, they wouldn't have acquired them. However, there is no way all those guys are going to make the NHL. This organization did not all of a sudden become the Grand Wizards of scouting.

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10-21-2004, 09:54 PM
  #27
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No but speaking from PR experience you have to be very careful what you say and don't say. If you say something realistic {like 30% will make it} and than somehow forget to say a name in that conversation, you can find yourself in trouble.

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10-21-2004, 10:35 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
also on St. Louis, in regards to player development, forgot what year but a long time ago he was the only nondrafted player to participate (this may be a little off) in the wjc or wc try outs, renney told the calgary scout or gm they have to sign this kid because he was just so skilled, at the time he was 5'7 156 pounds - now he's 5'7 196 lbs
That guy Renney spoke to was Al Coates. And I heard that it was not Renney, but Nick Polano who "discovered" Martin playing for the Cleveland Lumberjacks.

The question to ask Maloney is why they did not pick up St. Louis when he was UFA in the summer of 2000. Coates was very high on Martin. And Coates was just hired by Slats. There was a five-day window in which NYR could have secured St. Louis before Tampa did.

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10-21-2004, 10:47 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg
Renny sees them being competitive in 3 years? In that case, let the lockout last 3 years!!!!

Very surprised to hear what they said on Dolan. If that is 100% true, than I must stand corrected on the whole "It's Sather's fault....no It's Dolan's fault" issue.
What did you expect them to say he signs their checks.

I was there tonight and I found it interesting how much Maloney rips on the veteran players that underachieve. Being a former Rangers I think Renney understands what it means to be a Ranger and what it means to play in NY a lot better than some others do (Sather). I still stand by my opinion that Sather remains totally disconnected with the city and the fans, especially the way Renney and Maloney talk about him. Not that Maloney is a genius but I for one would feel much more comfortable about this if he was the GM.

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10-21-2004, 10:59 PM
  #30
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I think you meant Maloney knows what it is like to be a former Ranger. Having said that, Sather is a former Ranger too.

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10-21-2004, 11:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
What did you expect them to say he signs their checks.

I was there tonight and I found it interesting how much Maloney rips on the veteran players that underachieve. Being a former Rangers I think Renney understands what it means to be a Ranger and what it means to play in NY a lot better than some others do (Sather). I still stand by my opinion that Sather remains totally disconnected with the city and the fans, especially the way Renney and Maloney talk about him. Not that Maloney is a genius but I for one would feel much more comfortable about this if he was the GM.
Whether or not Dolan was calling the shots has nothing to do with whether or not Sather is disconnected from the city and Ranger fans (which by the way I agree with you--Sather does seem totally tone deaf when it comes to understanding NYC and what the fans want). Sather can be blamed for both being disconnected and in charge of the mess he created as far as I'm concerned.

I guess the only postive I can take out of some of the comments about Sather and his role in building the future is that he seems to have recognized that he is not the best judge of prospective talent in young players and is leaving the job to others like Renney and Maloney. However, Sather is still going to be the one who decides on who to fill out the roster with, come the end of the lockout. And regardless of how much talk there is of the talent waiting in the wings (many of whom are still in Europe and cannot come over if there is a season), there will be more signings of (younger) veteran players.

As I've said before, we are still at the beginning of the road to rebuilding. And until Sather follows through for more than a couple of months (namely a couple of years), I will remain skeptical of his abilities to get this franchise out of the hole he so succesfully dug during his tenure here.

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Old
10-21-2004, 11:19 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I think you'd see players cut before that happened.
But wouldn't cutting the lower-end guys just mean that our higher-end guys would be playing 4th line minutes in Hartford. I mean if you cut Hamilton to make room for Prucha, it still means a guy like Murray or Hollweg has to get bumped down.

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10-21-2004, 11:20 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
What did you expect them to say he signs their checks.

I was there tonight and I found it interesting how much Maloney rips on the veteran players that underachieve. Being a former Rangers I think Renney understands what it means to be a Ranger and what it means to play in NY a lot better than some others do (Sather). I still stand by my opinion that Sather remains totally disconnected with the city and the fans, especially the way Renney and Maloney talk about him. Not that Maloney is a genius but I for one would feel much more comfortable about this if he was the GM.
damn Maloney was there? I was wondering why he did not show up last night, could you give us what was said tonight? specially out of Maloney's mouth

also it's funny you say that about checks and all, Same and JD made it clear that they were not under that type of instruction (someone asked about Marv and that situation), JD said their checks are signed by MSG not NYR

btw - Sather is a former Ranger another tidbit mentioned last night

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10-22-2004, 12:33 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
oh and JD commented on the lockout

2 days ago he thought there was no way there would be a season however now both sides are starting to get impatient, players and owners want to play, whats going on now is back channels, they are starting to get the ball rolling again - said he feels there will be another season again, said once the basic plan is set it will most likely take 3 weeks till the season begins

he said it was all GUT feeling but he felt confident about it from what he knew
Pray to GOD. Oh man I would be so happy I'd cry.

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10-22-2004, 02:46 AM
  #35
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Renney's a former Ranger?

I did not know that, and I thought Maloney, a former Ranger, was missing from the forum. Yeah, Sather played defense for a couple seasons in the early 70s. I don't think he was very good. Finally, MSG, NY Rangers...it's all the same thing - MSG owns the Rangers, Knicks, Radio City, MSG Network, among other things.

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10-22-2004, 09:38 AM
  #36
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I see In the Hall gave a good recap on the stuff I didn't get a chance to post yesterday.

Just to follow up..

-was happy to hear how he felt Lundquist was a lock to be a NHLer as well as him feeling Bruce Graham was also going to be an NHL player.Hopefully he's right on both counts.

my opinion is that Lundquist has a chance to become a solid #1 and if Graham pans out and can develop a little bit more of an edge to his game adding a 6'5 center, our weakest position amoung prospects, would be huge.

-Korpikinski--was also high on him and said it was all about being tenacious with the guy.Great foot speed and skating ability and a very good work ethtic to go along with some nice skills is pretty much how he summed Lauri up.Said he be great on the forecheck and create lots of turnovers and while not a big guy he finishes his checks.

--Said Montoya was "far and away" the best player available at #6.

-As In the Hall mentioned was very high on Bahensky.Said he was the top rookie in the WHL and really thinks the kid is a player.

-On Umberger, all three guys were really down on him.Renney said he could w/o a doubt say that this wasn't a kid they wanted in here with where the team is trying to go and what type of players they want here.Said all his Hartford teamates didn't like him.

--The only guys I wanted to hear about that weren't commented on were Pock and Balej.Balej was mentioned in passing but no in depth thoughts on him or his future.

--As In the Hall said, Renney was very cool and is w/o a very knowledgable hockey guy.Said he learned a ton from his coaching experience in Vancouver where he openly admitted he clashed with Mogilny and then went on to say he even clashed w/Bure and Mess over Toom trying to make players out of 34rd/4th liners like Odjick or Mommesso and the big three being pissed that it hurt their ice time.

-Somebody compares Dawes to Mark Recchi and Tom felt it was a very good comparison in that they are both short but both had strenght on their skates and were very difficult to take off the puck.

--When commenting on Slats not being fully into a rebuild at first actually said "glen needed a little **** kicking" for him to fully commit.As Hall said Tom said Glen also got "caught up in the wheel".

--Brought up Ruutu and where they had him him ranked at 9 w/Blackie at 6 and Fedor at 10.Everyone was pretty high on Ruutu and alot of people here wanted him including myself bigtime but the NYR's obviously had Dan trageted and looking like they'd get him at 10 they probrably never entertained moving up to take a Ruutu which obviously was a big mistake b/c this kid would've accelerated our rebuilding greatly and given us a true stud forward who will be a superstar in 2 yrs time.

Not use crying about it now but I just remember I along with alot of others were hoping this would've been our pick based on all the scouting reports on Ruutu. :mad:

--bottom line is it was a very cool experience and one diehard fans like most here should take advantage of if given the chance.

It's rare to get to sit down in such a situation w/a head coach and a guy like JD.Some fluff as would be expected but more candid then most would think.

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10-22-2004, 05:26 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I think you meant Maloney knows what it is like to be a former Ranger. Having said that, Sather is a former Ranger too.
Yes I meant Maloney. And anyway, Sather was a Ranger like Stephane Quintal was a Ranger. He'll be remembered for what he did elsewhere. On the other hand, Maloney is what I would call a "real" Ranger. He played most of his career here and had success in NY.

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10-22-2004, 06:07 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by in the hall
damn Maloney was there? I was wondering why he did not show up last night, could you give us what was said tonight? specially out of Maloney's mouth

also it's funny you say that about checks and all, Same and JD made it clear that they were not under that type of instruction (someone asked about Marv and that situation), JD said their checks are signed by MSG not NYR

btw - Sather is a former Ranger another tidbit mentioned last night
Yes Maloney was there, along with Renney, and Kenny Albert ran the thing. I guess one night gets Sam and JD and the other gets Maloney? I dunno.

My point about the checks was just that, they are signed by MSG, which means no one up there, personel or not, is going to talk bad about anything Dolan is doing.

Anyway, the reason I think that Maloney wouldn't make a bad GM was because of the way he worked the crowd. He got a lot of laughs and seemed to connect with the fans, meanwhile I'm sure if Sather was up there he would get booed right out of the place. At one point Maloney was answering a question and the name Alex Kovalev came out of his mouth, and he stops in the middle of his answer and says "kovalev, what ever happened to that guy?" When asked about a rumour that Kasper might walk away from the rest of his contract and play in Europe for the rest of his career Maloney said "Kasper has 18 million reasons to stay. Only place he'll be walking is to Chase Manhattan every week." I know GM's aren't going to come out and say things like that, but I do think that Maloney has the right personality to be a GM in this city.

Maloney said that the most important thing as far as building a team is goaltending. He said you can't win in this league without good/great goaltending, not matter who else you have on your team. He said that Montoya was just too valuable a goalie to pass up in the draft, which is why they took him eventhough they already had 2 solid goalie prospects. He compared his philosophy on getting goalies to what the Devils did in the late 80's when they drafted Burke, Broduer etc. You get as many solid ones as you can and when one becomes a start for your club, you can trade the other ones off (Devs traded Burke for Holik). Maloney even said that it's possible that in a couple years we will have the best young goaltending in the league, no one will even be close to us.

He said that the type of players they're looking for are players with good character and good speed. Those seem to be the two big things, and Kovalev's name came up numerous times while talking about past teams and what they aren't looking for. He said that Korpikoski fit exactly into the mold of the player they want, even more than Ovechkin. He said Korpikoski was 5th on their list, obviously they would have taken Ovechkin first overall, but in terms of speed, character, work ethic etc Korpikoski was the best in the draft.

Supposedly Maloney developed some of these opinions by examining the "final four" teams for each of the last 10 years. He said the two constants were great goaltending and team speed, which are now the top priorities for the Rangers (hence the willingness to stockpile goaltending, no matter what).

He said that Marty St. Louis proved to everyone that size isn't as important as it seems. He has speed, talent and works hard, which seem to be the only important things as far as the Rangers are concerned. He noted that the Devils have plenty of smaller players. He named Prucha and Billy Ryan as smaller guys who could make it, and even noted that Jessiman has improved his skating and isn't just a big power forward who can't move.

Maloney and Renney both agreed that the organization hasn't had much contact with Messier at all.

Maloney said that whenever the season resumes, the open spots will be determined through competition and what the players do in Hartford. Didn't seem like they were considering bringing in too many more free agents to fill spots.

Said there's a possibility that the Pack might play a game or two in the Garden this year, probably in December.

Maloney said that although it was hard to trade Leetch, he was their number 1 priority. He had the most value and they were expecting some sort of a lockout. The way he talked about it, it seems like there is a possibility Leetch might come back.

Maloney said that the word on the entry draft if there isn't a season at all, is that there won't be one. Guess that means all the 05's would get pushed back to 06 and there would be one super-draft. Obviously not final, but just an idea that the league has. But if he said it, it must be the best option if it were to get to that point.

Also, if there isn't a season, he said that all contracts would lost a year. So a player in the last year of his contract right now will be a free agent next summer.

Those are some of the things that stood out from Maloney, he did most of the talking about this stuff. Renney talked mostly about the coaching aspect.

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10-22-2004, 07:03 PM
  #39
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Thanks for the updates guys.

Any talk about Tom Poti? Do they still see him as being part of the Rangers future or have they finally realized that this is probably his last chance to blossom?

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10-23-2004, 01:14 AM
  #40
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The talk about Umberger and his team mates...

No wonder he got his face beat in.

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10-23-2004, 02:01 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
they were very honest, Renney even said at one point it may sound as if he's blowing smoke up Sather's ass when commentating on him but he was being honest and JD/Sam agreed with his comments

someone asked who can you gaurantee will be in the NHL, Renney said without even hesitating, without a doubt one guy he thinks will be in the NHL one day whether it is on the Rangers or not is Henrik Lundqvist, he said something like that certain people/players (??) will think they have the inside track on the job here in NY, however that is not the case with Lundqvist around.. said Prucha he thinks will make the NHL, giving the run down, he's 5'10 170 lbs but plays tough, is VERY skilled, played on a first line with Jagr and Sykora in the WC.. was very high on Zdenik Bahensky, skilled and tough, his stats were impressive, said he was best rookie in the WHL.. was also high on Dawes, compared him to Recchi

someone asked why they didn't sign Umberger, Renney said he wasn't the type of player they wanted - yes he had skill but JD basically said his teammates did not like him and he rubbed off the wrong way, didn't show any work ethic

they were talking about Sather, all 3 basically acknowledged Slats was not fully into rebuilding from day one, he said something like he just got caught in the wheel or some kind of cycle when coming here with all the big bucks etc and with the cubbard being so bare at the time, it made it very easy to buy a team rather then build it but he was now committed to this rebuilding - someone then commented saying they don't buy Sather being committed to this, Renney then says it really started when Sather basically got his "**** kicked in", he realized it, or something like that, it was a funny comment.. said Sather truly is a genuine guy, a very honest and caring guy but his problem is he doesn't express himself well.. a problem also is he doesn't "share" as he put it, in terms of information, when media for example asks him about something he won't give them any info, he gets put into a bad light from that

someone asked about the best beat writers in NY, Sam and JD tried to say all of them but you can tell Larry Brooks was who they really thought was the best one, both Sam and JD said he's the guy always at practice, his stories while sometimes are over the top (which he also say may be a mandate by his newspaper company - to be over the top) are very good and accurate, also mentioned Bridget Wentworth but did not comment on her, as well as John Delapina, said he clings too much to the past

when asked about how he visioned the team, Renney said he visioned a team being competative 3 years down the road (playoff wise), with speed, hard working, very good defense but most importantly, character.. character was the word of the night

he explained that character is not only the Dale Purrinton type players, character could be a player who is a dynamite shot blocker, someone that gives tremendous work ethic all the time

there may be some holes in this, I am also leaving some out, but basically thats the gist of it

what really stuck with you is how high they were on their prospects as a whole, specially Jessiman (very interesting that they had him penciled in for first line duty), also Kondratiev who they would have had him on a first pair d with Tjutin had there not been a lock out

his team will be all about pressure, a team that is hard working and can force turn overs which in turn create scoring opportunities

sam and jd were typical sam and jd, great classy guys with nothing but info to tell
Renney was very impressive though, smart, funny, cool guy overall

This might've been gone over throughout the thread, but I didn't read the whole thing. Anyway, if Renney thinks that Lundmark is a sure thing for the NHL, then why draft Montoya? Unless, he means Lundmark will make it as a backup only, which it doesn't sound like he means.

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10-23-2004, 02:32 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRGoalieGlut
if Renney thinks that Lundmark is a sure thing for the NHL, then why draft Montoya? Unless, he means Lundmark will make it as a backup only, which it doesn't sound like he means.
I know they all look alike to you. But the name you're reaching for is L-U-N-D-Q-V-I-S-T.

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10-23-2004, 03:39 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent
I know they all look alike to you. But the name you're reaching for is L-U-N-D-Q-V-I-S-T.


Even if you think that Lundqvist is going to make it, you draft the best player available. Even if you're convinced of Lundqvist's talent, you hedge your bets against injuries, unexpected circumstances, or things just not working out. Besides, nothing spurs a prospect's and a goalie's performance like competition.

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10-23-2004, 06:56 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Rodent
I know they all look alike to you. But the name you're reaching for is L-U-N-D-Q-V-I-S-T.
Actually rodent, I've been hearing rumors that after not impressing at center and making little impact in terms of wing, they are now going to convert Lundmark to a goaltender. With Allaire in the fold now, it's believed he can turn pretty much any of the prospects into a top notch goaltender

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10-23-2004, 10:06 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
Thanks for the updates guys.

Any talk about Tom Poti? Do they still see him as being part of the Rangers future or have they finally realized that this is probably his last chance to blossom?
Yea, the last question of the night was actually about him. Maloney said that like a lot of others, Poti just had a bad year. He said that Poti is a guy who needs to play with a solid defenseman next to him so he can be free to move the puck and what not. He said Poti and Leetch were great on the PP, but for most of the season Kovalev was getting time at the point instead of Poti, which hurt Poti both in terms of confidence and production. Seems like Poti is here for the long run.

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10-23-2004, 03:09 PM
  #46
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But wouldn't cutting the lower-end guys just mean that our higher-end guys would be playing 4th line minutes in Hartford. I mean if you cut Hamilton to make room for Prucha, it still means a guy like Murray or Hollweg has to get bumped down.
It depends, not every kid in our system is top 6 forward material. Guys like Murray, Hollweg and others wouldn't really be hurt by getting third line shifts.

I think we need to stop thinking as third line guys as junk guys who couldnt make the top two lines and start thinking of them as guys who serve an actual purpose.

But in the end it's a nonpoint because I can't see the lockout going long enough to cause that problem.

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10-23-2004, 05:59 PM
  #47
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I think we need to stop thinking as third line guys as junk guys who couldnt make the top two lines and start thinking of them as guys who serve an actual purpose.
i definatly agree with that...and the rangers have a lot of prospects who could be real solid 3rd line players and really form a good core for the team

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10-24-2004, 12:20 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Edge
I think we need to stop thinking as third line guys as junk guys who couldnt make the top two lines and start thinking of them as guys who serve an actual purpose.
that is true...alot of our guys that are seen as future 3rd & 4th liners are said to be that because that is the role they are best suited for...and we also need to keep in mind that those type of players are EXTREMELY valuable. you need the top players obviously, but almost every team has a few top players. the thing that often separates those teams and is the difference between being an average club and a championship club are the role players--ie draper, mccarty, madden, etc

one thing that i think leads to confusion is the fact that some people refer to someone as a 3rd liner based on the traditional role of a 3rd liner while others get caught up in the order of lines and assume that the 3rd line rw must be the 3rd best rw on the team.

traditionally teams have set up the top 2 lines as scoring lines, the 3rd line is a checking line and the 4th line is an energy line...so more often then not if someone says that holik should be the 3rd line center, they don't mean that there are 2 centers better but rather that he should be centering the checking line. similarly if someone says that a kid like dom moore will probably be a ahler if he doesn't make the top 2 lines, they are refering to the idea that if he can't make the top 2 lines he doesn't simply drop down to the 3rd line because the 3rd line plays a different role then the 1st 2 lines

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10-24-2004, 09:56 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
Maloney said that the word on the entry draft if there isn't a season at all, is that there won't be one. Guess that means all the 05's would get pushed back to 06 and there would be one super-draft. Obviously not final, but just an idea that the league has. But if he said it, it must be the best option if it were to get to that point.
this would bode well for the Rangers who have three #2 picks. Alot of great players, potential 1st rounders in this or next year, could be pushed into the second round.

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10-24-2004, 10:50 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
Yes Maloney was there, along with Renney, and Kenny Albert ran the thing. I guess one night gets Sam and JD and the other gets Maloney? I dunno.

My point about the checks was just that, they are signed by MSG, which means no one up there, personel or not, is going to talk bad about anything Dolan is doing.

Anyway, the reason I think that Maloney wouldn't make a bad GM was because of the way he worked the crowd. He got a lot of laughs and seemed to connect with the fans, meanwhile I'm sure if Sather was up there he would get booed right out of the place. At one point Maloney was answering a question and the name Alex Kovalev came out of his mouth, and he stops in the middle of his answer and says "kovalev, what ever happened to that guy?" When asked about a rumour that Kasper might walk away from the rest of his contract and play in Europe for the rest of his career Maloney said "Kasper has 18 million reasons to stay. Only place he'll be walking is to Chase Manhattan every week." I know GM's aren't going to come out and say things like that, but I do think that Maloney has the right personality to be a GM in this city.

Maloney said that the most important thing as far as building a team is goaltending. He said you can't win in this league without good/great goaltending, not matter who else you have on your team. He said that Montoya was just too valuable a goalie to pass up in the draft, which is why they took him eventhough they already had 2 solid goalie prospects. He compared his philosophy on getting goalies to what the Devils did in the late 80's when they drafted Burke, Broduer etc. You get as many solid ones as you can and when one becomes a start for your club, you can trade the other ones off (Devs traded Burke for Holik). Maloney even said that it's possible that in a couple years we will have the best young goaltending in the league, no one will even be close to us.

He said that the type of players they're looking for are players with good character and good speed. Those seem to be the two big things, and Kovalev's name came up numerous times while talking about past teams and what they aren't looking for. He said that Korpikoski fit exactly into the mold of the player they want, even more than Ovechkin. He said Korpikoski was 5th on their list, obviously they would have taken Ovechkin first overall, but in terms of speed, character, work ethic etc Korpikoski was the best in the draft.

Supposedly Maloney developed some of these opinions by examining the "final four" teams for each of the last 10 years. He said the two constants were great goaltending and team speed, which are now the top priorities for the Rangers (hence the willingness to stockpile goaltending, no matter what).

He said that Marty St. Louis proved to everyone that size isn't as important as it seems. He has speed, talent and works hard, which seem to be the only important things as far as the Rangers are concerned. He noted that the Devils have plenty of smaller players. He named Prucha and Billy Ryan as smaller guys who could make it, and even noted that Jessiman has improved his skating and isn't just a big power forward who can't move.

Maloney and Renney both agreed that the organization hasn't had much contact with Messier at all.

Maloney said that whenever the season resumes, the open spots will be determined through competition and what the players do in Hartford. Didn't seem like they were considering bringing in too many more free agents to fill spots.

Said there's a possibility that the Pack might play a game or two in the Garden this year, probably in December.

Maloney said that although it was hard to trade Leetch, he was their number 1 priority. He had the most value and they were expecting some sort of a lockout. The way he talked about it, it seems like there is a possibility Leetch might come back.

Maloney said that the word on the entry draft if there isn't a season at all, is that there won't be one. Guess that means all the 05's would get pushed back to 06 and there would be one super-draft. Obviously not final, but just an idea that the league has. But if he said it, it must be the best option if it were to get to that point.

Also, if there isn't a season, he said that all contracts would lost a year. So a player in the last year of his contract right now will be a free agent next summer.

Those are some of the things that stood out from Maloney, he did most of the talking about this stuff. Renney talked mostly about the coaching aspect.

that with no collective bargaining agreement that draft eligible players could sign with whom ever they feel like. I could see a lawsuit being filed by some agent. Restricting their clients ability to earn a living, etc.

On Maloney as a GM, I think too many fans remember him as the Fishstix GM. He was very green and very inexperienced. He was selected because he was cheap.
He has learned from that experience and I think has grown into a quailty front office person. I think between him & Renney the rangers are fairly set for the post Sather era. Someone made the point that Maloney worked the crowd well, that is just Don Maloney being Don Maloney. He was like that as a player.

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