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Will Bryzgalov ever be worth his contract? All Bryz Discussion Here. Part Three

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Old
02-20-2012, 07:30 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post


Did you go through every GDT? If I was giving him crap it's because he was continuing to let in crap goals. I'm not quite sure how you still defend him, though at this point you seem more eager to prove your bizarre anti-Bryz conspiracy.

As I've said before, he has to earn my trust/respect. By that point he hadn't. He didn't do a whole lot afterwards to get it either. He's here to be the clear franchise goaltender, our "solution," and he simply hasn't. He's been an overpaid, inferior version of Biron. It's up to him to prove otherwise, and that's going to take him some time.
what are acceptable stats for this man to have to earn your respect

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02-20-2012, 07:36 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Basically, we're establishing that every goal is either the goaltender's fault or it's not.
Isn't that what it usually is? Glass half empty/half full?

Bryz/Bob needed to stop the shot from going in...

OR

Defense's fault
Forwards' fault
unstoppable shot
Lavy's system at fault
Homer's fault
Snider's fault
Gust of wind...

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02-20-2012, 07:40 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Did you go through every GDT? If I was giving him crap it's because he was continuing to let in crap goals.
Yes. i read the GDTs and this thread. you gave him crap even when he posted the 1.000s

para-phrasing many poster here:

well, that's what hes getting paid to do
he only faced 'x' shots
the 'insert team here' stink
i didn't see the game
but his numbers are 'x'
it's only 1 game


in his 1st 3 games he was 3-0 posting .957 1.000 & .900 & beating the champs on the road.

that earned my trust/respect. he is the #1. signed for 9 years with a complete NMC. this year has been far below his career performance level & obviously the problem is mental. he's been better since the WC statistically [better than Bob], and his issue is confidence.

the Flyers are standing behind & I'm hoping they are right. the ONLY way this can work is if the just play him, leave him in & tell him to shut up. time for him to man up.

*****ing and moaning about Vokoun, money, cap hits, twitter, 24/7, interviews @ the Carnival, booing him or calling a bum will not change a thing.

I'm a Flyers fan, i don't care WHO is in net .. but if they make him #1 and want to let him sink or swim by playing him the rest of the games, i'll support the team & hope he turns it around.

but that's just me .... you can continue to ***** and moan & say how they should have gotten Vokoun .... in the meantime i'm gonna root for my Flyers, even if you don't like it

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02-20-2012, 07:50 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
that's a laugh. he started getting the crap 6 games into the season which included a shutout and 3 wins.
Your argument is he was unrightfully criticized after a .500 start in which he gave up 15 goals in the first 18 periods of the season?

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02-20-2012, 07:55 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Your argument is he was unrightfully criticized after a .500 start
that's when this thread questioning the 9 year deal started.
six games and the crap started.

6.

i'm giving him the entire year, whether you or beef like it or not.

same thing i did w/ Bob last year. Bob deserved the ENTIRE playoff run. maybe we wouldn't be in this mess had they just left him in.
but we ARE.

and i'm giving Bryz the year .... we still have no idea what Bob is, because we yanked him in game 2 of the playoffs.

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02-20-2012, 07:57 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
that's when this thread questioning the 9 year deal started.
six games and the crap started.

6.

i'm giving him the entire year, whether you or beef like it or not.

same thing i did w/ Bob last year. Bob deserved the ENTIRE playoff run. maybe we wouldn't be in this mess had they just left him in.
but we ARE.

and i'm giving Bryz the year .... we still have no idea what Bob is, because we yanked him in game 2 of the playoffs.
No need to be defensive dude.

I was just making sure I understood what you posted.

And I agree with your last paragraph.

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02-20-2012, 08:02 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Yes. i read the GDTs and this thread. you gave him crap even when he posted the 1.000s

para-phrasing many poster here:

well, that's what hes getting paid to do
he only faced 'x' shots
the 'insert team here' stink
i didn't see the game
but his numbers are 'x'
it's only 1 game


in his 1st 3 games he was 3-0 posting .957 1.000 & .900 & beating the champs on the road.

that earned my trust/respect.
he is the #1. signed for 9 years with a complete NMC. this year has been far below his career performance level & obviously the problem is mental. he's been better since the WC statistically [better than Bob], and his issue is confidence.

the Flyers are standing behind & I'm hoping they are right. the ONLY way this can work is if the just play him, leave him in & tell him to shut up. time for him to man up.

*****ing and moaning about Vokoun, money, cap hits, twitter, 24/7, interviews @ the Carnival, booing him or calling a bum will not change a thing.

I'm a Flyers fan, i don't care WHO is in net .. but if they make him #1 and want to let him sink or swim by playing him the rest of the games, i'll support the team & hope he turns it around.

but that's just me .... you can continue to ***** and moan & say how they should have gotten Vokoun .... in the meantime i'm gonna root for my Flyers, even if you don't like it
Wait. He earned your trust after 3 GAMES? Hell, I could find good stats for 3 consecutive games for just about ANY goalie in the league.

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02-20-2012, 08:15 PM
  #708
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So both goalies suck and have identical #'s. Both let in weak goals. And once a game our D allows a back door goal. My fingers are crossed that the 2 new D help with our own end but we need our F to help out as well.

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02-20-2012, 08:33 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Yes. i read the GDTs and this thread. you gave him crap even when he posted the 1.000s

para-phrasing many poster here:

well, that's what hes getting paid to do
he only faced 'x' shots
the 'insert team here' stink
i didn't see the game
but his numbers are 'x'
it's only 1 game


in his 1st 3 games he was 3-0 posting .957 1.000 & .900 & beating the champs on the road.

that earned my trust/respect. he is the #1. signed for 9 years with a complete NMC. this year has been far below his career performance level & obviously the problem is mental. he's been better since the WC statistically [better than Bob], and his issue is confidence.

the Flyers are standing behind & I'm hoping they are right. the ONLY way this can work is if the just play him, leave him in & tell him to shut up. time for him to man up.

*****ing and moaning about Vokoun, money, cap hits, twitter, 24/7, interviews @ the Carnival, booing him or calling a bum will not change a thing.

I'm a Flyers fan, i don't care WHO is in net .. but if they make him #1 and want to let him sink or swim by playing him the rest of the games, i'll support the team & hope he turns it around.

but that's just me .... you can continue to ***** and moan & say how they should have gotten Vokoun .... in the meantime i'm gonna root for my Flyers, even if you don't like it
You are literally rambling. You're making zero sense. None at all. When was the last time anybody here besides you brought up Vokoun?. It has NO RELEVANCE in this discussion, except for your bizarre belief in a conspiracy. Nobody here is *****ing and moaning about getting Vokoun. However, now that you mention it, having the reasonable contract that Vokoun would have gotten compared to the insanity Snider and Co gave Bryz would be much more helpful to the team in the long run, and hell, even now by giving more cap space to work with. The fact that Vokoun has been markedly better than Bryz is another matter, and one that I don't think anybody foresaw. Once again, you thoroughly and completely misunderstand the reasons people wanted Vokoun, because it seems you don't grasp that cap hits are important.

As for cap hits...THAT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT. That is simple reality. It's how the world works....these things are established reality in the NHL: Scoring goals is good, preventing them is good, cap management is important. You can choose to sugarcoat it all you want, but it changes nothing. Bryz has flat out not been worth his cap hit, and has been outperformed by cheaper goalies around the league. This is a Bad Thing.

It's comical at best that you support Bryz blindly because his first 3 games were good. So, in your book, if a player does great in 3 games and then sucks for the following 79, all is well? He can no longer do any wrong?


And finally, I'm not even going to address your last diatribe. What are you even saying? That we aren't Flyers fans because we have the audacity to point out that Bryz has not been very good this season? Sorry, but I'm pretty sure everyone here would be ecstatic for the team AND for Bryz if he suddenly turned it around and played like a real starting goalie instead of a backup. And yet again, you bring up the Vokoun deal. NOBODY IS DOING THAT. You're just pretending we are, or something.

I'm a Flyers fan. I don't care WHO is #1, so long as they actually play like an NHL starting goaltender. This is something Bryz hasn't done. He's been no different from Boucher. Technically, he's been worse. If he turns it around and changes that, then I will be very happy. Until he does that, while he continues to be a cap anchor and overall detriment, I won't be happy.

It will take more than 3 games for Bryz to earn my trust and respect. It will require steady, consistent play, as well as showing he can actually bail his team out. Not this current crap of being great for a game, average for a couple, and awful for a couple....rinse and repeat.

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02-20-2012, 08:34 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Wait. He earned your trust after 3 GAMES? Hell, I could find good stats for 3 consecutive games for just about ANY goalie in the league.

cue Leighton stats from the MTL series..

wohooo


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Old
02-20-2012, 08:37 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
6 games into the season he had also had 3 horrible games, which he followed up with 2 equally bad games. He was supposed to come in and be good. He did that for two games before dropping.

It's not like he lost games where he performed well...he lost games where he was terrible. Also...he hasn't redeemed himself, so I guess those people were on to something, as over the top as it was.
I think you are missing the point. If Giroux had two goals a game in his first three games, then was a -10 with some truly bad play (or whatever the forward equivalent OVER A THREE GAME SPAN would equate to Bryz's performance) over the next three, do you think people would be saying he sucks etc like they did with Bryz?

Regardless of whether they were right or wrong, these overreactions are not new and not uncommon. People are rightfully complaining about Bryz right now. But six games in is ridiculous to say the things that were said at that point. There was essentially an entire season to unfold at that point.

Quote:
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Bryzalov
Haha. I haven't seen this yet. Excellent.

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Old
02-20-2012, 09:03 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think you are missing the point. If Giroux had two goals a game in his first three games, then was a -10 with some truly bad play (or whatever the forward equivalent OVER A THREE GAME SPAN would equate to Bryz's performance) over the next three, do you think people would be saying he sucks etc like they did with Bryz?

Regardless of whether they were right or wrong, these overreactions are not new and not uncommon. People are rightfully complaining about Bryz right now. But six games in is ridiculous to say the things that were said at that point. There was essentially an entire season to unfold at that point.
DING DING DING !!! we have a WINNER !!

exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
As for cap hits...THAT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT. That is simple reality.

It's comical at best that you support Bryz blindly because his first 3 games were good.

And finally, I'm not even going to address your last diatribe. What are you even saying? That we aren't Flyers fans because we have the audacity to point out that Bryz has not been very good this season?

And yet again, you bring up the Vokoun deal. NOBODY IS DOING THAT. You're just pretending we are, or something.

I don't care WHO is #1, so long as they actually play like an NHL starting goaltender. This is something Bryz hasn't done.
Beef, you still gave Bryz crap when he posted the 1.000s.

Bryz HAS played 'like an NHL starting goaltender' in many games this year, but you refuse to give him credit for them [ "This is something Bryz hasn't done."] ... something he hasn't done enough, but he HAS done it.

and his career suggests that he will if they stick with him & everybody gets off his back & he shuts up & mans up.

me posting that i support bryz after 3 games is as silly as you posting he's a bust after 6 games.
or 26 games.

cap hit means ZERO TO ME. they are all pros. all highly paid. i expect good play from them ALL. you can vary your expectations / criticism based on contracts and cap hits & that's fine.
I DO NOT. and don't for 1 second tell me that i'm 'wrong' .. you can claim they are vital to discussion board topics, but that is your opinion.

i'm sure it's important to Homer. but I'm not the GM.

i am not affected by them in forming my expectations / criticism.

and yes, I AM bringing up Vokoun ... ABSOLUTELY .. you claim he would have been the better option .... don't look now, he went to a new team & is struggling, too. i want a goalie to play well, not 'struggle @ a lower cap hit'

and you can be any kind of fan you want. you can complain when Bryz gets a shutout, or point out the 1 negative in a 4-1 win, or complain about cap hits and contracts.

just like I can declare that i'm encouraged by his improvement since the WC [the PITT game aside], disappointed in his comments after the Pitt game, but i'm still giving Bryz the whole year before i decide if this year was a bust or success.

just like i did with Bob last year ... sadly the team went against MY wishes & bailed on him in game 2 of the playoffs.

you can say you aren't taking my approach & that's fine .. we're all entitled to our opinions ... but DO NOT tell me my way is 'wrong'


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Old
02-20-2012, 09:15 PM
  #713
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Vokoun struggling: 2.41 GAA, .921 %...That's a lot better than Bryz. It's not even close. Vokoun doesn't even have the offensive support Bryz has, and the Caps don't have great defensive personnel either.

If I was giving Bryz crap in those games, it's because he was looking shaky/not confident/etc. It's because I was looking for signs he was turning it around, and watching him look "meh" isn't awe-inspiring or convincing. It seems I was correct, too.

As for this:

"Bryz HAS played 'like an NHL goaltender' in many games this year, but you refuse to give him credit for them [ "This is something Bryz hasn't done."] ... something he hasn't done enough, but he HAS done it."

I never said "NHL goaltender," I've said "STARTING NHL goaltender." Anything else is a typo/failure to communicate on my part. There's a huge difference. A starting goaltender bails his team out, plays consistently, and generally isn't outperformed by his backup for most of the season...while his backup isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Bryz is here to be the franchise goaltender, and that's what I want to see out of him. It's the ONLY thing that could justify his contract and cap hit. He has NOT shown me that he looks like a franchise or starting NHL goalie. He's looked like a backup all year. He's looked like Bob, Boucher, Leighton, or Biron from years past. He needs to be good consistently, and give his team a chance to win. He rarely bails them out or steals games. That's happened...what, 3-4 times total? I think it's been two Islanders games, Ottawa, and a Phoenix game. Those aren't even great teams. In the games against good teams when we really need him to perform he mostly hasn't. That is what you'd expect from your backup goalie, not your supposed franchise starting goalie.

Like I said, Cap hit means zero to you because you clearly don't understand how vital the salary cap is. Otherwise it would indeed matter. You claim to care about the team...the salary cap has an enormous impact on the team. Players with big hits who aren't worth it are dead weight and detrimental.

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02-20-2012, 09:26 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Vokoun struggling: 2.41 GAA, .921 %...That's a lot better than Bryz. It's not even close. Vokoun doesn't even have the offensive support Bryz has, and the Caps don't have great defensive personnel either.

If I was giving Bryz crap in those games, it's because he was looking shaky/not confident/etc. It's because I was looking for signs he was turning it around, and watching him look "meh" isn't awe-inspiring or convincing. It seems I was correct, too.

As for this:

"Bryz HAS played 'like an NHL goaltender' in many games this year, but you refuse to give him credit for them [ "This is something Bryz hasn't done."] ... something he hasn't done enough, but he HAS done it."

I never said "NHL goaltender," I've said "STARTING NHL goaltender." Anything else is a typo/failure to communicate on my part. There's a huge difference. A starting goaltender bails his team out, plays consistently, and generally isn't outperformed by his backup for most of the season...while his backup isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Bryz is here to be the franchise goaltender, and that's what I want to see out of him. It's the ONLY thing that could justify his contract and cap hit. He has NOT shown me that he looks like a franchise or starting NHL goalie. He's looked like a backup all year. He's looked like Bob, Boucher, Leighton, or Biron from years past. He needs to be good consistently, and give his team a chance to win. He rarely bails them out or steals games. That's happened...what, 3-4 times total? I think it's been two Islanders games, Ottawa, and a Phoenix game. Those aren't even great teams. In the games against good teams when we really need him to perform he mostly hasn't. That is what you'd expect from your backup goalie, not your supposed franchise starting goalie.

Like I said, Cap hit means zero to you because you clearly don't understand how vital the salary cap is. Otherwise it would indeed matter. You claim to care about the team...the salary cap has an enormous impact on the team. Players with big hits who aren't worth it are dead weight and detrimental.
Beef, why do you even try? He's never going to get it.

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02-20-2012, 09:34 PM
  #715
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Beef, why do you even try? He's never going to get it.
I'm trying to figure out if he's serious or trolling. I think he's serious but I wish he was just trolling.

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02-20-2012, 09:40 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Vokoun struggling: 2.41 GAA, .921 %...That's a lot better than Bryz. It's not even close. Vokoun doesn't even have the offensive support Bryz has, and the Caps don't have great defensive personnel either.

I never said "NHL goaltender," I've said "STARTING NHL goaltender."

Like I said, Cap hit means zero to you because you clearly don't understand how vital the salary cap is. Otherwise it would indeed matter. You claim to care about the team...the salary cap has an enormous impact on the team. Players with big hits who aren't worth it are dead weight and detrimental.

again with the stats ..... and throw in a few more excuses for Vokoun, but when Bryz posts 1.000 and gets wins, you post about the 1 negative & downplay the opponents

I've WATCHED Vokoun play this year at least 25 games. and plenty over his career. he's no better than Bryz in my view.

Bryz HAS played 'like an NHL starting goaltender' in many games this year, but you refuse to give him credit for them [ "This is something Bryz hasn't done."] ... something he hasn't done enough, but he HAS done it.

that better ?

i know EXACTLY 'how the cap is' - and it does NOT alter my my expectations / criticism. poor play is NOT acceptable or 'more acceptable' from a lesser - compensated NHL Pro.

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02-20-2012, 09:42 PM
  #717
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again with the stats ..... and throw in a few more excuses for Vokoun, but when Bryz posts 1.000 and gets wins, you post about the 1 negative & downplay the opponents

I've WATCHED Vokoun play this year at least 25 games. and plenty over his career. he's no better than Bryz in my view.

Bryz HAS played 'like an NHL starting goaltender' in many games this year, but you refuse to give him credit for them [ "This is something Bryz hasn't done."] ... something he hasn't done enough, but he HAS done it.

better ?

i know EXACTLY 'how the cap is' - and it does NOT alter my my expectations / criticism. poor play is NOT acceptable or 'more acceptable' from a lesser - compensated NHL Pro.
If you really believe this, then you my friend are a lost cause.

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02-20-2012, 09:45 PM
  #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Vokoun struggling: 2.41 GAA, .921 %...That's a lot better than Bryz. It's not even close. Vokoun doesn't even have the offensive support Bryz has, and the Caps don't have great defensive personnel either.
I wanted Vokoun from the start too.

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02-20-2012, 09:47 PM
  #719
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Playing like a starting goaltender in individual games is completely irrelevant. Anybody can do that. The difference is doing it consistently for stretches...not 2-4 games at a time. before dropping into a slump.

You really need to quit with this 1.000 garbage too. I praised him for his Islanders shutout, but panned him for his shootout, deservedly so. And, I fail to see why I should be drooling over 8 saves made in relief, or "shutouts" made in relief. That's just not that great. One should hope that your starting goaltender can make 8 consecutive saves. And...again why does it matter how much I praise him and when? Unless you're still trying to establish this "conspiracy" thing?

I can practically hear you scraping at the bottom of the barrel at this point.

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I wanted Vokoun from the start too.
Careful, that makes you "bitter," somehow.

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02-20-2012, 11:33 PM
  #720
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i mean seriously what difference does any goalie come here make? you can have brodeur, thomas, ludquist, price, halak, come here and they will struggle just like brz because of the way the team is playing, then you want every goalie that comes here and struggles gone, that's not fair because you dont know what pressure is to a goalie or how much he wants to win,

problem here is that fans are always throwing goalies under the bus, it ruins confidence, creates pressure and struggles more. they are so blind that they dont want to see the reality that team is letting the goalies down, breakdowns, turnovers you cant have that. you think it's ok for this to happen? breakdowns and turnovers? if that's case then you understand why this team will never win anything, to keep saying new goalie, new goalie it will not solve anything, it's same problem.

flyer fans should be supporting the goalies rather than hating them because they do what they can, they have weaknesses. it's very hard positon to play, you think it's easy, then you should play goalie and see how very difficult it is, it's not easy as you think. it's alot of work.

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02-20-2012, 11:35 PM
  #721
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I have given up arguing with the Bryz defender. I have better luck banging my head against a wall

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02-20-2012, 11:37 PM
  #722
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I wanted Vokoun from the start too.
Didn't most Flyers fans? I know I was in that boat, if only because Vokoun's main intention wasn't to break the bank like Bryzgalov.

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02-20-2012, 11:39 PM
  #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i mean seriously what difference does any goalie come here make? you can have brodeur, thomas, ludquist, price, halak, come here and they will struggle just like brz because of the way the team is playing, then you want every goalie that comes here and struggles gone, that's not fair because you dont know what pressure is to a goalie or how much he wants to win,

problem here is that fans are always throwing goalies under the bus, it ruins confidence, creates pressure and struggles more. they are so blind that they dont want to see the reality that team is letting the goalies down, breakdowns, turnovers you cant have that. you think it's ok for this to happen? breakdowns and turnovers? if that's case then you understand why this team will never win anything, to keep saying new goalie, new goalie it will not solve anything, it's same problem.

flyer fans should be supporting the goalies rather than hating them because they do what they can, they have weaknesses. it's very hard positon to play, you think it's easy, then you should play goalie and see how very difficult it is, it's not easy as you think. it's alot of work.
Oh, for the love of....

Seriously? You think fans are getting on Bryz because they think goalie is an easy position to play? Get a clue, dude.

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Old
02-20-2012, 11:42 PM
  #724
Beef Invictus
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Actually, I'm pretty sure Lundqvist and Price would do absolutely fine on this team. Price is currently the saving grace of the Habs and Lundqvist has performed very well on teams worse than this Flyers team. Not sure why you chose Halak, but if it's the Halak from the 2010 playoffs then he'd be more than fine too.

I don't know how Thomas would do outside of the Bruins, he and his defense work exceptionally well together. Brodeur is old and well past his prime.

I don't think you really get how soft Bryzgalov has been this season.

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Old
02-21-2012, 06:04 AM
  #725
kimmofan44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
i mean seriously what difference does any goalie come here make? you can have brodeur, thomas, ludquist, price, halak, come here and they will struggle just like brz because of the way the team is playing, then you want every goalie that comes here and struggles gone, that's not fair because you dont know what pressure is to a goalie or how much he wants to win,

problem here is that fans are always throwing goalies under the bus, it ruins confidence, creates pressure and struggles more. they are so blind that they dont want to see the reality that team is letting the goalies down, breakdowns, turnovers you cant have that. you think it's ok for this to happen? breakdowns and turnovers? if that's case then you understand why this team will never win anything, to keep saying new goalie, new goalie it will not solve anything, it's same problem.

flyer fans should be supporting the goalies rather than hating them because they do what they can, they have weaknesses. it's very hard positon to play, you think it's easy, then you should play goalie and see how very difficult it is, it's not easy as you think. it's alot of work.
wait a minute... are you bryzgolov's agent? or *gasp* bryzgolov himself?!?! (cue dramatic 'who done it' antagonist unmasked music)

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